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Obamacare = Smashing Success

jpn

jpn

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It looks like Obamacare will cover about 20 million people this year. That includes 11.4 million who signed up for private coverage, plus 9 million covered via Medicaid expansion.

Wow. What a success! And, unbelievably, the government's cost of health care coverage with all those new people is projected to actually be less this year than the year before Obamacare was enacted!

17-obamacare-graph4.nocrop.w529.h405.2x.jpg
source: Obamacare-Hater Can?t Find Single True Fact -- NYMag

Friggin' amazing triumph. No other legislation passed in decades will have the positive effect in people's lives that this is already having.
 
jpn said:
It looks like Obamacare will cover about 20 million people this year. That includes 11.4 million who signed up for private coverage, plus 9 million covered via Medicaid expansion.

Wow. What a success! And, unbelievably, the government's cost of health care coverage with all those new people is projected to actually be less this year than the year before Obamacare was enacted!

View attachment 67180681
source: Obamacare-Hater Can?t Find Single True Fact -- NYMag

Friggin' amazing triumph. No other legislation passed in decades will have the positive effect in people's lives that this is already having.
Click to expand...


Best of a bad situation. These government subsidized industries combine all the worst aspects of civil bureaucracies and greedy corporations with only a handful of the benefits. We would get better performance if we committed to one set of vices over the other. Premiums aren't dropping because commodities tied up in this much anti-competitive bureaucracy are insulated against the regular rules of supply on demand.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
The title of this thread contains a vivid truth, but not the way it was intended.
Click to expand...

It shows that government is incapable of running healthcare or even oversite of healthcare.

I don't see how 20% premium increases
higher healthcare costs
and forcing people to get healthcare that they can't use anyway as a smashing success.

I guess I have higher standards.

still waiting on my 2500 premium reduction.
 
Rates went up again this year, We lost benefits, and out of pocket is higher for my employees, perscriptions are percentage instead of fixed.


Oh and this year, dental is a requirment for kids in families at the tune to another additional $700 a year, (btw most spend about $250 a year on kids dental).


Hail Victory! /facepalm
 
Bob Blaylock said:
The title of this thread contains a vivid truth, but not the way it was intended.
Click to expand...


really? it exceeding all expectations. Considering about 50% of the population "predicted" the exact opposite, I would consider that a "Smashing Success". And any reasonable person would too. Hey, I know, lets compare it to the republican plan of "status quo". Yep, its still a "Smashing Success".
 
Vern said:
really? it exceeding all expectations. Considering about 50% of the population "predicted" the exact opposite, I would consider that a "Smashing Success". And any reasonable person would too. Hey, I know, lets compare it to the republican plan of "status quo". Yep, its still a "Smashing Success".
Click to expand...

Whether or not a particular government program lives up to (or down to) the expectations of 50 percent of the population is a pretty lame benchmark for "success". Half the people may have thought intervention in Vietnam would lead to WWIII, but because that did not happen does not mean Vietnam was a good idea. In short: appealing to the judgement of the masses (or to 50 percent of the masses) is not only a form of the fallacy of ad populum, its the obvious fallacy of 'because you were wrong, whatever I conclude must be right'.

So any "reasonable" person would recognize that the "success" of Obamacare should be measured by more than one benchmark:

a) Did it meet the promises and goals it promised?
b) If so, were those goals 'good' or 'bad'?
c) Regardless did those goals contribute to other offsetting negatives or "bads"?
d) Were their other choices (including doing nothing) that would have been superior?

Did it exceed my expectations? In some ways it did, it was worse than I thought.
 
maxparrish said:
Whether or not a particular government program lives up to (or down to) the expectations of 50 percent of the population is a pretty lame benchmark for "success".
Click to expand...

mmmm, I thought my post was clear. Obamacare is exceeding expectations. Now that we've cleared that up, lets focus on the part where 50% of the population that thought it couldn't possibly work, was unconstitutional, kill old people, death spiral, nobody would sign up, govt takeover of healthcare, cause 100 million people to lose insurance coverage, increase the deficit, destroy humanity, etc. Its exceeding their expectations also.

so lets review
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of intelligent and reasonable people.
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of people who predicted complete failure

that adds up to 100%
 
jpn said:
It looks like Obamacare will cover about 20 million people this year. That includes 11.4 million who signed up for private coverage, plus 9 million covered via Medicaid expansion.

Wow. What a success! And, unbelievably, the government's cost of health care coverage with all those new people is projected to actually be less this year than the year before Obamacare was enacted!
Click to expand...

If it is in fact true that public spending on health per capita is declining, then by itself that would seem like a good thing. If it is declining because it is shifting the spending to individuals and employers (for example, using mandates), then it is not necessarily such a good thing because the same money is still being spent (possibly more), but the only difference is that instead of pulling the money through a public channel, more of it is going straight from private citizens' pockets to the health insurance companies because the law is mandating that they hand it over.

Let's look at total spending per capita on health (public dollars plus private dollars) and see what we can do to that. If before we know it we are spending less per capita overall on health care than other countries, I will eat my words, but I don't see that happening any time soon.
 
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jpn said:
It looks like Obamacare will cover about 20 million people this year. That includes 11.4 million who signed up for private coverage, plus 9 million covered via Medicaid expansion.

Wow. What a success! And, unbelievably, the government's cost of health care coverage with all those new people is projected to actually be less this year than the year before Obamacare was enacted!


source: Obamacare-Hater Can?t Find Single True Fact -- NYMag

Friggin' amazing triumph. No other legislation passed in decades will have the positive effect in people's lives that this is already having.
Click to expand...

You can put lipstick on a pig...still doesn't make it look good while it's wallowing in the mud.
 
Vern said:
mmmm, I thought my post was clear. Obamacare is exceeding expectations.
Click to expand...
Really? And do you think repeating an unsupported and undefined characterization is going to make your handwaving any clearer or persuasive than when you first stated it?

Unless you are fishing for a Pulitzer prize in unartful dodging, specifically detail all those expectations, and evidence that all were "exceeded". And what evidence do you have that (presumably) 50 percent believe that they were exceeded? We can wait while you back up your claims.

Now that we've cleared that up, lets focus on the part where 50% of the population that thought it couldn't possibly work, was unconstitutional, kill old people, death spiral, nobody would sign up, govt takeover of healthcare, cause 100 million people to lose insurance coverage, increase the deficit, destroy humanity, etc. Its exceeding their expectations also.
Click to expand...

Specifically detail and provide evidence that 50 percent of the population thought all of the above. I have never read evidence that half the population thought "no one would sign up", "cause 100 million to lose insurance coverage", "destroy humanity", or any other the lurid nonsense you seem to be channeling from bizarro world.

so lets review
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of intelligent and reasonable people.
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of people who predicted complete failure

that adds up to 100%
Click to expand...
Oh good, more repeating of "up to 100%" of unsupported and opaque characterizations. That's soooooo persuasive.
 
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I suppose it goes to show how desperate and deluded the wrong-wing is, that the ObamaCare scam can be characterized as a “Smashing Success” for being less spectacular a failure than some have predicted.

However, I would have to say that even this is premature. I think it is too early yet to say that we've yet seen the full depth of its failure.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
I suppose it goes to show how desperate and deluded the wrong-wing is, that the ObamaCare scam can be characterized as a “Smashing Success” for being less spectacular a failure than some have predicted.

However, I would have to say that even this is premature. I think it is too early yet to say that we've yet seen the full depth of its failure.
Click to expand...

True. And one must also remember that honoring the truth is unfamiliar experience for left of center true believers. Like any cult, the state worshipers are spiritualists in mood, praising every public expenditure as an object of adoration and presenting heretics for hating. Their sheer ecstasy of grand government schemes and their love of glowing symbols of hope in our own time compels them to protect their latest icon, and to savage anyone who threatens their latest idolatry.

Obamacare has to "exceed all expectations" because anything less would be to admit that either they were either dupes or fools - and for the cult of government, that is impermissible.

PS By the way, when I get back this PM I will point out the ACTUAL expectations, the ACTUAL results, and the failure both in concept and execution.
 
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Here's a new one.

Now you are REQUIRED to have dental for your kids, even if your kid is a baby and has no teeth.

Average cost per year. $400 bucks.


they don't include this however with the stats on the "Costs of healthcare".


Brilliant!
 
Well, let the enlightenment begin:

"Exceeds expectations"? Really?

According to the administration 11.4 million signed up for Obamacare in the second enrollment. Like the first round of enrollment last year, this is higher than the actual number who will complete and pay for their coverage. The actual number will likely be closer to 10.5 million. (See link citation). In fact, do you remember all the ballyhooing over the 'over' 8 million signups last year? Of that number, turns out that only 6.7 million were still signed up by the end of 2014. A similar percentage of signup losses would suggest only 9 million by the end of 2015 (still, I expect 10.5 million is more likely).

So what has the CBO estimated?

CBO estimated back in 2013 that there would be 13 million people obtaining insurance in exchanges during 2015.

How is accomplishing only 75 percent of enrollment expectations "exceeding them"? As Bob B. pointed out, it seems that anything short of a collapse of ACA is worthy of giddy declarations of "exceeding expectations".

Anyway, here is what is most important: the CBOs original enrollment projection for 2016 was that 22 million people would be in the Obamacare insurance exchanges. Who (other than ACA delusionals) believes that anymore?

Sober minds wonder.

Health Care Policy and Marketplace Review
 
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ludin said:
It shows that government is incapable of running healthcare or even oversite of healthcare.
Click to expand...

Pssst. Obamacare is about making health insurance available to those who can't afford it, not "running healthcare." And just try taking Medicare out of the hands of the elderly. You won't get far.

ludin said:
I don't see how 20% premium increases
higher healthcare costs
and forcing people to get healthcare that they can't use anyway as a smashing success.
Click to expand...

Funny. Conservatives promised everyone, and themselves, that Obamacare would be a huge, catastrophic failure. Now it's clear to the reality-based community that the catastrophes never happened. But in the insulted alternate reality of conservatives, they were right all along.

It must be so strange to be a conservative. They are right, and facts be damned.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
Here's a new one.
Now you are REQUIRED to have dental for your kids, even if your kid is a baby and has no teeth.
Average cost per year. $400 bucks.
they don't include this however with the stats on the "Costs of healthcare".
Brilliant!
Click to expand...

Wow. Imagine that. Making sure that any health insurance policy worthy of the name would cover children's dental issues. The horror.
Dental Insurance
(and here I thought conservatives were SO CONCERNED about children...or is that only until they are born and begin, you know, costing us money?)
 
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jpn said:
Wow. Imagine that. Making sure that any health insurance policy worthy of the name would cover children's dental issues. The horror.
Dental Insurance
(and here I thought conservatives were SO CONCERNED about children...or is that only until they are born and begin, you know, costing us money?)
Click to expand...

It's much better for parents and guardians to be concerned about children than the government.

But hey, it goes without saying that liberals/progressives/Democrats would rather tell everyone how they will take care of their own children...instead of letting them take their own responsibility. Whether they like it or not.
 
maxparrish said:
And what evidence do you have that (presumably) 50 percent believe that they were exceeded? We can wait while you back up your claims.
Click to expand...


First off, Obamacare is working. That exceeds all republican expectations. The fact that its covering more people and costing less than projected exceeds my expectations. Hey did you know, we're spending less on healthcare with Obamacare than if we never passed it. smashing success. Oh you did bring up a good point. I shouldn't have said "nobody would sign up" I should have said "not enough would sign up" so let me fix it.

"lets focus on the part where 50% of the population that thought it couldn't possibly work, was unconstitutional, kill old people, death spiral, not enough people would sign up, govt takeover of healthcare, cause 100 million people to lose insurance coverage, increase the deficit, destroy humanity, etc. "

better?
 
maxparrish said:
Obamacare has to "exceed all expectations" because anything less would be to admit that either they were either dupes or fools - and for the cult of government, that is impermissible.
.
Click to expand...

mmmmmm max, if I'm in a cult how come you believed President Obama was born in Kenya? If I'm in a cult how come you believed the CBO was lying about the cost of Obamacare? If I'm in a cult how come you believed President Obama wanted to kill old people? If I'm in a cult how come you believed Obamacare was a govt takeover of healthcare? If I'm in a cult how come you believed Obamacare was unconstitutional before and after the SCOTUS ruling?

now max, if you tell us "er uh, I never believed those things" (as all cons are wont to do) then please explain why you think those lying conservative narratives are okay.
 
jpn said:
Pssst. Obamacare is about making health insurance available to those who can't afford it, not "running healthcare." And just try taking Medicare out of the hands of the elderly. You won't get far.



Funny. Conservatives promised everyone, and themselves, that Obamacare would be a huge, catastrophic failure. Now it's clear to the reality-based community that the catastrophes never happened. But in the insulted alternate reality of conservatives, they were right all along.

It must be so strange to be a conservative. They are right, and facts be damned.
Click to expand...


" Available " ? Because I thought it was about mak
 
jpn said:
Pssst. Obamacare is about making health insurance available to those who can't afford it, not "running healthcare." And just try taking Medicare out of the hands of the elderly. You won't get far.



Funny. Conservatives promised everyone, and themselves, that Obamacare would be a huge, catastrophic failure. Now it's clear to the reality-based community that the catastrophes never happened. But in the insulted alternate reality of conservatives, they were right all along.

It must be so strange to be a conservative. They are right, and facts be damned.
Click to expand...

" Available " ? Because I thought it was about making it AFFORDABLE.

Its in the laws title and everything. Gotta wonder why it had to be sold on a long list of lies if it was such a great law .

Its not a great law, its a disastrous law that's had profound economic consequences ever since Obama signed it.

And it IS great being a Conservative. We use truth to shape our ideology.

Not the other way around where Truth is " flexible ".
 
Vern said:
mmmm, I thought my post was clear. Obamacare is exceeding expectations. Now that we've cleared that up, lets focus on the part where 50% of the population that thought it couldn't possibly work, was unconstitutional, kill old people, death spiral, nobody would sign up, govt takeover of healthcare, cause 100 million people to lose insurance coverage, increase the deficit, destroy humanity, etc. Its exceeding their expectations also.

so lets review
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of intelligent and reasonable people.
Obamacare is exceeding the expectations of people who predicted complete failure

that adds up to 100%
Click to expand...

Since it was designed to fail, I would agree that it's a smashing success.
 
jpn said:
Pssst. Obamacare is about making health insurance available to those who can't afford it, not "running healthcare." And just try taking Medicare out of the hands of the elderly. You won't get far.
Click to expand...

actually that is what the ACA does. it sets mandates that insurance companies have to comply with. that is running healthcare.
lol affordable. how are ACA plans that saw 20% increases affordable. ol yea they have to choose another lower cost plans that might not be what they had before.

if you like your insurance you can keep it.


Funny. Conservatives promised everyone, and themselves, that Obamacare would be a huge, catastrophic failure. Now it's clear to the reality-based community that the catastrophes never happened. But in the insulted alternate reality of conservatives, they were right all along.
Click to expand...

actually it is a huge failure. healthcare costs continue to rise.
people this year are losing their tax returns
people are again having to choose new policies because the old policies are to expensive.
not what I call a smashing success.

It must be so strange to be a conservative. They are right, and facts be damned.
Click to expand...

If you like your plan you can keep it. if you like your doctor you can keep them. lie of the year.
healthcare costs will go down (yet every year they have gone up and continue to climb)
it will reduce your premium by 2500 bucks (really? still waiting).

yes we are right and liberals as usual ignore any and all facts.
 
jpn said:
Wow. Imagine that. Making sure that any health insurance policy worthy of the name would cover children's dental issues. The horror.
Dental Insurance
(and here I thought conservatives were SO CONCERNED about children...or is that only until they are born and begin, you know, costing us money?)
Click to expand...

yeah well until they are 4 at least kids don't need to see a dentist.
the rest is the typical liberal lie as always.

so please tell me why people should pay the cost of dental services for a child that doesn't need it?
that 400 a year could be used for something else.
 
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