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It's illegal in France for supermarkets to throw away edible food.

David_N said:
Please show this process occurring in any substantial amount of time within local communities. I'll be waiting.
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And how am I to do that? Am I to google food donation process? Do you honestly think there is website out there that offers a blow by blow explanation of food logistics? No, just generalizations, like the ones evident in your link you keep posting, so that people like you can, who have no idea what you're talking about, can come onto forums like these and run your mouth off, lol.
 
KevinKohler said:
Explain how a grocery store is to PAY to ship ice cream? Eggs? Milk? Eggs can't be frozen, which means they must be kept cold through transportation, in the industry, that's called maintaining cold chain. Failure to do so makes the company liable to product loss and litigation, should someone get sick. You got any idea how much it costs to operate a refer truck? Clue one? Probably not. Hint - a lot more than a cargo van, or even a standard 800. There are certain items that are cold chain vulnerable, that is, they have a greater tendency to spoil or go bad, or get worse, with even slight variations or time and temp abuses. Which is why most food banks don't even ACCEPT those sorts of donations. Because they, too, are legally liable. To a much lesser extent, yes. But still legally liable.
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Please show how much of food waste involves cold items. Fruits/veggies/grains/canned goods/etc are all wasted. I agree, cold waste can't really be helped, stores can stop overstocking and the population as a whole needs to cut back on meat.
 
KevinKohler said:
And how am I to do that? Am I to google food donation process? Do you honestly think there is website out there that offers a blow by blow explanation of food logistics? No, just generalizations, like the ones evident in your link you keep posting, so that people like you can, who have no idea what you're talking about, can come onto forums like these and run your mouth off, lol.
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Shouldn't be hard.
Food Recovery
Plenty of groups are needing this food.
 
David_N said:
It proves that food waste is a massive problem in the first world thanks to the producers, the consumers, and the middle man. All are guilty. We need to alleviate this problem. I don't care what you do for a living, and furthermore, I'm not obliged to believe you. :shrug:
FAO -Â*News Article:Â*Cutting food waste to feed the world
http://www.fao.org/docrep/014/mb060e/mb060e00.pdf
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You're going to get absolutely NO argument from me that food waste is a MAJOR problem in this country. I don't know about other countries, but in this one, I'll wager that we darn near throw away about as much food as we actually eat. I have worked in the restaurant industry for over 10 years before transitioning to groceries. And I can tell you, I have seen more food thrown away at restaurants than I could ever possibly eat in 10 lifetimes. Tons. And tons. Grocery stores, by comparison, are much much better. They throw away a LOT of food, too, but the ones I have worked for donate more than they throw away, EXCEPT for the foods that simply can't be treated lightly, foods that will KILL people if they are even slightly time and temp abused.
 
David_N said:
Actually, supermarkets throw away perfectly edible food ALL THE TIME.
USDA ERS - ERS?s Food Loss Data Help Inform the Food Waste Discussion
First world consumers are also to blame, not just the markets.
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That article annoyed me right out of the gate. Birth rates are down even in third world countries and continuing to decrease. Many countries are only experiencing increases in population due to increases in life expediency and from immigration. As birth rates continue to decrease in third world countries and the population gets older, populations will decrease in more countries. If the trend continues the population of the world should start to decrease.
 
David_N said:
Please show how much of food waste involves cold items. Fruits/veggies/grains/canned goods/etc are all wasted. I agree, cold waste can't really be helped, stores can stop overstocking and the population as a whole needs to cut back on meat.
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USDA ERS - ERS?s Food Loss Data Help Inform the Food Waste Discussion

This had a nice break down of how much food waste involves cold chain items. It was quite a lot.

SOME fruits can be easily donated, yes. Apples, oranges, pears, some gourds...but not ALL fruits can be. Berries are especially tricky. Which, to be fair, doesn't stop my current company from trying...but we're less successful at it than we are with everything else.

Canned goods are tricky, too. Are we talking expired, or dented stuff? You take a risk of getting metal poisoning from buying food in dented cans. But expired canned goods should never be tossed, those should always be donated. Foolish to throw that away. Grains, again, depends on WHY they are considered "no good" anymore. Expiration date issue? No problem, donate away, couldn't be easier. Punctured or damaged packaging? So long as it gets on it's way quickly...some of those can get infested, which could cause the food bank to be as well.
 
David_N said:
Shouldn't be hard.
Food Recovery
Plenty of groups are needing this food.
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This fails to depict a standard food logistics break down, nor does it show any of the problems food banks face with culling out product that is too far gone even for them.
 
Beaudreaux said:
They do. At least with the food items that the FDA and USDA will allow them to do so.
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Something I'm trying to explain.


You have to be very careful with seafood, to the point of, just not donating it at all, unless it's fish fillets. And even then, it has to be frozen solid, no more than 24 hours after expiring. And the country of origin label (COOL) has to travel with the product, in case someone gets food poisoning from that item, and the FDA and CDC needs to track down the origin of that fish in order to prevent further outbreaks. Shell fish? Forget about it.

Ground meats? Unless they are a MAP (modified atmosphere product) product, no way. And even MAP products are risky to donate. E. coli is no joke. Absolutely not to FRESH ground meats...that is, hamburg ground at the individual store level. Which would probably account for the bulk of all beef waste, for most grocery stores. Because....I'll tell you a secret. When those packages of steaks or should roasts hit their 3 day (typically) expiration date? Those items BECOME ground beef.
 
KevinKohler said:
Something I'm trying to explain.


You have to be very careful with seafood, to the point of, just not donating it at all, unless it's fish fillets. And even then, it has to be frozen solid, no more than 24 hours after expiring. And the country of origin label (COOL) has to travel with the product, in case someone gets food poisoning from that item, and the FDA and CDC needs to track down the origin of that fish in order to prevent further outbreaks. Shell fish? Forget about it.

Ground meats? Unless they are a MAP (modified atmosphere product) product, no way. And even MAP products are risky to donate. E. coli is no joke. Absolutely not to FRESH ground meats...that is, hamburg ground at the individual store level. Which would probably account for the bulk of all beef waste, for most grocery stores. Because....I'll tell you a secret. When those packages of steaks or should roasts hit their 3 day (typically) expiration date? Those items BECOME ground beef.
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I had a run in with E Coli from ground beef once, and it kicked my ass - hard. Was in the hospital for days. They thought I had a kidney stone at first, until my insides decided to become outsides and they saw what I had eaten. They tested it and it came back positive. I've been shot by an AK-47 and blown up by a mortar round that hyperextended both of my knees and sent me flying 10 meters through the air bleeding from hundreds of small holes all over my body - Neither of which hurt anywhere near as bad as the E Coli.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I had a run in with E Coli from ground beef once, and it kicked my ass - hard. Was in the hospital for days. They thought I had a kidney stone at first, until my insides decided to become outsides and they saw what I had eaten. They tested it and it came back positive. I've been shot by an AK-47 and blown up by a mortar round that hyperextended both of my knees and sent me flying 10 meters through the air bleeding from hundreds of small holes all over my body - Neither of which hurt anywhere near as bad as the E Coli.
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Yikes! The next time you order a hamburger out, I hope you order it well done...
 
David_N said:
Please show this process occurring in any substantial amount of time within local communities. I'll be waiting.
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Really, I work in food distribution, you have no clue what you're talking about.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I had a run in with E Coli from ground beef once, and it kicked my ass - hard. Was in the hospital for days. They thought I had a kidney stone at first, until my insides decided to become outsides and they saw what I had eaten. They tested it and it came back positive. I've been shot by an AK-47 and blown up by a mortar round that hyperextended both of my knees and sent me flying 10 meters through the air bleeding from hundreds of small holes all over my body - Neither of which hurt anywhere near as bad as the E Coli.
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Just so you know, I "Liked" this because it was an important post, not because I'm happy it happened.
 
MaggieD said:
France is making it illegal for supermarkets to throw away edible food - The Washington Post

Awesome. They have the choice to donate it or get it in the food chain to serve as animal feed.

I LOVE THIS!

I think we'd probably need some legislation to protect supermarkets from lawsuits, but I think it's a wonderful idea. Homeless digging thru trash containers makes no sense to me. Feeding prisoners Mac-and-cheese bought and paid for by taxpayers when veggies that aren't perfect get tossed in dumpsters makes no sense to me.

Thoughts?
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I love the sentiment, but I fear over-zealous interpretation and a "zero-tolerance" mindset if a law were passed (because we're so good at doing that), giving us unintended consequences and innocent people getting caught up in stupid mindless crap. For that reason I'd rather do serious (tax, etc.) incentives that would make it hard for stores to ignore.
 
radcen said:
I love the sentiment, but I fear over-zealous interpretation and a "zero-tolerance" mindset if a law were passed (because we're so good at doing that), giving us unintended consequences and innocent people getting caught up in stupid mindless crap. For that reason I'd rather do serious (tax, etc.) incentives that would make it hard for stores to ignore.
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Great idea re tax incentives. They'd also need immunity from civil lawsuits. Some posters suggest tax breaks as you do. They already write off spoiled food as an expense, so it would have to be anther write-off. I love the whole idea.

Thanks, radcen.
 
MaggieD said:
Yikes! The next time you order a hamburger out, I hope you order it well done...
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I rarely eat hamburger out. But, I was the one that got myself sick. I was making homemade chili for my youngest sons birthday, and somehow transferred the bacteria into my mouth. I don't know if I didn't wash my hands well enough or what I did or didn't do? Luckily, I was the only one that was sick. I do, however, wash my hands like I'm performing surgery each and every time I go from meat to something else while cooking. I must wash my hands a couple dozen times now when I'm cooking hamburger or chicken.
 
MaggieD said:
Great idea re tax incentives. They'd also need immunity from civil lawsuits. Some posters suggest tax breaks as you do. They already write off spoiled food as an expense, so it would have to be anther write-off. I love the whole idea.

Thanks, radcen.
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Civil lawsuits is a problem when it comes to food. I know I've discussed on here about how me and my family used to cook and feed at the local Salvation Army and how we were told that we could no longer bring cooked food in for the residents and the homeless that come there for a meal. We have to bring Pizza now. That's the only food we can bring in now. We can cook other things there, but we would have to get insurance and a bond to cover any potential law suits and hold the Salvation Army harmless if we get sued... so we bring in 100 to 150 pizzas (depending on what the Salvation Army tells us their population is doing) and that's all we can do now.

It's pretty sad to. The folks there used to love our food. We would either do a slow cooked ham, or a slow cooked roast, with homemade hash brown casserole, green beans, homemade cornbread, a bunch of different cakes and pies with fresh brewed sweet tea and coffee. I miss it. It just isn't the same. We would go to our church and start cooking around 7:00 am and have it all ready for lunch. In the winter, we would get there early, set up the coffee and hot chocolate in the parking lot, and talk to the folks as they showed up about how their life was going and get caught up with them since the last time we were there.

We would bring the Boy Scout troop with us sometimes so they could get service hours. It made a huge impact on those boys. It never failed, that someone they knew would be in line to get food - but for the Grace of God, go I. It could pull your heart strings to see those boys get truly concerned and then get together to figure out what they could do to help other than just "handing out food."

Well, anyway... sorry for going on like this, but it just hurts how we are prevented from helping more, even though I do understand why.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I rarely eat hamburger out. But, I was the one that got myself sick. I was making homemade chili for my youngest sons birthday, and somehow transferred the bacteria into my mouth. I don't know if I didn't wash my hands well enough or what I did or didn't do? Luckily, I was the only one that was sick. I do, however, wash my hands like I'm performing surgery each and every time I go from meat to something else while cooking. I must wash my hands a couple dozen times now when I'm cooking hamburger or chicken.
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Beaudreaux, I use vinyl gloves from Walgreen's whenever I'm handling ground beef or chicken...mixing voted late, pita yo salad, any of that. They're dirt cheap and fool proof.
 
Beaudreaux said:
Civil lawsuits is a problem when it comes to food. I know I've discussed on here about how me and my family used to cook and feed at the local Salvation Army and how we were told that we could no longer bring cooked food in for the residents and the homeless that come there for a meal. We have to bring Pizza now. That's the only food we can bring in now. We can cook other things there, but we would have to get insurance and a bond to cover any potential law suits and hold the Salvation Army harmless if we get sued... so we bring in 100 to 150 pizzas (depending on what the Salvation Army tells us their population is doing) and that's all we can do now.

It's pretty sad to. The folks there used to love our food. We would either do a slow cooked ham, or a slow cooked roast, with homemade hash brown casserole, green beans, homemade cornbread, a bunch of different cakes and pies with fresh brewed sweet tea and coffee. I miss it. It just isn't the same. We would go to our church and start cooking around 7:00 am and have it all ready for lunch. In the winter, we would get there early, set up the coffee and hot chocolate in the parking lot, and talk to the folks as they showed up about how their life was going and get caught up with them since the last time we were there.

We would bring the Boy Scout troop with us sometimes so they could get service hours. It made a huge impact on those boys. It never failed, that someone they knew would be in line to get food - but for the Grace of God, go I. It could pull your heart strings to see those boys get truly concerned and then get together to figure out what they could do to help other than just "handing out food."

Well, anyway... sorry for going on like this, but it just hurts how we are prevented from helping more, even though I do understand why.
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God bless you.
 
Yep. It all comes down to civil liability. It's why restaurants don't donate their food anymore. A few do, but only to churches, because then the church becomes liable.

It's truly sad what lawyers are doing to us.
 
When I was in the scouts, we used to do a big smoke out, buy about 200 bucks of pork but to (just over 200 lbs raw), and smoke em, and do pulled pork, beans, and corn bread. Can't do that anymore. We used to be able to feed an army for less than 300 bucks.
 
All this will mean is that they will order less and frequently run out of product. Ultimately, it will be their paying customers which will suffer which is, well...normal.
 
KevinKohler said:
Again, I IMPLORE YOU, educate yourself on this. Yes, food sellers throw away a LOT of food that you or I would consider edible, instead of donating it. Those foods are edible at the time of being THROWN AWAY. How long, do you think, does it take for food designated for donation to get sorted out, scanned out, processed, frozen solid, a bill of lading created for it, then picked up, shipped, held at another facility, then shipped again, to it's final destination....and then, sorted, culled, and put out for "sale" on the floor?

Not to mention, there are a great deal of things that CAN'T be donated, like ground beef, shell fish, some dairy products, etc.
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Per the article:

In an effort to curb food waste, which accounts for roughly one-third of all food produced worldwide, France is making it illegal for supermarkets to throw away any food that is considered edible. The European country's parliament voted unanimously for the new law, which will force grocers to either donate the food to charity or make sure that it is used as animal feed.

How can you put food out for "sale", as you put it, when it's to be donated? Many grocery stores donate their left over bread, produce, nearly expired items to the local homeless shelter. How can ground beef, shell fish, some dairy products not be donated?

EMNofSeattle said:
Really, I work in food distribution, you have no clue what you're talking about.
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How is this not feasible?
 
MaggieD said:
France is making it illegal for supermarkets to throw away edible food - The Washington Post

Awesome. They have the choice to donate it or get it in the food chain to serve as animal feed.

I LOVE THIS!

I think we'd probably need some legislation to protect supermarkets from lawsuits, but I think it's a wonderful idea. Homeless digging thru trash containers makes no sense to me. Feeding prisoners Mac-and-cheese bought and paid for by taxpayers when veggies that aren't perfect get tossed in dumpsters makes no sense to me.

Thoughts?
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Great idea, but I'll bet that someone will find something bad about this.
 
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