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Prison inmates trounce Harvard debate team

Amadeus said:
There are so many positive lessons to be drawn from this.
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Yes, that captive folks who have nothing else to do can devote incredible amounts of time to develop a skill set.
Too bad they didn't apply their selves outside of the prison setting.
 
Excon said:
Yes, that captive folks who have nothing else to do can devote incredible amounts of time to develop a skill set.
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That skill being well-educated. Keep in mind that they couldn't even acquire the appropriate books without (often) a weeks-long approval process.

Too bad they didn't apply their selves outside of the prison setting.
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Maybe they didn't have the opportunity. Clearly this is more proof that if a society invests in such people, they can match wits and keep pace with the so-called elites of society. It's also an indication that prisons would be better served investing in reforming prisoners rather than treating them like caged animals.
 
Amadeus said:
This story should be made into a movie. A feel-good movie. A group of prisoners, without access to the Internet, school a much-vaunted Harvard debate team in a debate.

https://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/10/09/inmates-trounce-harvard-debate-team

There are so many positive lessons to be drawn from this.
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There are also many differences between this experiment's environment and those advocating free college (or other higher education). The applicant pool is large yet the number accepted is small so they are carefully selected (often called creaming) - the first requirement is to break the law and give up almost all personal freedom. There are very few alternatives to (distractions from?) perfect attendance and after class study time unlike the typical social environment in a college town - we do not lock down campus and demand that all students stay inside that compound.

Step one for his experiment for successfully "turning folks around" is to remove them from society - that alone, IMHO, is a huge part of the program's success. Step two is to carefully select those that will be helped, in this case, the best of the worst - leaving out any that were not convicted of a crime in the first place and then accepting only those that show the most promise.

I would like to see this experiment done in more real world manner - randomly select from an open volunteer pool (no creaming) and then place half of them in the same "institutional" educational environment and give the other half a scholarship to the college of their choice. It may prove that removing folks from society was an important part of the program's success and that creaming is absolutely required.
 
Amadeus said:
This story should be made into a movie. A feel-good movie. A group of prisoners, without access to the Internet, school a much-vaunted Harvard debate team in a debate.

https://hereandnow.wbur.org/2015/10/09/inmates-trounce-harvard-debate-team

There are so many positive lessons to be drawn from this.
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Very nice! It is always worthwhile to discuss when a group of prisoners puts their time to the use of education and information exchange (even if through debate.) Tells me we have an opportunity here to look at what incarceration can mean for the right prisoner looking to better themselves for the chance at a more meaningful entry back into society when done fulfilling their sentence.
 
it is as some of you think there are no SMART people in prison

there are a LOT of them

some of them just thought they were smarter than the system, and got their asses caught

not every prisoner is someone who cant read, dropped out of school at 14, and a druggie gangbanger

they dont really go into who was on the team, but my guess would be some had major education
 
EdwinWillers said:
Like what - lock people up so they can be... "educated?"
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I think one lesson is probably that higher education is not all it's cracked up to be.

IMO, this is a good program -- if only from THAT standpoint. HOWEVER, until our country's employers change their mindset and HIRE these people, we will continue to waste generations of potential and continue to see very high resitivism rates. If a parolee doesn't have the opportunity to earn an honest living, how can we not understand when they return to crime?
 
MaggieD said:
I think one lesson is probably that higher education is not all it's cracked up to be.

IMO, this is a good program -- if only from THAT standpoint. HOWEVER, until our country's employers change their mindset and HIRE these people, we will continue to waste generations of potential and continue to see very high resitivism rates. If a parolee doesn't have the opportunity to earn an honest living, how can we not understand when they return to crime?
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you do realize a lot of jobs auto disqualify convicts for reasons of insurance, right?

if they cant be bonded, they cant be hired....

and no insurance company will insure a bond on them

with a lot of jobs, you have to get a license (salesman in a LOT of states)

with a felony conviction, you cant get that license

so a LOT of jobs are gone before they even start looking

cuts down opportunities....
 
Amadeus said:
Yes, that captive folks who have nothing else to do can devote incredible amounts of time to develop a skill set.
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That skill being well-educated.
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Oy vey. D'oh!
Very few and far between.
Nor does your reply negate the fact that they all the time in the world to focus on what they are learning.
It is a very different setting than that which exists outside of prison.


Amadeus said:
Clearly this is more proof that if a society invests in such people, they can match wits and keep pace with the so-called elites of society.
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No it is not evidence of any such thing.

These folks have succeeded under a set of circumstances that do not present themselves outside of that setting.
Nor does it say they are capable of doing anything other than what they did outside of that setting.


Amadeus said:
It's also an indication that prisons would be better served investing in reforming prisoners rather than treating them like caged animals.
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No. It is only an indication that there are a few which can benefit from such.

In the past there were many penal institutions that allowed college classes.
Few took advantage of the programs.

A better cost benefit would be to educate children in school, not later when they **** up and are in prison.




gdgyva said:
it is as some of you think there are no SMART people in prison

there are a LOT of them

some of them just thought they were smarter than the system, and got their asses caught

not every prisoner is someone who cant read, dropped out of school at 14, and a druggie gangbanger

they dont really go into who was on the team, but my guess would be some had major education
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There are many smart as well as creative people in prison, they just do not have the intelligence or further education to utilize it.
 
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