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A question for the men of DP

megaprogman said:
So you WANT a man to treat you like a lesser being?
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It's showing some consideration and bit of affectionate attention. Women do a thousand similar small things for men, but it's not called out for what it is. I'm sure your wife does them, but you observe them as affection ad not chivalry. There is no female word for it. :)
 
Gina said:
It's showing some consideration and bit of loving attention. Women do a thousand similar small things for men, but it's not called out for what it is. I'm sure your wife does them, but you observe them as affection. :)
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My point is that there are different ways to do it and I prefer to do it in such a way where they are treated like an equal and an adult.
 
megaprogman said:
Considerate, loving, gentle, and caring all means caring for one's feelings, needs, wants, etc. When my wife is down, I give her a hug, chocolate, alone time, sex, whatever I think best will lift her spirits (depends on why she is down). I celebrate her from time to time with something nice. I make sure to include her feelings, needs, and desires when I make decisions (I tend to be in charge of the marriage for some odd reason even though I never sought this authority, something I still have not figured out how this came to pass), etc. It does not mean I baby her. I don't lead her around, I don't pretend she needs me for protection, except in circumstances in which she does, stuff like that.
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All people are different. She obviously doesn't want the opening of doors, etc. from you or she'd probably say something. She feels love through other ways (as you described). But because I enjoy a guy holding a door for me doesn't mean that he thinks I'm weak or "less" than him. It's just another way to show love.
 
megaprogman said:
My point is that there are different ways to do it and I prefer to do it in such a way where they are treated like an equal and an adult.
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But does your wife not do similar things and yet you perceive that you are still an equal partner and an adult male?
 
megaprogman said:
My wife would consider this quaint, unless her hands were full or something, I have offered this in the past and it just annoys her. :shrug:



I don't see how this matters. My wife doesn't care
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To each his/her own. Also, y'all been married a while and you tend to get pragmatic about such things after a year or two. :)

But still, I think most women would appreciate a little chivalrous behavior on "date night" at least, even if it isn't practical to act that way at home 24/7.






I don't know. I guess I prefer a woman who can hold her own in this world and bring some value to the table. Women are not objects to be handled lightly, lest they break, since most women like that are high maintenance anyway and that's no fun.
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I don't see it that way. I don't generally go for the fragile high-maintenance types either... if we go hiking I expect her to carry a backpack and rough it just like the rest of us.

For formal or semi-formal situations, or "date night" or something, though, I just see it as courteous behavior and a way of saying to her with your actions, "you are special to me".

Not, "you are a lesser being made of breakable glass".
 
megaprogman said:
My point is that there are different ways to do it and I prefer to do it in such a way where they are treated like an equal and an adult.
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Do you tell her to not make you dinner because you're not a child and can make your own dinner?
 
Goshin said:
For formal or semi-formal situations, or "date night" or something, though, I just see it as courteous behavior and a way of saying to her with your actions, "you are special to me".

Not, "you are a lesser being made of breakable glass".
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Yes, this.
 
Gina said:
But does your wife not do similar things and yet you perceive that you are still an equal partner and an adult male?
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We do things for each other all the time. I have gone on a diet coke run in the middle of the night more than once for example. What is your point?
 
Josie said:
Do you tell her to not make you dinner because you're not a child and can make your own dinner?
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Her making me dinner makes her happy. I am good either way.
 
megaprogman said:
We do things for each other all the time. I have gone on a diet coke run in the middle of the night more than once for example. What is your point?
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Why can't she get her own Diet Coke? :2razz:

I think it's kinda weird that you do things like that for her and don't think of it as "she's the lesser being", but then in the same breath you think a man opening a door for a woman is treating her like a lesser being. So all the things that you do for your wife are normal and good and yay equality!....but anything you don't do is from the Dark Ages and makes women look/feel weak. Right?
 
megaprogman said:
Her making me dinner makes her happy. I am good either way.
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And my guy opening the car door for me makes him feel good. :)

Your wife making you dinner doesn't mean she thinks you can't do it yourself and you're just a fragile little child. My boyfriend opening the door for me doesn't mean he thinks I'm that either. It's what we do to make each other feel good. It's what we do that makes each other feel loved.
 
Josie said:
Why can't she get her own Diet Coke? :2razz:

I think it's kinda weird that you do things like that for her and don't think of it as "she's the lesser being", but then in the same breath you think a man opening a door for a woman is treating her like a lesser being. So all the things that you do for your wife are normal and good and yay equality!....but anything you don't do is from the Dark Ages and makes women look/feel weak. Right?
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You do realize there is a large distinction between being a nice person and good partner in a relationship and actions specifically directed at the idea that women need protection, help, and other such nonsense, right?

You are trying to equate two things that have little to do with each other.
 
megaprogman said:
We do things for each other all the time. I have gone on a diet coke run in the middle of the night more than once for example. What is your point?
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That's it! That's chivalry right there! :) She could have gotten the coke for herself, or done without. But you, being her partner, thought you should do it for her. :)

I'm not picking on you mega. I'm just pointing out that doing those little things like Josie has mentioned are not demeaning to us, unless we say otherwise, I guess. :)

I'm far from being a high maintenance, fragile orchid myself. I do lots things, like those suggested in Goshin's last post up there. But these little niceties, are just subtle considerations, nothing more. And if a door is missed, or I hold the door because he's carrying stuff for me, it's no big deal. :)
 
Gina said:
That's it! That's chivalry right there! :) She could have gotten the coke for herself, or done without. But you, being her partner, thought you should do it for her. :)

I'm not picking on you mega. I'm just pointing out that doing those little things like Josie has mentioned are not demeaning to us, unless we say otherwise, I guess. :)

I'm far from being a high maintenance, fragile orchid myself. I do lots things, like those suggested in Goshin's last post up there. But these little niceties, are just subtle considerations, nothing more. And if a door is missed, or I hold the door because he's carrying stuff for me, it's no big deal. :)
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No, that's being a caring husband which is something entirely different.
 
megaprogman said:
No, that's being a caring husband which is something entirely different.
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I'm really kind of baffled by your thought process here. I'm mildly curious as to how you came to the conclusions that you're at...

One question: I like having a guy open the car door for me to get in. In your opinion, do you think that I think of myself as a "lesser being"?
 
megaprogman said:
No, that's being a caring husband which is something entirely different.
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There is precious little difference between chivalry and being a caring husband/partner, if at all. She could have been a self-sufficient woman and got in the car to drive herself to the store. You don't consider you were treating her like a child, yet that is what you would do for a child. To use your earlier comparison.

I find it funny I'm defending chivalry when I am a dyed in the wool equality kind of person. I came of age during that time. I don't see a problem with holding a door etc...as long as it's a nice thing to do and not that I can't do it for myself.
 
Gina said:
There is precious little difference between chivalry and being a caring husband/partner, if at all. She could have been a self-sufficient woman and got in the car to drive herself to the store. You don't consider you were treating her like a child, yet that is what you would do for a child. To use your earlier comparison.

I find it funny I'm defending chivalry when I am a dyed in the wool equality kind of person. I came of age during that time. I don't see a problem with holding a door etc...as long as it's a nice thing to do and not that I can't do it for myself.
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Josie said:
I'm really kind of baffled by your thought process here. I'm mildly curious as to how you came to the conclusions that you're at...

One question: I like having a guy open the car door for me to get in. In your opinion, do you think that I think of myself as a "lesser being"?
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In that specific case, the lack of caffeine was giving my wife a splitting headache and she was in no condition to drive. Plus it made her smile.

The difference between it is, in the chivalry code, a woman would never be expected to hold the door for a man, order for a man, take her coat off if the man is cold, etc. There is no reciprocation and thus no equality.
 
I do all the old school gentleman stuff. Read up on it from a book written in 1897. "The National Guide to Business Form and Social Ediquette." It isn't just opening doors, but which side to walk on, who goes up and down the stairs first, walks closest to the street, which side is she on, to stand when a woman enters the room, get her chair, she sits first, orders first, first bite of food, pull her seat belt across for her, carry her over a deep puddle...

Part of the logic of it is to show her that, towards her, towards all women, that I am a safe and civilized man. I may or may not be otherwise, but I am towards her.

And, as has been noted elsewhere, some times go over the top in defensiveness and intolerance of insults against her.

She likes it all. She does her half of it. She wants to. However, none of this has to do with Tigger-like domination. Actually, that also is an intolerable collection of concepts in old school rules of gentlemanship - which is essentially to show reverence towards women not as the weaker sex, but as the fairer sex. There is a difference.

I mean really. My wife went thru pregnancy and labor for our child. She's doing it again. What could I ever do for her to possibly come close to that?
 
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megaprogman said:
The difference between it is, in the chivalry code, a woman would never be expected to hold the door for a man, order for a man, take her coat off if the man is cold, etc. There is no reciprocation and thus no equality.
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You don't have to do the exact same thing for each other 24/7 in order to be "equal".
 
joko104 said:
I do all the old school gentleman stuff. Read up on it from a book written in 1897. "The National Guide to Business Form and Social Ediquette." It isn't just opening doors, but which side to walk on, who goes up and down the stairs first, walks closest to the street, which side is she on, to stand when a woman enters the room, get her chair, she sits first, orders first, first bite of food...

And, as has been noted elsewhere, some times go over the top in defensiveness and intolerance of insults against her.

And she likes it all, and does her half of it. However, none of this has to do with Tigger-like domination. Actually, that also is an intolerable collection of concepts in old school rules of gentlemanship - which is essentially to show reverence towards women not as the weaker sex, but as the fairer sex. There is a difference.

I mean really. My wife went thru pregnancy and labor for our child. She's doing it again. What, possibly, could I ever do for her to possibly come close to that?
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I like to let my wife go up the stairs first so I can stare at her ass. She knows this and enjoys that I enjoy it. :)
 
joko104 said:
I mean really. My wife went thru pregnancy and labor for our child. She's doing it again. What, possibly, could I ever do for her to possibly come close to that?
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Congrats, man. For real.
 
megaprogman said:
I like to let my wife go up the stairs first so I can stare at her ass. She knows this and enjoys that I enjoy it. :)
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Does she let you go up the stairs first so she can stare at your ass? If not.............. INEQUALITY!!! :2razz:
 
Josie said:
You don't have to do the exact same thing for each other 24/7 in order to be "equal".
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Not the same thing. I hate diet coke (I need to think of a better example, but she just ran out of diet coke :lol:) but if I am in a bad mood, she will do things to cheer me up, etc. Each of us having their own preferences.
 
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