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"We cannot blame the white people any longer."

MaggieD

MaggieD

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...Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic and lower middle economic people are [not*] holding their end in this deal. In the neighborhood that most of us grew up in, parenting is not going on. In the old days, you couldn't hooky school because every drawn shade was an eye. And before your mother got off the bus and to the house, she knew exactly where you had gone, who had gone into the house, and where you got on whatever you had one and where you got it from. Parents don't know that today.

I'm talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don't know he had a pistol? And where is his father, and why don't you know where he is? And why doesn't the father show up to talk to this boy?

...You can't keep asking that God will find a way. God is tired of you (clapping and laughing). God was there when they won all those cases. 50 in a row. That's where God was because these people were doing something. And God said, “I'm going to find a way.”

We cannot blame white people...
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Bill Cosby Speech Transcript[/URL]snopes.com: Bill Cosby on Blaming White People

If this violates fair use, please forgive me. I see it limits to 13K characters. I'm assuming that's the limit. If not, I'll post in Feedback that the character limit be lowered to fair use.
 
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He, like all that preach personal responsibility and the value of education, will be told that he is blaming the "victims". You see this "logic" used nearly every time anyone dares to question simply keeping the "reward for failure" social programs going forever. The fact that things get no better after several generations of poor people getting gov't "help" makes no difference at all to the believers (the "real" black leaders) as they simply assert that not enough is being done by the gov't to fix the "root cause". Bill Cosby knows exactly what that "root cause" is yet nobody will listen since that is "racist".
 
I've had the pleasure of seeing Mr. Cosby speak. He's gotten a little bit older but he's still a tremendous speaker whether he's being comedic or serious. The problem with your idea that Bill should have gone into politics is that he wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Look at any/all of the black politicians who speak up about the same things Mr. Cosby says.... they're all considered Uncle Tom's and other unpleasant things. Until that COMMUNITY decides that they want something better for themselves, who their leaders are is really irrelevant.
 
The problem that crops up all too often with this type of thing is that people treat it as an either/or situation instead of a combination of factors (as is noted in the Snopes article). Is what Bill Cosby is saying accurate? Absolutely.

Does that mean that other factors are not involved, many of them which white people CAN affect changes to and hold responsibility for? Absolutely not.

Both "sides" have to be willing to accept responsibility for their own contributions to the problems before the problems will be fixed. Unfortunately, both "sides" seem to want to place all of the "blame" on the other side.
 
Tucker Case said:
The problem that crops up all too often with this type of thing is that people treat it as an either/or situation instead of a combination of factors (as is noted in the Snopes article). Is what Bill Cosby is saying accurate? Absolutely.

Does that mean that other factors are not involved, many of them which white people CAN affect changes to and hold responsibility for? Absolutely not.

Both "sides" have to be willing to accept responsibility for their own contributions to the problems before the problems will be fixed. Unfortunately, both "sides" seem to want to place all of the "blame" on the other side.
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If I don't want to be fixed, nobody can fix me.
 
What more should white people do?

Tucker Case said:
The problem that crops up all too often with this type of thing is that people treat it as an either/or situation instead of a combination of factors (as is noted in the Snopes article). Is what Bill Cosby is saying accurate? Absolutely.

Does that mean that other factors are not involved, many of them which white people CAN affect changes to and hold responsibility for? Absolutely not.

Both "sides" have to be willing to accept responsibility for their own contributions to the problems before the problems will be fixed. Unfortunately, both "sides" seem to want to place all of the "blame" on the other side.
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JC Callender said:
What more should white people do?
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Exactly. We give them schools with excellent (for the most part) teachers. We police their neighborhoods. We try to clean things up. Yet they give sanctuary to these bangers. "We're afraid" only goes so far. Grow a backbone.
 
Tucker Case said:
The problem that crops up all too often with this type of thing is that people treat it as an either/or situation instead of a combination of factors (as is noted in the Snopes article). Is what Bill Cosby is saying accurate? Absolutely.

Does that mean that other factors are not involved, many of them which white people CAN affect changes to and hold responsibility for? Absolutely not.

Both "sides" have to be willing to accept responsibility for their own contributions to the problems before the problems will be fixed. Unfortunately, both "sides" seem to want to place all of the "blame" on the other side.
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TC, I don't think anyone, especially Mr. Cosby is saying this is totally a one-sided issue. From what I've read of his position on this topic, he feels that the "white people" have already reached out to give these individuals a "hand up" and that they have chosen not to reach out and take that hand. I know that is most definitely MY position on this. Even a heartless and uncaring bastard such as myself won't say that there aren't people out there who need and deserve help. The problem comes when people who are capable of helping themselves expect it all to be done for them instead of with and by them.

It's a slightly different ethnic community, but I see this stuff all the time through my fiance's family. In one case four fully capable adults (18+) living in a two bedroom apartment with a one and three year old. Within the next four months two more kids (6 and 8 years old) will be joining them. None of the adults has a job and none are seriously looking for work. They would rather live off of the miniscule amount of government aid they get and by welching off of family members.
 
Is it a perpetuation of bad habits, cultural maladaptation and institutional racism?
 
Fisher said:
Okay, Lindsay Lohan. You go girl.
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You make fun of it, but Maggie is absolutely correct. Many of these people don't want to see these things fixed because their lifestyle would be destroyed. They might have to actually start doing some things for themselves rather than expecting others to do it for them. It's not just the black community either. It's any number of the minority/entitlement communities that have this mentality.
 
MaggieD said:
We give them schools with excellent (for the most part) teachers. We police their neighborhoods. We try to clean things up.
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Maggie, there are plenty of black cops, black teachers, and social workers. Saying just "We" do that is pretty misleading.
 
We had a guy come in for an interview--white guy--for a quality engineer position. He had earlobe holes the size of quarters. He was wearing long sleeves and a button up shirt with a collar, but we could still see tattoos on his neck and on the tops of both hands. No way would we hire this guy for a position as sensitive as quality engineer, someone who has to interact with our customers on a daily basis, often for no other reason than assuring them that we are a tightly run, clean operation.

Point--personal responsibility includes giving up some personal freedom. White people who want good jobs can't look like a Hell's Angel Biker, and Black people should not show up for interviews sporting grillz and speaking in what basically amounts to broken-English--regardless how cool either feels they have a right to look and act. Good jobs require personal sacrifice.
 
I believe that blacks were definitely at a huge disadvantage for a long time in this country, but I would say that we've come a long way in making things equal, sometimes more than equal. I live in Metro Detroit, and Detroit proper is a perfect example of people who elect politicians who create a xenophobia towards whites and blacks (Uncle Toms, of course) and other races, groups, and outsiders in general in order to instill a strong sense of victimhood, which is an easy excuse for whatever responsibilities in life they want to shed in favor of crime, entitlements, broken families, etc....

MaggieD said:
Exactly. We give them schools with excellent (for the most part) teachers. We police their neighborhoods. We try to clean things up. Yet they give sanctuary to these bangers. "We're afraid" only goes so far. Grow a backbone.
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Tigger said:
You make fun of it, but Maggie is absolutely correct. Many of these people don't want to see these things fixed because their lifestyle would be destroyed. They might have to actually start doing some things for themselves rather than expecting others to do it for them. It's not just the black community either. It's any number of the minority/entitlement communities that have this mentality.
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No I am making fun of Lindsay Lohan.
 
MaggieD said:
Exactly. We give them schools with excellent (for the most part) teachers. We police their neighborhoods. We try to clean things up. Yet they give sanctuary to these bangers. "We're afraid" only goes so far. Grow a backbone.
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We do? I thought it was the teachers union's fault.

So much of what he said is really just poor neighborhood stuff. Could have said some of the same things about Italian ghettos in New York in 1913. And it seems like his version of inner cities is stuck in 1978. When do you think the last time he was down there was? He sure as hell doesn't live there anymore. Up here at least, these neighborhoods have stores and gas stations, etc. The problems are out in the endless rows of generic apartments in the 'burbs.

Now he does have a point about valuing education. And if the family doesn't value it, there's very little a teacher can do (union or not). But the problem is that the successes tend not to go back. The black doctors don't open clinics and live in these neighborhoods, they live out on the Country Club with the white doctors. The residents don't see that if they get a good education they can do better, because nobody that they see fits that bill. So I think a lot of that blame lies on the people - like Mr. Cosby himself - who get successful and move out.
 
JC Callender said:
What more should white people do?
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Depends on the individual, but the first step I perosnally feel that anyone should take would be trying to gain some understanding of the African-American culture and how it differs from the dominant "white" American culture and how "we" (meaning "white people" both collectively and individually) make assumptions and judgements that are based on our dominant "white" American culture which might be oppressive to people who are not part of the dominant culture (not just African-Americans).

Without some sort of empathetic understanding, people will continue to contribute to the problems obliviously. One thing I like to do to illustrate the disparities people have between their assumptions about race and the reality when it comes to race is to ask the kind of people who tend to talk about their "black friends" as though they act as a pseudo-shield that protects them from being accused of "racism" to talk to those "black friends" in an open and honest fashion about things which they might do which the "black friend" finds to be annoying, offensive, or insensitive (like, perhaps, deploying the existence of said black friend as a pseudo-shield against accusations of racism, for example).

I feel that without any context of the other person's experience, we end up talking at each other rather than to each other.
 
Tigger said:
TC, I don't think anyone, especially Mr. Cosby is saying this is totally a one-sided issue.
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I have certainly encountered people who think otherwise. And it's not about white people reaching out to give a hand up. It's about white people increasing awareness of the less obvious times that there is a hand holding people back.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
Maggie, there are plenty of black cops, black teachers, and social workers. Saying just "We" do that is pretty misleading.
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Well, only because you took the word "we" to mean white people. My "we" meant society as a whole. ;)
 
MaggieD said:
Exactly. We give them schools with excellent (for the most part) teachers. We police their neighborhoods. We try to clean things up.
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Do you even realize that the way you are talking gives the impression that "they" are inferior to whites? You might not intend it to be so, but the impression is there. We, the benevolent white people that we are, give them so much.
 
MaggieD said:
Well, only because you took the word "we" to mean white people. My "we" meant society as a whole. ;)
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So now you are saying that black people are not part of "society as a whole". Whether you intend to do so or not, that's what you just did.
 
I think the average white person has had tons of opportunities through media to understand blacks, who for the most part aren't shy about letting people know who they are. How many movies and songs have come out about not only black life, but the inner city aspect as well. Blacks, for their relative population in our country, have a massive presence in our media.

Tucker Case said:
Depends on the individual, but the first step I perosnally feel that anyone should take would be trying to gain some understanding of the African-American culture and how it differs from the dominant "white" American culture and how "we" (meaning "white people" both collectively and individually) make assumptions and judgements that are based on our dominant "white" American culture which might be oppressive to people who are not part of the dominant culture (not just African-Americans).

Without some sort of empathetic understanding, people will continue to contribute to the problems obliviously. One thing I like to do to illustrate the disparities people have between their assumptions about race and the reality when it comes to race is to ask the kind of people who tend to talk about their "black friends" as though they act as a pseudo-shield that protects them from being accused of "racism" to talk to those "black friends" in an open and honest fashion about things which they might do which the "black friend" finds to be annoying, offensive, or insensitive (like, perhaps, deploying the existence of said black friend as a pseudo-shield against accusations of racism, for example).

I feel that without any context of the other person's experience, we end up talking at each other rather than to each other.
Click to expand...
 
rocket88 said:
We do? I thought it was the teachers union's fault.

So much of what he said is really just poor neighborhood stuff. Could have said some of the same things about Italian ghettos in New York in 1913. And it seems like his version of inner cities is stuck in 1978. When do you think the last time he was down there was? He sure as hell doesn't live there anymore. Up here at least, these neighborhoods have stores and gas stations, etc. The problems are out in the endless rows of generic apartments in the 'burbs.

Now he does have a point about valuing education. And if the family doesn't value it, there's very little a teacher can do (union or not). But the problem is that the successes tend not to go back. The black doctors don't open clinics and live in these neighborhoods, they live out on the Country Club with the white doctors. The residents don't see that if they get a good education they can do better, because nobody that they see fits that bill. So I think a lot of that blame lies on the people - like Mr. Cosby himself - who get successful and move out.
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To somehow think that successful blacks should live in ghettos as role models is ridiculous. Why would anyone in their right minds live in these neighborhoods? I always say that my mom would have been homeless under a bridge before she'd have lived with me in such a neighborhood. She'd have worked three jobs. She'd have done whatever it took for her daughter to be safe.

The blame doesn't lie on the people who move out. It lies on the people who choose to stay.

Tucker Case said:
I have certainly encountered people who think otherwise. And it's not about white people reaching out to give a hand up. It's about white people increasing awareness of the less obvious times that there is a hand holding people back.
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What more can society do, Tucker.What are we not doing that will make a difference? Be specific, if you wouldn't mind.
 
Tucker Case said:
So now you are saying that black people are not part of "society as a whole". Whether you intend to do so or not, that's what you just did.
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No, I didn't. I wondered how long it would take for racism to worm it's little way into this thread. Thanks for making my wait a short one.
 
Tucker Case said:
Do you even realize that the way you are talking gives the impression that "they" are inferior to whites? You might not intend it to be so, but the impression is there. We, the benevolent white people that we are, give them so much.
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Tucker, please stop it. "We" is society as a whole. If you choose to color it white, I'm sorry for you -- because you are part of the problem.
 
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