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How important is spelling and grammar?

Viv said:
Aye...well that's only finetic where you urr. Inglish sounds totlly diffrint where a um an it's nohin lik at.
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Aye, fer point. Praps wee need difrent spelings for difrent dialekts.
 
Viv said:
I don't think as important as it used to be.

More of us are communicating internationally and we are exposed to different nationalities and languages. That will change language itself, the different influences will cause language to evolve.

Different forms of communication, mobile phones and texting, email...are all changing language.

In the world of work, being able to communicate regardless of language often means deploying simple vocabulary in order to aid comprehension.

In forums it doesn't matter much to me. Communication is more important than being a grammar nazi. I notice the errors, but people have different communication styles and even with native English speakers, there are many different varieties of English.

Some of the best ideas come from people who don't present well.
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English is the language of the world. It's the language that is used when different countries get together to negotiate or whatever, if one language is chosen.

You say that as long as one is "deploying simple vocabulary in order to aid comprehension," it's fine. But it's the RULES of grammar and punctuation that make it possible for language to "aid comprehension." You may know what you mean, but a displaced comma may mean that someone else takes it differently.

Knowing the rules of grammar and punctuation is mandatory, in order to be successful in business. If you think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs didn't correctly employ the use of grammar, think again. If you write a contract or bill of sale that could in any way be meant to mean different things, you are in trouble.

Texting and business or technical writing are two different things. There is a formal use of language, and there is the informal. Now there is also an electronic, texting form of communication. Texting uses abbreviations and slang. Very different.
 
idea_steed said:
You have a problem with the film stars and singers. Lol. Do you like Justin Bieber?
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I'm an adult. Not a 12 year old. Does that answer the question?

BTW...I excepted the entertainment field, since a person can be successful at that without communicating effectively, although that helps.
 
JumpinJack said:
I'm an adult. Not a 12 year old. Does that answer the question?

BTW...I excepted the entertainment field, since a person can be successful at that without communicating effectively, although that helps.
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You do know that 'excepted' is an adjective, not a verb, don't you? I'm just asking.
 
Andalublue said:
You do know that 'excepted' is an adjective, not a verb, don't you? I'm just asking.
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In a world in which we "prioritize" and "incentivize" and "office" and "conference" in those offices, I think the meaning--excluding--was clear.
 
JumpinJack said:
English is the language of the world. It's the language that is used when different countries get together to negotiate or whatever, if one language is chosen.

You say that as long as one is "deploying simple vocabulary in order to aid comprehension," it's fine. But it's the RULES of grammar and punctuation that make it possible for language to "aid comprehension." You may know what you mean, but a displaced comma may mean that someone else takes it differently.

Knowing the rules of grammar and punctuation is mandatory, in order to be successful in business. If you think Bill Gates or Steve Jobs didn't correctly employ the use of grammar, think again. If you write a contract or bill of sale that could in any way be meant to mean different things, you are in trouble.

Texting and business or technical writing are two different things. There is a formal use of language, and there is the informal. Now there is also an electronic, texting form of communication. Texting uses abbreviations and slang. Very different.
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If you take a look at various tech comm texts, you'll find chapters that address electronic communications. People do e-mail and text colleagues and clients (and then, of course, there are Linked In and etc.), and the same rules of courtesy and correctness apply in all professional communications irrespective of the delivery system.
 
nota bene said:
In a world in which we "prioritize" and "incentivize" and "office" and "conference" in those offices, I think the meaning--excluding--was clear.
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The meaning was clear, but the usage incorrect. No biggie, but it would have been better to use the word 'ignored', or the phrasal verb 'left out', rather than unnecessarily invent a new verb.
 
rant (seems a good place for it)

My pet-peeve is overuse of the word "like" in conversation. I have like heard the work "like" like at least like 50 times in like the last like 15 minutes... and I'm like being like conservative in my like estimate. Three ladies here behind me.

Gaaaaaaaahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! Make it stop!

Made my head hurt.

Then, if that's not enough, I get an e-mail from a client, part of which read, "It’ll like be Monday before our CAD department can get to it if that works for you."

:doh In writing, even.

/rant
 
Andalublue said:
You do know that 'excepted' is an adjective, not a verb, don't you? I'm just asking.
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Nope. It is also a verb. Webster's:

Ex`cept´ Pronunciation: ĕk`sĕpt´
v. t. 1. To take or leave out (anything) from a number or a whole as not belonging to it; to exclude; to omit.
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(Just fyi, for purists, that's "hoist." And it's a double entendre fart joke.)
 
Andalublue said:
You are quite right, and I am quite wrong. Hoisted by my own petard, it would seem. That, Sir, is very well played!
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"Hoisted by my own petard" reminds me of my grandpa. He used to say that when we were little kids. He got a kick out of the fact that we had no idea what that meant..."What's a tard?" we'd ask. Fond memories.

Thanks for acknowledging the word! I sometimes use words in an uncommon fashion, from writing in the legal field for decades (I wasn't a lawyer). The legal field uses words a little differently sometimes. I don't at all mean it to be hoity toity, but it may sometimes come off that way.
 
JumpinJack said:
"Hoisted by my own petard" reminds me of my grandpa. He used to say that when we were little kids. He got a kick out of the fact that we had no idea what that meant..."What's a tard?" we'd ask. Fond memories.
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Did you know that 'petard' comes from the French for fart? It was a small bomb that did little but make a little farty noise, and often blew up in the hands of the person throwing it or setting it. You probably did know that, didn't you?

Thanks for acknowledging the word! I sometimes use words in an uncommon fashion, from writing in the legal field for decades (I wasn't a lawyer). The legal field uses words a little differently sometimes. I don't at all mean it to be hoity toity, but it may sometimes come off that way.
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Well, it's true that I would never use 'except' as a verb. I'm not sure if it's a recent usage or archaic, but it's certainly one I've never come across. It's now joined that group of words that although I know them to be accepted, still don't feel correct. An example of another of these would be using 'impact' as a verb, but not in the sense of pressing firmly, but as in 'having an impact on something'. I know it is now accepted, and has been used since the 60s in that context, but it doesn't feel right. Or how about the use of 'behaviours'? Behaviour is a mass noun and hence shouldn't need an 's' on the end, but when you're counting forms of behaviour it does. Feels so wrong.
 
radcen said:
How important is spelling and grammar?

Critically, to maintain effective communication?

Not much, as long as the idea is conveyed?

Somewhere in between?
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I think it's very important because the way you type is an extension of how you carry yourself. Little mistakes on message boards and texts are whatever. No mistakes on resumes, formal letters, essays, important e-mails, etc. Proof-read it, then read it again. I judge people by the way they write to me. I judge people by their resumés. If your resumé has an error, I immediately toss it because you didn't care enough to proof-read. If you write like slop to me on the internet, I'm going to picture you as some morbidly obese blob with a greasy ponytail, and a crappy old nine inch nails t-shirt that's full of holes and smells like a combination of hamburger grease and feet. There are always exceptions, though. If English is your second language, no hay problema. Te entiendo. Intoxication and inebriation is also understandable. I received my education from an underfunded public school system in a small Texas town, and dropped out of high school. I didn't even finish college. If you have a complete formal education that includes a college diploma, but your grammatical skills are below my level; you have miserably failed somewhere in life and you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
Andalublue said:
Did you know that 'petard' comes from the French for fart? It was a small bomb that did little but make a little farty noise, and often blew up in the hands of the person throwing it or setting it. You probably did know that, didn't you?



Well, it's true that I would never use 'except' as a verb. I'm not sure if it's a recent usage or archaic, but it's certainly one I've never come across. It's now joined that group of words that although I know them to be accepted, still don't feel correct. An example of another of these would be using 'impact' as a verb, but not in the sense of pressing firmly, but as in 'having an impact on something'. I know it is now accepted, and has been used since the 60s in that context, but it doesn't feel right. Or how about the use of 'behaviours'? Behaviour is a mass noun and hence shouldn't need an 's' on the end, but when you're counting forms of behaviour it does. Feels so wrong.
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I didn't know that about petard....or if I did, I'd forgotten. I think I looked it up many years ago. I associate it with the captain of a ship, for some reason.

Yes, behaviorS sounds awkward, but it's correct, I guess. It's appropriate to add an S to almost all nouns, unless their plural is a different ending. I am comfortable with "impacted," as in "Your failure to pay the loan impacted my ability to pay MY loan."
 
The verbing of "impact" has infuriated me for ten years now. Think about what an "impaction" is, and then think of what you're really saying with "Yes, this has impacted my company." Filled it full of caca? I don't think so!

Back to "petard," here's a link that explains that a petard was a little bomb of sorts. Shakespeare was one funny guy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petard
 
radcen said:
It's common for your mind to gloss over something if you proofread it immediately after writing it, yet easily find the mistake if you look at it several hours later.
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Oh, actually sometimes the second I hit "Send" or "Print." I think I've actually read every word but haven't. This is why you always, always have a "fresh eye" for writing that matters.

But I was talking about the difference between what I see when I am replying to a post in this box and what the text looks like when posted. I hit "Edit" a lot.
 
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