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when you visit an automotive shop

what do you expect in a shop

  • cleanliness

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • qualit of work

    Votes: 5 31.3%
  • my car gets fixed

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • cleanliness and quality

    Votes: 6 37.5%
  • the lowest price

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • what are cars,are those horses with wheels?

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16
I am in the car business

Have been for 31 years now

I have worked in sales, finance, and all admin sections (corp controller current position, asst gen mgr secondary title)

I have worked for large dealer chains, and for small one shop independent dealers

My experience is anecdotal.....but i think it is fairly accurate

Retail car sales is one of the toughest businesses out there....especially in big city areas, where you have 3-4 dealerships selling the same brands within a 25 mile radius. So customer satisfaction, and service retention is what separates the winners from the losers. The sales department may sell you the first car, but the service and parts department determine whether or not you'll ever buy there again.

We pay top dollar for our technicians....we have to, as the competition in this area is fierce for qualified and certified ASE mechanics. We keep our shops clean, our guys trained and up to date, and stock parts to try to limit the times we dont have what you need right away. We provide free loaners, and we wash our customers cars after we service them.

But all of that comes at a price....and many of our customers have now began moving to the independent shops for their repairs, because they believe our prices are too high. I am sure a lot of you do the same.

We cant compete with the independent shop labor rates....nor do we want to. Our service is the best we can provide, and is tailored to the brand of car we sell. His service mechanic may be very good....maybe not. But he isnt an expert on the car you bought probably.

Just something to think about.....

Good point.

As long as the dealer is honest, which isn't always the case, it may be worth paying a bit more for service and repairs. The dealership I described lost my business for many years, and seems to have a business model of attracting customers through extensive advertising and aggressive sales techniques. I suppose that model works, as they are still in business.
 
what things are you looking for?

i want to get my car fixed for a decent price. i also look for reputation. i don't care what the shop looks like.

for example, this welding shop just saved my Jeep :

10342876_10203166123065432_2264784919978193780_n.jpg

there was a break in the frame. the guy who fixed it has been doing this since the late 1950s, and has an assistant who i believe is in his late 80s or early 90s. he was very honest with me, and even though he could have told me that i needed a new frame (which i pretty much did,) he figured out a way to rebuild and reinforce the existing one. this saved me a LOT of money. he told me if i had hit a pothole, the frame would have been gone. he also removed a lot of the rust and then rust proofed it so that it won't happen again. i got underneath and checked the work, and it is damned good and very thorough. had i have balked at the way the shop looked, it would have been a big and costly mistake.

he let me take some photos of his shop, and talked my ear off. he's a pretty cool guy.

here's the Jeep, all fixed up :

10406961_10203166120905378_8270154755363211685_n.jpg

they even washed it.
 
I am in the car business

Have been for 31 years now

I have worked in sales, finance, and all admin sections (corp controller current position, asst gen mgr secondary title)

I have worked for large dealer chains, and for small one shop independent dealers

My experience is anecdotal.....but i think it is fairly accurate

Retail car sales is one of the toughest businesses out there....especially in big city areas, where you have 3-4 dealerships selling the same brands within a 25 mile radius. So customer satisfaction, and service retention is what separates the winners from the losers. The sales department may sell you the first car, but the service and parts department determine whether or not you'll ever buy there again.

We pay top dollar for our technicians....we have to, as the competition in this area is fierce for qualified and certified ASE mechanics. We keep our shops clean, our guys trained and up to date, and stock parts to try to limit the times we dont have what you need right away. We provide free loaners, and we wash our customers cars after we service them.

But all of that comes at a price....and many of our customers have now began moving to the independent shops for their repairs, because they believe our prices are too high. I am sure a lot of you do the same.

We cant compete with the independent shop labor rates....nor do we want to. Our service is the best we can provide, and is tailored to the brand of car we sell. His service mechanic may be very good....maybe not. But he isnt an expert on the car you bought probably.

Just something to think about.....

Good service is important, unfortunatgely in my experience only the small shops give good HONEST service. Dealserships are the worst offenders (and Canadian Tire). They constantly tell me things are wrong with my car that arent wrong. I NEVER let them do anything other than what I asked them to do, and I ALWAYS know exactly what I want them to do. I am however fairly competant mechanic and really only go to dealerships if it requires tools I dont have or is in winter (I dont work on cars in winter, no garage).
2. examples both different dealerships.
I changed my CV joints on a car and brought it in 3 months later when the steering column broke (yeah I know that never breaks) They called me and said one of my CV joints was worn and needed to be changed. 3 months the thing wasnt even dirty yet so they obviously didnt even look at it. I said no and drove the car withotu any problems.
1. My timing belt broke on my tercel one december. So I brought it to the garage right next to where it died, they put one on but they got it off by a few cogs and it ran like crap so I brought it to the dealership. They called me and said compression was down in 1 cylinder and that they couldnt fix the car unless they did a top end job. I repeated to the guy (customer service not a mechanic) what was wrong with teh car and what I wanted done. He was confused so I said dont touch anything and went in person to the dealership. There the customer service guy was giving me the runaround so I asked ot speak to the mechanic. He came out and started to spout some bs. I told him exactly what was wrong (timing belt was off a couple of cogs) He kept insisting that the car could not be fixed because 1 cylinder was low on compression and he could not get the timing to work. I finally lost it and started to yell at him explaining exactly how the engine was put together and what was wrong with the car in front of all the other customers. I guess that did the trick because he sheepishly went back and did exactly what I asked. Though when he came out he said he had to up the idle to make it run as he claimed 1 cyclinder was low on compression. I said thank you ill turn it back down as soon as I get home which I did and never went back to that dealership again.
 
"Good service is important, unfortunatgely in my experience only the small shops give good HONEST service. Dealserships are the worst offenders (and Canadian Tire). They constantly tell me things are wrong with my car that arent wrong. I NEVER let them do anything other than what I asked them to do, and I ALWAYS know exactly what I want them to do. I am however fairly competant mechanic and really only go to dealerships if it requires tools I dont have or is in winter (I dont work on cars in winter, no garage).
2. examples both different dealerships.
I changed my CV joints on a car and brought it in 3 months later when the steering column broke (yeah I know that never breaks) They called me and said one of my CV joints was worn and needed to be changed. 3 months the thing wasnt even dirty yet so they obviously didnt even look at it. I said no and drove the car withotu any problems.
1. My timing belt broke on my tercel one december. So I brought it to the garage right next to where it died, they put one on but they got it off by a few cogs and it ran like crap so I brought it to the dealership. They called me and said compression was down in 1 cylinder and that they couldnt fix the car unless they did a top end job. I repeated to the guy (customer service not a mechanic) what was wrong with teh car and what I wanted done. He was confused so I said dont touch anything and went in person to the dealership. There the customer service guy was giving me the runaround so I asked ot speak to the mechanic. He came out and started to spout some bs. I told him exactly what was wrong (timing belt was off a couple of cogs) He kept insisting that the car could not be fixed because 1 cylinder was low on compression and he could not get the timing to work. I finally lost it and started to yell at him explaining exactly how the engine was put together and what was wrong with the car in front of all the other customers. I guess that did the trick because he sheepishly went back and did exactly what I asked. Though when he came out he said he had to up the idle to make it run as he claimed 1 cyclinder was low on compression. I said thank you ill turn it back down as soon as I get home which I did and never went back to that dealership again."


With competition so fierce in my area, customers are worth a lot. And me screwing over a customer to make what, an extra $ 300-500 doesnt make any sense. I am not saying it doesnt happen.....but good dealers know that is the fastest way for a store to go into bankruptcy. We spend on average of $ 400 per customer in advertising to get you into our store. The only way we ever really make money off of you, is if we can get you to be a repeat customer. Screwing you over, or you leaving with a bad taste in your mouth after doing business with us, is the last thing in the world we want.

But we dont build the cars....and once in a while, the factory sends us a clunker that comes off the line. We do our best to make things right, but sometimes it isnt possible to make the customer happy.

Business is tough enough....screwing with customers, or trying to cheat them, is the farthest thing from most dealers minds.
 
With competition so fierce in my area, customers are worth a lot. And me screwing over a customer to make what, an extra $ 300-500 doesnt make any sense. I am not saying it doesnt happen.....but good dealers know that is the fastest way for a store to go into bankruptcy. We spend on average of $ 400 per customer in advertising to get you into our store. The only way we ever really make money off of you, is if we can get you to be a repeat customer. Screwing you over, or you leaving with a bad taste in your mouth after doing business with us, is the last thing in the world we want.

But we dont build the cars....and once in a while, the factory sends us a clunker that comes off the line. We do our best to make things right, but sometimes it isnt possible to make the customer happy.

Business is tough enough....screwing with customers, or trying to cheat them, is the farthest thing from most dealers minds.

Too bad you and your dealership arent around here :(
 
well, as a former shop owner ( commercial only) and mechanic, I stick with independents...well, i might take my vehicle to a dealer if it's a warranty item or a recall.
(except for my motorcycles, they all go to the Harley dealer for everything)

i'll test out shops to see how honest they are, and i'll generally direct them in how i want things fixed.... but i have an advantage in that i already know what i'm doing, and I know the business.
I don't care what they say their labor rates are, or what they say parts will cost me.... i'm a negotiator and I know everything is up for negotiation.
I know what their costs are, i know what profit margin they have to attain to survive....I also know going in how much they are going to ask for

the notion that the majority of shops are crooked or that mechanics are thieves is a bull**** stereotype... very few of them are crooked.... and the worst ones are the bigger chains who pay **** wages to high school kids to change oil.

if they are not paying their techs at least 20 bucks an hour, I don't bother with them at all... ASE certification means little to me ( I was a master in 5 series, which isn't as impressive as it sounds) .... I shoot for the old guys with old school knowledge.
 
I would say honesty and not jerking me around would be the qualities I look for most in an automotive shop. I have had so many bad experiences with them trying to rip me off and play it off as legitimate business or not their fault, it infuriates me. Here are just a few examples that I have had over the years.

1. My truck was under warranty when my anti lock module went out. I procrastinated and waited until I had about 20 miles left before my warranty was up before I took it into the dealership. The following day they call me up and tell me that I am no longer under warranty that I was 6 miles over. Someone had driven it 26 miles... I assume to get out of fixing my module under warranty or an employee joy riding. I fought with them tooth and nail over that one. Ultimately I lost and they did not repair it. I have since learned to make them write down the mileage and sign it when I drop a car off for any reason.

2. I had taken my car up to the dealership (different car and dealership) to have my wind shield wiper engine replaced. They told me they would have to order it and would call me when it had arrived. A couple days later they call and said I could bring my car up that it should only take a few mins to repair if I wanted to wait. A half hour goes by and the receptionist tell me it will be something like $32 in labor but I would have to bring my car back in that they had ordered the wrong part and had not fixed the issue. I told them that it wasn't my fault they ordered the wrong part and that I was NOT gonna pay labor for their mistake. They told me that was standard policy to charge anytime a mechanic was working. I told them that I didnt care about their policy I was not paying. Eventually they dropped it but it still made me angry them trying to pull that crap.

3. I kept my cars immaculate, I know ever scratch, spot, ping any of my cars have ever had. I baby them and when I was younger I hand washed them weekly. Anyway I took my car in to have the break pads replaced. When I got it home I noted all 4 of my aluminum wheels had damage. It looked like they had taken my tires off and then allowed my aluminum wheels to spin to a stop on the concrete floor if you know what I mean. The high points on my wheels all had apparent abrasions. When I went back up to the shop they denied any wrong doing but I am 99.999% sure my wheels had not damage prior.

4. My best friend at the time had a hot rod that he was rebuilding. He took it into a shop to have some repair work on it. When he got it home and dismantled his carburetor he was furious. They had charged him for a new carburetor and never replaced it. He had stamped all the major parts if his engine as he put it together and low and behold his new carburetor had his initials stamped into. He took them to court and got his money back.

These are just some of the cases that were close where they shops were dishonest and not doing what I feel is right, I have many more. So ya honesty is #1 with me. Do not screw me over!
 
Car repair shops and the Vet - two places I hate going to - both have ridiculously overpriced services and both try to guilt you into buying additional parts and services that you really don't need.
 
Good reading here. As a shop owner and mechanic of 26 years it's interesting to see what people think of our line of work. Personally I hate dentists. I've had my share of bad experiences, less than optimal results, high costs and suggestions for work I felt was unnecessary. But sometimes I need a dentist, so I have one I know and trust. His business has grown over the years and he makes good money. But like most of us it took a lot of time and work to build his reputation and his client list. It's always better to have one before you need one.
 
Two estimates on a front brake job for our van, one $500, the other $195, and I've had work performed at both shops, the $500 shop milked a drive belt task so long, and charged me so much, I thought they were dairy farmers.

The $195 shop has done exhaust work in the past for me, quickly, efficiently, and timely, with no estimate overruns. Going back there even though it's not as tidy and clean as the $500 milkmen shop.
 
Two estimates on a front brake job for our van, one $500, the other $195, and I've had work performed at both shops, the $500 shop milked a drive belt task so long, and charged me so much, I thought they were dairy farmers.

The $195 shop has done exhaust work in the past for me, quickly, efficiently, and timely, with no estimate overruns. Going back there even though it's not as tidy and clean as the $500 milkmen shop.

My father in-law is convinced you have to change your brakes every 15000-20000 km`s discs and all. I keep telling him he needs to find a new garage because they are ripping him off. He wont believe me. I even showed him my pads and disks when I changed mine last year at 1500000km (they still had a fair bit of life left in them but long story behind why they wre changed).
 
My father in-law is convinced you have to change your brakes every 15000-20000 km`s discs and all. I keep telling him he needs to find a new garage because they are ripping him off. He wont believe me. I even showed him my pads and disks when I changed mine last year at 1500000km (they still had a fair bit of life left in them but long story behind why they wre changed).

Well, I have no idea of when these brakes were serviced, I did find a receipt indicating a purchase of front pads from 2004, it's a 1999 w/214,000 miles on it so, who knows.

Generally, I think if my memory is correct, front disc brakes will last about 50-60,000 miles, depending on the driver/s and depending upon how and where the vehicle is driven, and rear brakes might last 75-100,000 miles, it's like 2 sets of front to one set of rears. 2:1 ratio.

The guy I acquired the van from 2 years ago claims it has mostly highway miles on it. Also claimed it's been oil changed w/Mobil 1, so I've kept up with that part of it. Passed two emissions tests w/no problems or issues. Other stuff is seemingly coming unhinged now from wear & tear.
 
the issue i have been dealing with for 30+ years is reputation

being in the car business, a lot of people automatically assume that we are out to rip them off. I read in a poll a few years ago, that the only professions hated or trusted less, were politicians....and lawyers

there are some bad apples in every profession....our problem is that one bad apple in ours just adds to the already low position in the trust department

i havent been able to solve it.....and i have been working on the problem for over 20 years.

But let me add one last thought for you to chew on....

Can anyone tell me another business in the USA where the manufacturer's costs are available online? what the dealer pays is online?

When you go buy a dryer at Sears.....do you know what they paid GE for it? Do you know what it cost GE to make it?

Can anyone out there tell me why our business posts this information freely for it's consumers?

Like i said before, it is a tough business, and i understand the horror stories from some customers out there. I read them almost daily in my online trade sites.

There are people trying really hard to get rid of those few bad apples.....and they are slowly being weeded out of the business

But as someone said above....find someone you like and trust in the business, and then stick with them
 
he would talk about how the owners would keep bad parts to show customers and charge them for new parts to replace parts that werent bad,them make him clean old ones to make them look like they were new and replaced incase the customer actually checked.
Chances of that are thousands to one. You know how many "old" parts you would have to warehouse to be able to do that.
 
Too bad you and your dealership arent around here :(

Ever heard the term "stealership". We get $125 an hour, most local shops are around $75.00.
Other than accesses to certain scanners. One is no different that the other.
Sure we may drug test new hires, but they all came from the same talent pool as the guys working at corner garages.
 
Well, I have no idea of when these brakes were serviced, I did find a receipt indicating a purchase of front pads from 2004, it's a 1999 w/214,000 miles on it so, who knows.

Generally, I think if my memory is correct, front disc brakes will last about 50-60,000 miles, depending on the driver/s and depending upon how and where the vehicle is driven, and rear brakes might last 75-100,000 miles, it's like 2 sets of front to one set of rears. 2:1 ratio.

The guy I acquired the van from 2 years ago claims it has mostly highway miles on it. Also claimed it's been oil changed w/Mobil 1, so I've kept up with that part of it. Passed two emissions tests w/no problems or issues. Other stuff is seemingly coming unhinged now from wear & tear.

I would consider your brake life on the low side but possible. Like I said I had 150k KM so thats close to 100k miles and still didnt really need to change my brakes.
Used cars have unknown histories, I never believe someone who says they did all the proper maintenance. if they havent it is usually visible. First thing to do with any used car is change the oil, filters and plugs. regardless of when the previous owner said it was done (plugs you can actually inspect to see if needs replacing, but I just change them and look at the old plugs).
Cars, unless you are willing to spend wads of $$$ on them have a limited life, at some point it becomes uneconomical to contineu with the same vehicule.
 
Ever heard the term "stealership". We get $125 an hour, most local shops are around $75.00.
Other than accesses to certain scanners. One is no different that the other.
Sure we may drug test new hires, but they all came from the same talent pool as the guys working at corner garages.

I wouldnt go to a place charging 125$ unless they had some special knowledge/equipment that was necessary or that I wanted.
I also never bring in a vehicule without knowing exactly what is wrong with it and what I want done.
 
I wouldnt go to a place charging 125$ unless they had some special knowledge/equipment that was necessary or that I wanted.
I also never bring in a vehicule without knowing exactly what is wrong with it and what I want done.
Well without those scanners and laptops, most times there is no way to know what is wrong. Of course we also have to pay for the yearly subscriptions for the software and send people for training.
If you have a 2012 or newer truck and it just shuts off going down the road. What are you going to do?
 
$125 hourly for dealerships is about the going rate, at least in my state it is, the other shops like National Pride, Midas, and Carquests charge between $80-$100 hourly.

Yeah, I used to give cars a good going over after obtaining used, buy after working on trucks and cars both, and dealing with emissions issues, I have a pretty good ear and nose for vehicles and found it unnecessary to tune up or do anything other than an oil & filter change on this one we have now. Most vehicles are pretty straight forward nowadays, they either run well, and if they don't, it's not driveable or trips check engine lamps.

If an engine is idling rough, misfiring, and if it seems to the nose of having higher than normal HC's or CO's, one can usually tell if it'll pass the test or not.

Most off the beaten path shops in my area don't charge people for hooking up a computer to customer vehicles, I do know some dealers here still do though.

Driveability problems are sometimes hard to diagnose when there's no codes stored in a vehicle's OB computer, and the problem is intermittent.
 
the top paid tech in my shop actually doesnt do a lot of repairs

he is the top diagnostic guy i have though

and the computer code may tell you something is wrong, but there might be 3-4 different fixes for that one problem

the newer cars are so computerized, that having someone know which of those 3-4 repairs is the likeliest saves us a LOT of money and frustration

engine rebuilds, transmission rebuilds....big jobs like that rarely happen in our shop

it is almost all maintenance, and diagnostic repairs
 
$125 hourly for dealerships is about the going rate, at least in my state it is, the other shops like National Pride, Midas, and Carquests charge between $80-$100 hourly.

Yeah, I used to give cars a good going over after obtaining used, buy after working on trucks and cars both, and dealing with emissions issues, I have a pretty good ear and nose for vehicles and found it unnecessary to tune up or do anything other than an oil & filter change on this one we have now. Most vehicles are pretty straight forward nowadays, they either run well, and if they don't, it's not driveable or trips check engine lamps.

If an engine is idling rough, misfiring, and if it seems to the nose of having higher than normal HC's or CO's, one can usually tell if it'll pass the test or not.

Most off the beaten path shops in my area don't charge people for hooking up a computer to customer vehicles, I do know some dealers here still do though.

Driveability problems are sometimes hard to diagnose when there's no codes stored in a vehicle's OB computer, and the problem is intermittent.
Locally about $75.00 for a shop is normal around here. But I know it goes up the farther north you go. Then you have motorhome shops that get crazy money.
 
Well without those scanners and laptops, most times there is no way to know what is wrong. Of course we also have to pay for the yearly subscriptions for the software and send people for training.
If you have a 2012 or newer truck and it just shuts off going down the road. What are you going to do?

Dont drive a truck ;)
 
Same concept. I just use trucks because that's what I do. Same would hold true with a 2014 Accord.

I will never ever buy a Honda car again!
I understand your point the electronic stuff needs special equipment but the mechanical stuff is still mechanical (and the reason I wont touch a Honda!) You dont need a machine to tell you that the brakes need changing but you will need something if the problem is in the ABS system.
 
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