true words

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

This details a lot of what is wrong with our society. We value the material way too much.

grip · Jul 21, 2014

I agree completely that WAY too much emphasis is placed on wealth for egotistical success, BUT until the rest of society places more meaning on things and endeavors of quality, depth and real value, we're all kind of at the mercy of the current model.

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

grip said:
I agree completely that WAY too much emphasis is placed on wealth for egotistical success, BUT until the rest of society places more meaning on things and endeavors of quality, depth and real value, we're all kind of at the mercy of the current model.

unfortunately :/

opendebate · Jul 21, 2014

tacomancer said:
This details a lot of what is wrong with our society. We value the material way too much.

Awesome awesome thread. Teach this to your kids so they don't learn it on their own too late. It's a shame we get so many messages about what we should have rather than who we should strive to be.

My X tried to pile so much shame on my son because he dropped out of college to pursue music. But I have never seen that boy more at peace or happier.

Discover who you are and live a life as close to that as you can.

MaggieD · Jul 21, 2014

grip said:
I agree completely that WAY too much emphasis is placed on wealth for egotistical success, BUT until the rest of society places more meaning on things and endeavors of quality, depth and real value, we're all kind of at the mercy of the current model.

We're at the mercy of the current model only if we allow it. I don't think way too much emphasis is placed on wealth. I think way too much emphasis is based on material possessions and lifestyle: how big a home we live in; what kind of car we drive; where we go on vacation; our wardrobe; our shoe inventory (ha!); our name brand accessories; and on and on and on.

I know plenty of people who can't buy lunch who drive great cars, live in McMansions, go on cruises, wear name-brand clothing, have an extra closet for their shoes and purses, etc., etc.

Wealth? No.

The appearance of wealth. Don't get trapped in it. It's quicksand.

Thrilla · Jul 21, 2014

that's all fine and dandy.. but the bills have to be paid.

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

opendebate said:
Awesome awesome thread. Teach this to your kids so they don't learn it on their own too late. It's a shame we get so many messages about what we should have rather than who we should strive to be.

My X tried to pile so much shame on my son because he dropped out of college to pursue music. But I have never seen that boy more at peace or happier.

Discover who you are and live a life as close to that as you can.

The choice we have raising kids is to teach them to fit in or to be like themselves. Too many people choose the easy and less valuable road of teaching them to fit in. For someone to be them hurts and is a lot of work and not everyone makes it, but those who do are the best among people as they gain the opportunity to gain wisdom. At least this is how I see it.

grip · Jul 21, 2014

MaggieD said:
We're at the mercy of the current model only if we allow it. I don't think way too much emphasis is placed on wealth. I think way too much emphasis is based on material possessions and lifestyle: how big a home we live in; what kind of car we drive; where we go on vacation; our wardrobe; our shoe inventory (ha!); our name brand accessories; and on and on and on.

I know plenty of people who can't buy lunch who drive great cars, live in McMansions, go on cruises, wear name-brand clothing, have an extra closet for their shoes and purses, etc., etc.

Wealth? No.

The appearance of wealth. Don't get trapped in it. It's quicksand.

Yeah, I remember Conway Twitty when he sold half his houses, boats, planes, cars and 'Twiitty City', because he said his stuff owned him, instead of the other way around.

KevinKohler · Jul 21, 2014

All I think when I see that toon is, the wife must make good money at her job.

Gathomas88 · Jul 21, 2014

Thrilla said:
that's all fine and dandy.. but the bills have to be paid.

Exactly. I won't deny that idealistic dreamers have their place in this world.

However, the world doesn't run off idealism alone. It is the more hard-minded, pragmatic, and ambitious among us who put in the hours and the labor necessary to keep society running.

They are arguably the only reason we have a "society" in the first place, as a matter of fact.

opendebate · Jul 21, 2014

tacomancer said:
The choice we have raising kids is to teach them to fit in or to be like themselves. Too many people choose the easy and less valuable road of teaching them to fit in. For someone to be them hurts and is a lot of work and not everyone makes it, but those who do are the best among people as they gain the opportunity to gain wisdom. At least this is how I see it.

Couldn't agree more.

PirateMk1 · Jul 21, 2014

tacomancer said:
This details a lot of what is wrong with our society. We value the material way too much.

I always liked Bill, made a fine comic strip with Calvin and Hobbes. And a wise message. I will add this. Keeping up with the Jones is a lame excuse to do something. Do what you like and do it well, if you cant for some reason do what you love. Remember the pursuit of wealth is not an ends, to of itself, but a means to an ends, money is a tool, no more no less one.

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

PirateMk1 said:
I always liked Bill, made a fine comic strip with Calvin and Hobbes.

The POV in this comic is very consistent with the content of Calvin and Hobbes

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 21, 2014

grip said:
I agree completely that WAY too much emphasis is placed on wealth for egotistical success, BUT until the rest of society places more meaning on things and endeavors of quality, depth and real value, we're all kind of at the mercy of the current model.

Eh... not really. That's the lie that keeps us all in it.

A believed that for a while... until I realized I got where I was in the first place by not following said model.

Then I realized I wasn't happy in said model, and asked myself when I suddenly started believing I had to be here, and why I would believe something so self-defeating and obviously untrue.

So I left.

Nothing exploded. My bills get paid. And oh, lookie here -- I'm happier.

We're not stuck anywhere. We simply decide not to try, or that to know our future, however bleak it might look, is better than to be uncertain.

Paxaeon · Jul 21, 2014

`

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 21, 2014

opendebate said:
Awesome awesome thread. Teach this to your kids so they don't learn it on their own too late. It's a shame we get so many messages about what we should have rather than who we should strive to be.

My X tried to pile so much shame on my son because he dropped out of college to pursue music. But I have never seen that boy more at peace or happier.

Discover who you are and live a life as close to that as you can.

It seems to be that those who are most regretful about the path they took are the ones who have the most admonishment to dish out to others who follow their dreams.

Happiness and peace should be enough for any loved one. If it's not, they're loving wrong.

Good for him.

grip · Jul 21, 2014

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Eh... not really. That's the lie that keeps us all in it.

A believed that for a while... until I realized I got where I was in the first place by not following said model.

Then I realized I wasn't happy in said model, and asked myself when I suddenly started believing I had to be here, and why I would believe something so self-defeating and obviously untrue.

So I left.

Nothing exploded. My bills get paid. And oh, lookie here -- I'm happier.

We're not stuck anywhere. We simply decide not to try, or that to know our future, however bleak it might look, is better than to be uncertain.

Good analysis. Though we're a common species, I guess we don't have to be tied to each others apron strings.

Though we can't check out completely without suffering the consequences. Society didn't follow the path to ruin for individualists sake.

If you have a smart phone, you're more of a follower than me....lol

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 21, 2014

grip said:
Good analysis. Though we're a common species, I guess we don't have to be tied to each others apron strings.

Though we can't check out completely without suffering the consequences. Society didn't follow the path to ruin for individualists sake.

If you have a smart phone, you're more of a follower than me....lol

Well, it's not necessarily about being individual; your dream can be collectivist. It's about doing what gives your life the most meaning.

The only collectivism I oppose is the type that works tirelessly to keep everyone else as miserable as they are.

grip · Jul 21, 2014

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Well, it's not necessarily about being individual; your dream can be collectivist. It's about doing what gives your life the most meaning.

The only collectivism I oppose is the type that works tirelessly to keep everyone else as miserable as they are.

I don't believe there's a conscious collectivist effort to keep people miserable. Though there are some misguided efforts to keep us grabbing for the fool's gold.

I'd love to see some real depth brought back and breathed into society from the young super hero's yet discovered. They're there.

SmokeAndMirrors · Jul 21, 2014

grip said:
I don't believe there's a conscious collectivist effort to keep people miserable. Though there are some misguided efforts to keep us grabbing for the fool's gold.

I'd love to see some real depth brought back and breathed into society from the young super hero's yet discovered. They're there.

Nah. The effort to keep others down is run by the cogs themselves who are too scared to do what would make them happy; they generally don't like to see others doing what they're too afraid to do.

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

Thrilla said:
that's all fine and dandy.. but the bills have to be paid.

For me, I've always believed the message of the comic in my heart. I grew up in a very rich area where the message of becoming a lawyer like daddy instead of enjoying life was drilled into peoples heads. I chose my own path and failed because I was not string enough.

I spent years trying to live like the world because if my own doubt and shame and I was even more miserable because I failed. So I became truly me and while few people get me, I have never been more satisfied. Plus I have money, my bills are paid and while I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do what I am truly passionate about (which would require another 8 years of college and grad school) I may do it once the kids are independent or by then my taste may change. Life is a journey and needs to be constantly reevaluated. I am glad I escaped a meaningless life. Some don't value what I value, I get that, but its not an either/or choice

People like emeril, Richard Brandon, a local friend who loves being a mechanic, or even a catholic monk are all folks who have made living their passions work for them. Its a life of uncertainty though and not all will make it, but actualization is worth it.

KevinKohler said:
All I think when I see that toon is, the wife must make good money at her job.

Gathomas88 said:
Exactly. I won't deny that idealistic dreamers have their place in this world.

However, the world doesn't run off idealism alone. It is the more hard-minded, pragmatic, and ambitious among us who put in the hours and the labor necessary to keep society running.

They are arguably the only reason we have a "society" in the first place, as a matter of fact.

Edit: the tablet put things I'm the wrong order, bleh

Thrilla · Jul 21, 2014

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Nah. The effort to keep others down is run by the cogs themselves who are too scared to do what would make them happy; they generally don't like to see others doing what they're too afraid to do.

that's a pretty cynical outlook.... are you talking about someone in particular that you know, or are you trying to indict the vast majority of society?

grip · Jul 21, 2014

SmokeAndMirrors said:
Nah. The effort to keep others down is run by the cogs themselves who are too scared to do what would make them happy; they generally don't like to see others doing what they're too afraid to do.

You sound like Gwen Stefani from "No Doubt" in "It's My Life".

Though that's true the rich don't want to see the poorer happier, it's because of greed and envy and not originality. They were too stupid to see the value in being a person who's genuinely happy being a unique and enriched person.

Nah, I've been both and wealthy is definitely funner.

Slartibartfast · Jul 21, 2014

Thrilla said:
that's a pretty cynical outlook.... are you talking about someone in particular that you know, or are you trying to indict the vast majority of society?

Its pretty true. People by and large want to cling to safety and shut out the unknown and untried out of fear. Its a sad thing which prevents them from truly experiencing life and dying just a statistic

Thrilla · Jul 21, 2014

tacomancer said:
For me, I've always believed the message of the comic in my heart. I grew up in a very rich area where the message of becoming a lawyer like daddy instead of enjoying life was drilled into peoples heads. I chose my own path and failed because I was not string enough.

I spent years trying to live like the world because if my own doubt and shame and I was even more miserable because I failed. So I became truly me and while few people get me, I have never been more satisfied. Plus I have money, my bills are paid and while I am not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do what I am truly passionate about (which would require another 8 years of college and grad school) I may do it once the kids are independent or by then my taste may change. Life is a journey and needs to be constantly reevaluated. I am glad I escaped a meaningless life. Some don't value what I value, I get that, but its not an either/or choice

People like emeril, Richard Brandon, a local friend who loves being a mechanic, or even a catholic monk are all folks who have made living their passions work for them. Its a life of uncertainty though and not all will make it, but actualization is worth it.

Edit: the tablet put things I'm the wrong order, bleh

as long as you are happy.

I have my passions, just as everyone else has...I just handle them a bit different than the idealists believe I should.
my first rule was always " don't use your passions to make money".. followed by " don't do **** you hate for money".

Passions, to me, are something to be treasured and shared... not something to be corrupted by the day to day machinations of commerce.
as a realist, I understand that the bills have to be paid... and not only that, but i also realize that I have a moral and ethical duty to provide a secure livelihood for my family.
while I don't fault folks for being differently minded, I believed I would be acting selfishly if I decided to bail out of the "rat race"and focus on what makes me happy...a family man should not sacrifice the security of his family to entertain his selfish desires, especially when it's entirely possible, and preferable, to provide for your family by day, and do what makes you happy by night.
so to me, it's not an "either/or" choice.

artistic fabrication has always been a passion of mine ( metal sculpturing, primarily).. motorcycles are a passion...and reading.
those are 3 things I would never do for a living, ever.

true words

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

opendebate

MaggieD

Thrilla

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

KevinKohler

Gathomas88

opendebate

PirateMk1

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

SmokeAndMirrors

Paxaeon

SmokeAndMirrors

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

SmokeAndMirrors

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

SmokeAndMirrors

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

Thrilla

grip

Slow 🅖 Hand

Slartibartfast

Jesus loves you.

Thrilla