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ObamaCare to reduce workforce by 2 million jobs' worth of hours, CBO says

Renae said:
Of course you don't see it. Does employer mandate mean anything to you? It kicks in fully with no recourse. Of course you may not realize how that is going to change a lot.
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It's already kicked in, and no one noticed since 98% of all employers who are required to offer insurance already did.
 
imagep said:
"The employer shared responsibility provisions are first effective on January 1, 2015"

That has been effective for nearly a year.

Again, what parts haven't been implimented, and how are those parts going to make much of a difference?
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And you missed the rest of it. Shocking.
 
imagep said:
"The employer shared responsibility provisions are first effective on January 1, 2015"

That has been effective for nearly a year.

Again, what parts haven't been implimented, and how are those parts going to make much of a difference?
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The cadillac tax is a big one. It gradually lowers what is an acceptable level of tax free employer provided health care benefits (in all forms). Since the cost of medical care is rising much faster than the CPI that means that with each passing year that cadillac tax applies to more and more folks.
 
I've had a lot of people to tell me that Obamacare hasn't started yet.

I suspect the reason that they don't realize that most of the provisions started two years ago, and more started a year ago, is because they have been expecting that when Obamacare kicks in, the economy will collapse, all employers will stop offering insurance, and all doctors will retire. But the reality is that 99% of Obamacare is already in place, and no one really noticed anything changing.

A few people who had pre-existing conditions were able to get insurance, a few went on medicade or got the Obamacare subsidies, but for most of us, we already had insurance, and it keeps increasing a little each year like it always has, or either we still can't afford insurance so we don't have it. Same ole issues, just a different day.
 
Renae said:
And you missed the rest of it. Shocking.
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Well since I'm obviously too stupid to see the rest of us, why can't you explain it.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The cadillac tax is a big one. It gradually lowers what is an acceptable level of tax free employer provided health care benefits (in all forms). Since the cost of medical care is rising much faster than the CPI that means that with each passing year that cadillac tax applies to more and more folks.
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OK, that sounds legit. So how many people does the cadillac tax effect now, and what difference will it really make? It's a tax on the insurance that upper income people have, you don't think they can afford it? We are going to have hords of rich people who go insurance-less?
 
imagep said:
It's already kicked in, and no one noticed since 98% of all employers who are required to offer insurance already did.
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No it hasnt. There are assitence with transition programs payouts to lower impsct and exemptions out the wazoo still in place. all that help expires in 2017
 
Renae said:
No it hasnt. There are assitence with transition programs payouts to lower impsct and exemptions out the wazoo still in place. all that help expires in 2017
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So? What percent of our population will be effected? Three percent? And how much difference will it really make? Are you still looking for our economy to collapse, for all employers to drop their insurance, and for all doctors to retire?
 
imagep said:
OK, that sounds legit. So how many people does the cadillac tax effect now, and what difference will it really make? It's a tax on the insurance that upper income people have, you don't think they can afford it? We are going to have hords of rich people who go insurance-less?
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Nope - it is not a tax on upper income folks it is a tax on employer provided medical care benefits (in any form) which exceed $X annually. That $X annual figure rises automagically based on the CPI while the cost of medical care rises much faster. It does not start until 2018 and lots of folks in both parties are trying to get rid of of it. Its effect will be to lower employer provided medical care benefits (relative to their actual cost) annually forcing more folks to rely on other means (UHC?) of paying for medical care. It has no relationship to an employee's salary at all.

The so-called Cadillac tax is an excise tax on high cost health plans offered by employers. Beginning in 2018, health plans that cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family plan will be subject to the tax, which is 40% of the amount that exceeds those thresholds. For example, if a family plan costs $30,000, the employer that offers the plan would owe 40% of $2,500 ($30,000 minus $27,500), or $1,000 for each family it covers under that plan.

The tax was intended to be a disincentive for employers to provide overly rich health benefits, and the cost of the health plan is one measure of the level of benefits. However, some plans may cost more because they cover people with higher-than-average health care costs, including retirees, older workers and workers in high-risk occupations. The cost thresholds for plans that cover a significant number of individuals in any of those categories are higher.
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Health Reform FAQs | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Nope - it is not a tax on upper income folks it is a tax on employer provided medical care benefits (in any form) which exceed $X annually. That $X annual figure rises automagically based on the CPI while the cost of medical care rises much faster. It does not start until 2018 and lots of folks in both parties are trying to get rid of of it. Its effect will be to lower employer provided medical care benefits (relative to their actual cost) annually forcing more folks to rely on other means (UHC?) of paying for medical care. It has no relationship to an employee's salary at all.
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I would think that corporate executives and only other really high paid employees get cadillac plans, if so there would be some sort of correlation between income and the tax paid in cadillac plans (even if it's the employer paying for that). Worst comes to worse, some employers start providing their executives with the same cheap plan that their regular workers get. I don't think that anyone would notice the difference.
 
imagep said:
Your fooling yourself if you think that the dire predictions of far right wing talking heads are going to come true. It was rhetoric, nothing more.
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That's your view of it, I have a different view of it. The ACA IMHO is an unmitigated disaster that will have long lasting negative impacts on the US Economy, employment and ultimately be seen as a reckless boondoggle.
 
Renae said:
ObamaCare to reduce workforce by 2 million jobs' worth of hours, CBO says | Fox News

There's a shock, a law written by people that never "worked", never ran a business being bad for workers and business. Shocked I tell you I'm so shocked.
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Of course you do realize that much of this shrinkage is from people that do not NEED to work in order to have healthcare. This is actually GOOD for workers.

From your article:

"....the CBO predicts that a contributing factor to the shrinkage in the labor force will be the consequence of insurance subsidies that will make it easier for some people to stop working, or work less, without losing health insurance...


“Some people would choose to work fewer hours; others would leave the labor force entirely or remain unemployed for longer than they otherwise would,” the report says...."

Obamacare ends the indentured servitude that existed for many that required individuals to continue to work for a specific employer lest they lose health insurance (particularly those with a pre-existing condition that once they left the employer might not ever be insured again)

Renae said:
That's your view of it, I have a different view of it. The ACA IMHO is an unmitigated disaster that will have long lasting negative impacts on the US Economy, employment and ultimately be seen as a reckless boondoggle.
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Agreed. We need universal healthcare to fix our broken healthcare system, the least efficient in the 1st world.
 
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imagep said:
I would think that corporate executives and only other really high paid employees get cadillac plans,
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Just FYI, you are wrong.
 
upsideguy said:
Of course you do realize that much of this shrinkage is from people that do not NEED to work in order to have healthcare. This is actually GOOD for workers.

From your article:

"....the CBO predicts that a contributing factor to the shrinkage in the labor force will be the consequence of insurance subsidies that will make it easier for some people to stop working, or work less, without losing health insurance...


“Some people would choose to work fewer hours; others would leave the labor force entirely or remain unemployed for longer than they otherwise would,” the report says...."

Obamacare ends the indentured servitude that existed for many that required individuals to continue to work for a specific employer lest they lose health insurance (particularly those with a pre-existing condition that once they left the employer might not ever be insured again)



Agreed. We need universal healthcare to fix our broken healthcare system, the least efficient in the 1st world.
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Hell no to UHC.

I don't work for healthcare, I work to have more then that. I'm not satisfied with just the minimum in life, it's sad you think that's a life goal IMHO.
 
roughdraft274 said:
I'm not sure how you're reply fits in to my question. Buck made a very exact claim and I asked him where in this study agrees with him. You're merely repeating kind of sort of what he said if I understand you correctly.
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Thats a quote from the study.
 
Renae said:
That's your view of it, I have a different view of it. The ACA IMHO is an unmitigated disaster that will have long lasting negative impacts on the US Economy, employment and ultimately be seen as a reckless boondoggle.
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"ultimately seen". er uh Renae, according to non stop conservative narratives we were supposed to have seen it already. So not only has it not happened, Obamacare is wildly successful based on those very narratives. Just like you "fretting" about the employer mandate, its already in effect and nothing conservatives predicted happened. You just keep hoping.
 
Vern said:
"ultimately seen". er uh Renae, according to non stop conservative narratives we were supposed to have seen it already. So not only has it not happened, Obamacare is wildly successful based on those very narratives. Just like you "fretting" about the employer mandate, its already in effect and nothing conservatives predicted happened. You just keep hoping.
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You don't think the shrinking middle class and 95 million out of work has nothing to with the ACA?
 
They Called Obamacare A 'Job-Killer.' Were They Wrong?
Forbes Welcome

No, CBO Did Not Say Obamacare Will Kill 2 Million Jobs
WaPo Fact Checker: ‘No, CBO Did Not Say Obamacare Will Kill 2 Million Jobs’ | Mediaite
Obamacare Is Spurring Startups and Creating Jobs
Obamacare Is Spurring Startups and Creating Jobs - Bloomberg Business
6 Fields Where Obamacare is Creating Jobs
6 Fields Where ObamaCare is Creating Jobs | Fox Business


Obamacare Is Creating Jobs — Yes, Really
NationalJournal

Since Obamacare Passed 50 Months Ago, Healthcare Has Gained Almost 1 Million Jobs
http://www.forbes.com/sites/dandiam...-healthcare-has-gained-almost-1-million-jobs/

ObamaCare will create healthcare jobs
http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/healthcare/190168-obamacare-will-create-healthcare-jobs
 
Renae said:
You don't think the shrinking middle class and 95 million out of work has nothing to with the ACA?
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renae, if you believe the ACA is responsible for that then back it up. I'm guessing you believe that but you asked a question as if you are making a point. Which is more suitable to a chat room. But before you go about trying to back up that point, could you address my post explaining that the Fox article lied when it said "latest blow". Which is an excellent example of how one should respond in a debate forum. See how I addressed what the article said and proved it was disingenuous at best. Not only is people choosing to work less "not a blow" to Obamacare its not "the latest blow".
 
Renae said:
You don't think the shrinking middle class and 95 million out of work has nothing to with the ACA?
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I think they are out of work because of Climate Change............:lamo
 
roughdraft274 said:
Can you point out where the CBO said that the people will be working less because they want a bigger subsidy?
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Of course the CBO doesn’t say what buck says . Buck is just being buck by posting a version of the “lazy 47%” narrative. People will simply chose to supply less labor. Some people will work less to actually get a subsidy. Some will simply stop working because they only worked for health care. This group will include people who retire early because they are now guaranteed to be able to get healthcare (I’ll be contributing this group in a couple of years). But people at 300% of FPL cutting back to 200% to get a bigger subsidy is just conservative fantasy.
 
Vern said:
Some people will work less to actually get a subsidy. Some will simply stop working because they only worked for health care.
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To obtain the subsidy is the number one cause of the decrease in hours. At last according to the cbo... even If not Vern. The second cause is to qualify for Medicaid.

You realize that people that are wealthy enough to only be working for healthcare are not going to qualify for subsidies or Medicaid, right?

I know people in that category, and they will continue working for healthcare until they qualify for Medicare, as they do not get the assistance that poorer people do.
 
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