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Should We Spank Our Children?

Should We Spank Our Children?

  • Total voters
    86
In my parenting methodology, spanking is typically reserved only for two matters:

1. Safety issues. Can't have children running out in the road.

2. Defiance. Parent must maintain control of the child, and cannot tolerate open defiance on serious behavioral issues.

Spanking associates a behavior with pain. Done correctly, the pain is temporary and does no lasting harm. The mental association of bad behavior with pain is a useful one that will stand them in good stead later in life, as they will have an instinctive understanding that crossing certain lines is likely to bring suffering down on themselves.


Some parents say their children are little angels who never need spanked and rarely ever disciplined.... well, good for you. Most of us are not so fortunate. :)

Some other rules:

Never in anger.
Always with control.
Should be rare.
Shouldn't be necessary much past age 8 or 9.
Generally unsuited to teenagers... other methods work better by then.
 
German guy said:
Perhaps mild spanking isn't a big issue and isn't abuse, however I am more comfortable with a "no tolerance" rule in favor of not using force towards kids,
because I feel it is a slippery slope
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and there are many people (potential parents) I don't trust being able of clearly drawing a line between mild spanking and abuse. Basically all parents who abuse their kids believe they're "just spanking" them.

As a father of 5 months, I perhaps have the worst trouble yet ahead of me, but I already see that even when your kid is still a baby, there are just moments when you're so tired and exhausted that you develop aggressions towards your kid. Any parent who claims otherwise is either lying, or has a true angel of a kid that only exist once per million. So I see how dangerous it is to use violence towards your kid just to vent your own frustration -- and that should never be a reason to spank your kid, mild or not.

Also, when the spanking becomes too hard, I see the problem that the kid takes the wrong lesson: That it is okay to physically attack weaker people to get your will and to underline your authority. All bullies I ever met in school times were people who were massively "physically educated" by their parents. Naturally, they wanted to win back their sense of self-esteem by passing on this violence on weaker pupils.

Now of course all parents are just human too, but I also think violence towards a child is a poor way of parenting -- basically it's a capitulation, meaning you're not patient or intelligent enough for better ways of parenting. Other ways of parenting perhaps require much stronger nerves and more patience, but in my observation, they also work better. Like teaching empathy. When reading a story and there is a picture of a sad face, ask your kid why that might be, what can be done to make him happy again, and relate this fictional unhappiness with events when your kid was unhappy. My 4 year old niece is so far that she'll always listen to me, just because she's afraid of disappointing me. I have the impression that when I set up a sad face, that's a worse punishment for her than anything else could be. But maybe she's just a good girl anyway, didn't have to deal with hard cases so far.

But hey, ask me about that again when my daughter is older. ;)

Also, it strikes me as weird that it should be illegal to beat your wife, even to beat your dog -- but it should be legal to beat the most fragile and valuable family members, your own offspring?

I also see the danger that spanking that goes too far creates lasting bitterness and even hate in children, and damages trust. I know of several adult people who still hold a grudge towards their parents because they were once beaten as kids.
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The whole slippery slope thing is one of the main reasons why it's best never to spank a child.
 
Goshin said:
In my parenting methodology, spanking is typically reserved only for two matters:

1. Safety issues. Can't have children running out in the road.

2. Defiance. Parent must maintain control of the child, and cannot tolerate open defiance on serious behavioral issues.

Spanking associates a behavior with pain. Done correctly, the pain is temporary and does no lasting harm. The mental association of bad behavior with pain is a useful one that will stand them in good stead later in life, as they will have an instinctive understanding that crossing certain lines is likely to bring suffering down on themselves.


Some parents say their children are little angels who never need spanked and rarely ever disciplined.... well, good for you. Most of us are not so fortunate. :)

Some other rules:

Never in anger.
Always with control.
Should be rare.
Shouldn't be necessary much past age 8 or 9.
Generally unsuited to teenagers... other methods work better by then.
Click to expand...

The world would probably be a better place if all parents who spank their kids had the same degree of self-control and level of reflection you seem to have. :)
 
German guy said:
The world would probably be a better place if all parents who spank their kids had the same degree of self-control and level of reflection you seem to have. :)
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Thank you. I take child rearing very seriously.... you only get one shot at it, and both your own child's future and whether their impact on their world will be positive or negative, depend rather heavily on their upbringing IMO.

Very serious matter, worthy of much careful thought.
 
TeleKat said:
What? You mean your child isn't a drug smoking, axe-murdering, serial rapist? Imagine that. Coercive violence is not needed to maintain a relationship with your child. :D
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Well my kid is gonna just be turning 4 soon so Im not out of the woods yet, he is currently in his terrible 3 stage and then Im gonna have a reprieve when he goes to the cutesie stage but then Im bracing for the teenager years but thats still many years away at least... :wow:
 
One thing I'd like to point out... there is a world of difference between spanking and BEATing a child.


Beating implies excessive force, violence that could inflict injury, done in an out of control manner, probably in anger.


A proper spanking should include a cool-down period for the parent (send child to their room or something), an explanation of what they did wrong and why the punishment is spanking, a specific number of "licks" carefully delivered to the buttocks in a manner that stings but does not involve substantial kinetic impact, and another talk afterward in which you explain to the child that this isn't something you WANT to do, but something you HAD to do because of their behavior.



WAY different than 'drunken parent punches kid in face'.... not the same thing at all.
 
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PoS said:
Well my kid is gonna just be turning 4 soon so Im not out of the woods yet, he is currently in his terrible 3 stage and then Im gonna have a reprieve when he goes to the cutesie stage but then Im bracing for the teenager years but thats still many years away at least... :wow:
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Well you're doing a great job thus far, PoS! I hope you continue to embrace the nonviolent approach in your child's later years. Stefan Molyneux has some good stuff up on youtube about peaceful parenting if you want to take a look.
 
I was spanked growing up. It wasn't always light and loving (my parents are only human, after all), but I wouldn't say that it was a "traumatizing" experience either. It certainly never even remotely approached the realm of "abuse."

While I would argue that it is probably preferable not to spank under most circumstances, I don't see anything wrong with the practice on any kind of intrinsic level. There is a time and a place for corporal punishment just like there is anything else in this world.

Some children might very well need those kinds of hard boundaries, and a mild bit of "toughening up" never hurt anyone.
 
Gathomas88 said:
I was spanked growing up. It wasn't always light and loving (my parents are only human, after all), but I wouldn't say that it was a "traumatizing" experience either. It certainly never even remotely approached the realm of "abuse."

While I would argue that it is probably preferable not to spank under most circumstances, I don't see anything wrong with the practice on any kind of intrinsic level. There is a time and a place for corporal punishment just like there is anything else in this world.

Some children might very well need those kinds of hard boundaries, and a mild bit of "toughening up" never hurt anyone.
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My sister raised her child with no discipline. Thought it was mean to say 'no' or punish for any reason.

Her daughter by 18 had 3 run ins with the law and 3 more with several (violence related) felonies since, 21yrs now.

She played the 'knock out game' being a 5' 11" - 170lb amazon. I asked why would she do that and she said, "it doesn't hurt to get hit in the face." I asked her had she ever been hit, and she said "what difference does that make?"

This is anecdotal and most young people aren't this angry and violent, but in my day there were even less bullies than in today's world. Bullies got beat up by the Karate Kid...lol

Goshin's guidelines are reasonable rules to go by. But even more important is a parents right to raise their child anyway they see fit, within the law.
 
Goshin said:
One thing I'd like to point out... there is a world of difference between spanking and BEATing a child.


Beating implies excessive force, violence that could inflict injury, done in an out of control manner, probably in anger.


A proper spanking should include a cool-down period for the parent (send child to their room or something), an explanation of what they did wrong and why the punishment is spanking, a specific number of "licks" carefully delivered to the buttocks in a manner that stings but does not involve substantial kinetic impact, and another talk afterward in which you explain to the child that this isn't something you WANT to do, but something you HAD to do because of their behavior.



WAY different than 'drunken parent punches kid in face'.... not the same thing at all.
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I agree with everything you've said in this thread with one exception.

My "specific number of licks" was ALWAYS one. Never more than one.

Open palm. On the butt cheeks. Never more than one.


I think in total, with two children, I maybe resorted to a spanking 5 times. Probably less.

And in fact at least two of them were due to my child insisting on running towards the road with reckless abandon.

A swat to the butt was a FAR FAR FAR better option than being run over by a car. And it worked wonderfully.
 
Goshin said:
One thing I'd like to point out... there is a world of difference between spanking and BEATing a child.


Beating implies excessive force, violence that could inflict injury, done in an out of control manner, probably in anger.


A proper spanking should include a cool-down period for the parent (send child to their room or something), an explanation of what they did wrong and why the punishment is spanking, a specific number of "licks" carefully delivered to the buttocks in a manner that stings but does not involve substantial kinetic impact, and another talk afterward in which you explain to the child that this isn't something you WANT to do, but something you HAD to do because of their behavior.



WAY different than 'drunken parent punches kid in face'.... not the same thing at all.
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Oh yeah... a reasonable exception to the rule would be when your 3yo attempts to run out into traffic.... a quick three swats on the butt to IMMEDIATELY impress on the child that this behavior is unacceptable and likely to result in pain is appropriate, but should be followed by an explanation.


Son Numbah One was bad to run out in the road as a little kid, and got his butt popped a couple times... then to cinch the point, we stopped to examine a dead dog in the road. It had been hammered by quite a few tires and was quite a mess. I pointed out that this could be HIM if he didn't stop running out in the road; told him that once you look like that, with guts hanging out, you're dead and there is no way to fix it; and concluded with "and your poor father and mother and grandparents will cry FOREVER" as the final malediction on this behavior.

A bit drastic by some folks lights, but it got the job done. :)
 
grip said:
My sister raised her child with no discipline. Thought it was mean to say 'no' or punish for any reason.

Her daughter by 18 had 3 run ins with the law and 3 more with several (violence related) felonies since, 21yrs now.

She played the 'knock out game' being a 5' 11" - 170lb amazon. I asked why would she do that and she said, "it doesn't hurt to get hit in the face." I asked her had she ever been hit, and she said "what difference does that make?"

This is anecdotal and most young people aren't this angry and violent, but in my day there were even less bullies than in today's world. Bullies got beat up by the Karate Kid...lol

Goshin's guidelines are reasonable rules to go by. But even more important is a parents right to raise their child anyway they see fit, within the law.
Click to expand...

IMO it's a misunderstanding that discipline requires violence.

I totally agree that kids need limits, that a "no" is extremely important and that sure kids need to learn discipline.

But I really hope I will find better ways to do that than spanking my child.
 
German guy said:
IMO it's a misunderstanding that discipline requires violence.

I totally agree that kids need limits, that a "no" is extremely important and that sure kids need to learn discipline.

But I really hope I will find better ways to do that than spanking my child.
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I was only spanked once and it was 3 swats to the butt of a 10yr old, scared me more than hurt. I believe the point of physical contact should be more about promoting a negative response with willful or dangerous misbehavior. Not all kids need even one spanking, but that's not nearly as bad as none at all leading to harsher consequences later from society or nature.
 
The real question is do we spank our wife's when they have been bad girls....
 
German guy said:
IMO it's a misunderstanding that discipline requires violence.

I totally agree that kids need limits, that a "no" is extremely important and that sure kids need to learn discipline.

But I really hope I will find better ways to do that than spanking my child.
Click to expand...



IMHO, GG, it depends on the child to a large degree. Some children respond better to some things than other things, and this changes as they get older.

Son Numbah One was an absolute HELLION when he was 2-3yo. Had a devil of a time with him.

By the time he was 8, spankings were no longer necessary; he had become much more self-controlled and reasonable, and also I had discovered he had become susceptible to other modes of discipline. Shaming is a powerful tool... "What would you think if someone else did that to YOU? What would your grandmother say if she heard you'd acted like this??" :)

But really, the two biggest things are Communication (essential! communication lines MUST remain open!), and establishing a relationship with the child based on love and trust. Do that and you can weather almost anything.


We got through the teenage years with a surprising minimum of trouble, thanks to communication, and to his certain faith that I loved him unconditionally and trust that I would always act in his best interest.
 
Higgins86 said:
The real question is do we spank our wife's when they have been bad girls....
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Well, if they LIKE it, you can punish them by withholding their spanking. :D
 
grip said:
I was only spanked once and it was 3 swats to the butt of a 10yr old, scared me more than hurt. I believe the point of physical contact should be more about promoting a negative response with willful or dangerous misbehavior. Not all kids need even one spanking, but that's not nearly as bad as none at all leading to harsher consequences later from society or nature.
Click to expand...

I remember when I was perhaps 2 years old, my father once lost his nerves (I just wouldn't fall asleep and constantly cry my parents out of bed time and again), and spanked me on the butt, then closed the door to my room. I don't know how hard that was, perhaps not *that* hard and I was more shocked than actually hurt.

There is no other memory from that age period I remember as vividly, and it was perhaps the most traumatic experience I ever made as a kid. I would have nightmares of this moment for years.

Perhaps I would still hold a grudge towards my father, at least on an emotional level, if he hadn't been one of the most loving, patient and supporting persons I ever met during all the rest of my childhood, which was all the more valuable for me, because I needed him to balance out the problems i had with my mother (she never physically punished me, but perhaps had/has some psychological issues -- a mild autism or dissociative disorder -- which still affects me up to today to some extent).
 
Goshin said:
IMHO, GG, it depends on the child to a large degree. Some children respond better to some things than other things, and this changes as they get older.

Son Numbah One was an absolute HELLION when he was 2-3yo. Had a devil of a time with him.

By the time he was 8, spankings were no longer necessary; he had become much more self-controlled and reasonable, and also I had discovered he had become susceptible to other modes of discipline. Shaming is a powerful tool... "What would you think if someone else did that to YOU? What would your grandmother say if she heard you'd acted like this??" :)

But really, the two biggest things are Communication (essential! communication lines MUST remain open!), and establishing a relationship with the child based on love and trust. Do that and you can weather almost anything.


We got through the teenage years with a surprising minimum of trouble, thanks to communication, and to his certain faith that I loved him unconditionally and trust that I would always act in his best interest.
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Oh, one thing I'd add to that though.... I really do believe that the spankings early on had a positive long term effect, of associated bad and numbskull behavior with pain. Today at 18, S#1 probably has a FAR easier time than most his age with pausing to consider the consequences before acting... and being more realistic about risk assessment than most his age as well, I think. JMO.
 
PoS said:
As a kid I was punched/slapped/spanked but I have never laid a hand on my child. But he knows when Im angry and I usually set him aside and talk to him about what he did wrong. So far its working. *crosses fingers*
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Punched? Yea, that's just child abuse not an honest spanking.
 
TeleKat said:
Hey polgara :2wave:

To answer your question: depends on the act in question. For example, to use your ball through the glass window story, perhaps a better approach would be to have them work to repay the damages. Obviously at age 5 you aren't going to go get a job at Burger King, but there are ways a young child can learn the value of things without it being beat into them.

The thing about parenting peacefully is that you can better nip problems in the bud. Rather than bending them over your knee, you can get to the heart of the problem and fix it nonviolently. If the problem is that they don't understand the value of windows, make them work to pay off the damage. Teach them to right their wrongs, rather than teaching them that when someone does something you don't like you should use violence and intimidation to bend them to your will.
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In my case, the thought of not being able to ride the roller coaster did the trick for me - which proves my parents were smarter than I was! I used the same approach with my kids! I don't recall ever spanking them...didn't have to! :lol:
 
Spanking =/= beating. The notion is hyperbole.

Having said that, it should only be done when all else fails, and if the particular kid is "receptive" to that form of discipline (which means you have to know your kid). Some kids get more defiant when spanked. Other kids it works well. You need to figure out your kid and do what works for them.

I have 3 kids (all adults now). Each one I had to discipline differently.
 
Goshin said:
IMHO, GG, it depends on the child to a large degree. Some children respond better to some things than other things, and this changes as they get older.

Son Numbah One was an absolute HELLION when he was 2-3yo. Had a devil of a time with him.

By the time he was 8, spankings were no longer necessary; he had become much more self-controlled and reasonable, and also I had discovered he had become susceptible to other modes of discipline. Shaming is a powerful tool... "What would you think if someone else did that to YOU? What would your grandmother say if she heard you'd acted like this??" :)

But really, the two biggest things are Communication (essential! communication lines MUST remain open!), and establishing a relationship with the child based on love and trust. Do that and you can weather almost anything.


We got through the teenage years with a surprising minimum of trouble, thanks to communication, and to his certain faith that I loved him unconditionally and trust that I would always act in his best interest.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice, Goshin! :)

I'll let you know how it works out for us over here, when I have the chance.

Maybe I'll reach a point where my idealism wears off and I'll remember good ole Goshin, and will be glad for his outline of a realistic alternative approach that apparently worked well... ;)

I'm also glad my wife is at my side. She and her siblings are among the most disciplined people with moral integrity I know (though they could learn to relax a little more), and they've never been beaten or even spanked once as kids. Maybe their mother knows something we don't know. I hope my wife will be able to recreate this success story...
 
German guy said:
I remember when I was perhaps 2 years old, my father once lost his nerves (I just wouldn't fall asleep and constantly cry my parents out of bed time and again), and spanked me on the butt, then closed the door to my room. I don't know how hard that was, perhaps not *that* hard and I was more shocked than actually hurt.

There is no other memory from that age period I remember as vividly, and it was perhaps the most traumatic experience I ever made as a kid. I would have nightmares of this moment for years.

Perhaps I would still hold a grudge towards my father, at least on an emotional level, if he hadn't been one of the most loving, patient and supporting persons I ever met during all the rest of my childhood, which was all the more valuable for me, because I needed him to balance out the problems i had with my mother (she never physically punished me, but perhaps had/has some psychological issues -- a mild autism or dissociative disorder -- which still affects me up to today to some extent).
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Perhaps not the best way to have handled that, but as you've begun to learn, a child crying the parents out of bed all night can strain the rationality of even the most even-tempered parent. :)


As I've said elsewhere before, Son Numbah One is now a young giant who quite towers over me, and his upbringing included training in the martial arts from when he could walk. Contrariwise I am now a middle aged man who is no longer in top shape, with the inevitable slowing reflexes of age. If S#1 resented how he was raised and harbored a grudge, I expect he could have his revenge if he wished.

But on the contrary, he loves me and is very good to me, and I'd pity the fool who threatened me in his presence. :) Also he says he intends to raise his own (at this point hypothetical future) children by my methods.
 
polgara said:
In my case, the thought of not being able to ride the roller coaster did the trick for me - which proves my parents were smarter than I was! I used the same approach with my kids! I don't recall ever spanking them...didn't have to! :lol:
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My point exactly. :)
 
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