Obamacare = Smashing Success

apdst said:

Since it was designed to fail, I would agree that it's a smashing success.

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this a classic example of a conservative not letting go of a lying conservative narrative ("its supposed to fail so we can get single payer) and typical ignorance of reality (it aint failing). since the success of Obamacare is documented all over this forum (thanks Greenbeard) I'll deal with the lying conservative narrative.

really? you still think Obamacare is just a trick to get single payer? or this is there some other equally laughable conservative narrative as to why they want it to fail? Anyhoo, conservatives have the worst pattern recognition on the planet. I just don't understand why they obediently believe the same liars that told them

President Obama was born in Kenya
is a secret muslim terrorist
wants to kill old people
stimulus will cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero
and the vile and disgusting stand down lies.

to name just a few of lies conservatives obediently believed.

Vern said:

this a classic example of a conservative not letting go of a lying conservative narrative ("its supposed to fail so we can get single payer) and typical ignorance of reality (it aint failing). since the success of Obamacare is documented all over this forum (thanks Greenbeard) I'll deal with the lying conservative narrative.

really? you still think Obamacare is just a trick to get single payer? or this is there some other equally laughable conservative narrative as to why they want it to fail? Anyhoo, conservatives have the worst pattern recognition on the planet. I just don't understand why they obediently believe the same liars that told them

President Obama was born in Kenya
is a secret muslim terrorist
wants to kill old people
stimulus will cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero
and the vile and disgusting stand down lies.

to name just a few of lies conservatives obediently believed.

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Yeah, it's working like a fine tuned machine!

Breaking: Healthcare.gov sent out 800,000 bad tax forms; Update: Officials don’t know what happened? « Hot Air

Video: ObamaCare exchange not allowing addition of newborns to policies « Hot Air

Vern said:

this a classic example of a conservative not letting go of a lying conservative narrative ("its supposed to fail so we can get single payer) and typical ignorance of reality (it aint failing). since the success of Obamacare is documented all over this forum (thanks Greenbeard) I'll deal with the lying conservative narrative.

really? you still think Obamacare is just a trick to get single payer? or this is there some other equally laughable conservative narrative as to why they want it to fail? Anyhoo, conservatives have the worst pattern recognition on the planet. I just don't understand why they obediently believe the same liars that told them

President Obama was born in Kenya
is a secret muslim terrorist
wants to kill old people
stimulus will cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero
and the vile and disgusting stand down lies.

to name just a few of lies conservatives obediently believed.

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Conservatives lying, eh?

Reid said he thinks the country has to “work our way past” insurance-based health care during a Friday night appearance on Vegas PBS’ program “Nevada Week in Review.”

“What we’ve done with Obamacare is have a step in the right direction, but we’re far from having something that’s going to work forever,” Reid said.

When then asked by panelist Steve Sebelius whether he meant ultimately the country would have to have a health care system that abandoned insurance as the means of accessing it, Reid said: “Yes, yes. Absolutely, yes.”

The idea of introducing a single-payer national health care system to the United States, or even just a public option, sent lawmakers into a tizzy back in 2009, when Reid was negotiating the health care bill.

“We had a real good run at the public option … don’t think we didn’t have a tremendous number of people who wanted a single-payer system,” Reid said on the PBS program, recalling how then-Sen. Joe Lieberman’s opposition to the idea of a public option made them abandon the notion and start from scratch.

Eventually, Reid decided the public option was unworkable.

“We had to get a majority of votes,” Reid said. “In fact, we had to get a little extra in the Senate, we have to get 60.”
Reid says Obamacare just a step toward eventual single-payer system - Las Vegas Sun News

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jpn said:

Wow. Imagine that. Making sure that any health insurance policy worthy of the name would cover children's dental issues. The horror.
Dental Insurance
(and here I thought conservatives were SO CONCERNED about children...or is that only until they are born and begin, you know, costing us money?)

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Serious?


Average cost of dental for a 5 year old is about $360 bucks.


You are now paying an insurance premium of over $400 bucks, plus deductibles.

Think about that for a second.


Also, you must get coverage on all childeren, even the youning who may not have any teeth yet.

Mycroft said:

Conservatives lying, eh?

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er uh MC, I'm not seeing what in your post supports the lying conservative narrative that "obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Try to focus and see if you can string a few sentences together on how you think your post supports the lying conservative narrative that "obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Now I don't mean to make it more difficult for you, I just want to spare you more embarrassment so here's some info you probably don't grasp: no one denies some democrats wanted single payer but all democrats wanted reform. They knew the republican plan (status quo) was going to bankrupt us and kill 10s if not 100s of thousands of people.

Vern said:

er uh MC, I'm not seeing what in your post supports the lying conservative narrative that "obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Try to focus and see if you can string a few sentences together on how you think your post supports the lying conservative narrative that "obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Now I don't mean to make it more difficult for you, I just want to spare you more embarrassment so here's some info you probably don't grasp: noo ne denies some democrats wanted single payer but all democrats wanted reform. They knew the republican plan (status quo) was going to bankrupt us and kill 10s if not 100s of thousands of people.

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shrug...

Hey, you are the one who is saying that the conservative lying line is "Obamacare is just a trick to get single payer". I just pointed out that at least one Democrat who happens to be the most prominent Democrat and the one most responsible for shoving Obamacare down our throat says it is the stepping stone.

But what I find most amusing are the liberal debate tactics you employ in your post.

Patronize your opponent: "I just want to spare you more embarrassment"

Insult your opponent: "Try to focus and see if you can string a few sentences together "

Sweeping, unsupported statements: Pretty much everything you say.

and your two-fer...

Hyperbole and strawman: "republican plan (status quo) was going to"


But, unlike me, you provide nothing to actually support your biased contentions. I mean, I provided you the words of one of your own leaders that disputes your own narrative and all you can do is employ those debate tactics. Oh, well...I suppose if your goal is entertaining blather, you are doing pretty good. If your goal is effective, interesting debate...you are not doing so great.

Mycroft said:

shrug...
Hey, you are the one who is saying that the conservative lying line is "Obamacare is just a trick to get single payer". I just pointed out that at least one Democrat who happens to be the most prominent Democrat and the one most responsible for shoving Obamacare down our throat says it is the stepping stone.

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er uh MC, the lying conservative narrative was "Obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Even with you "massaging" it to just a "trick to get single payer" you still fail. I don't see anything where Reid says its "a trick". See, your posts fail to in any way substantiate your new and improved “trick” or the original “designed to fail” . Again, no one denies some democrats wanted single payer. seriously try to focus and stop trying to make it about me.

Hyperbole and strawman: "republican plan (status quo) was going to"

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Oh no you don't MC, you can whine about me forever (and you seem to want to) but you don't get to pretend the republican plan wasn't status quo. Republicans only have “HC reform” plans in response to democrat plans. They had a plan for mandates to stop Hillarycare. Then they spent the next decade and a half having no plans even when they had total control. Then when Obamacare was proposed, magic presto, they had “plans” again. The hilarious thing about their “plan” when faced with their own mandate idea was to propose a plan that cost more and covered fewer people. You cant whine you’re concerned about the deficit when your plan costs more. Yet they did. After that, their plan was really just to pander to an ignorant base about repeal. Mmmmm, what plan would we have gotten if they repealed Obamacare? oh yea, status quo.

But, unlike me, you provide nothing to actually support your biased contentions.

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Yes MC, you finally posted a link. Before you sprain your arm patting yourself on the back, as I pointed out above, it in no way supports your contention that “Obamacare is a trick”.

jpn said:

Wow. Imagine that. Making sure that any health insurance policy worthy of the name would cover children's dental issues. The horror.
Dental Insurance
(and here I thought conservatives were SO CONCERNED about children...or is that only until they are born and begin, you know, costing us money?)

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Aslo,

Not a conservative, I support abortion up to 8 weeks, where according to science we start having brain activity. Then you have the rights of two people to consider.

But then again far left socalist activists tend to see everyone not exactly like them, as the enemy.


btw, my point shows a concern for both the kids and parents as I have shown you are paying more for the same or less service.


Obamacare has increased premiums, reduced benefits, and hasn't been what you had hoped.

Vern said:

er uh MC, the lying conservative narrative was "Obamacare was designed to fail to force single payer". Even with you "massaging" it to just a "trick to get single payer" you still fail. I don't see anything where Reid says its "a trick". See, your posts fail to in any way substantiate your new and improved “trick” or the original “designed to fail” . Again, no one denies some democrats wanted single payer. seriously try to focus and stop trying to make it about me.


Oh no you don't MC, you can whine about me forever (and you seem to want to) but you don't get to pretend the republican plan wasn't status quo. Republicans only have “HC reform” plans in response to democrat plans. They had a plan for mandates to stop Hillarycare. Then they spent the next decade and a half having no plans even when they had total control. Then when Obamacare was proposed, magic presto, they had “plans” again. The hilarious thing about their “plan” when faced with their own mandate idea was to propose a plan that cost more and covered fewer people. You cant whine you’re concerned about the deficit when your plan costs more. Yet they did. After that, their plan was really just to pander to an ignorant base about repeal. Mmmmm, what plan would we have gotten if they repealed Obamacare? oh yea, status quo.


Yes MC, you finally posted a link. Before you sprain your arm patting yourself on the back, as I pointed out above, it in no way supports your contention that “Obamacare is a trick”.

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Evidently you didn't read that Reid quote I gave in which he clearly states his goal is single payer and that Obamacare was the best he could get. I'm sure you now think he's given up on the idea of single payer, right?

LOL!!

And after your denials, you accuse me of making it about you?? After your insults, your patronizing attitude toward me (all of which you double down on in this post)?

Oh...hey...now you pulled out MORE dumbass liberal debating tactics: Deflection and accusing me of whining. Really...is that ALL you have?

Mycroft said:

Evidently you didn't read that Reid quote I gave in which he clearly states his goal is single payer and that Obamacare was the best he could get. I'm sure you now think he's given up on the idea of single payer, right?

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Mc, I read the quote. Yes, some dems wanted single payer. You're simply not telling me something I don't know. What your dishonest deflection continues to ignore is that the lying conservative narrative was "Obamacare was designed to fail to get single payer". You even tried to "massage" it to "it was a trick. So in addition to you not dealing with the fact that nothing in the quote you posted even remotely backs up the original lying conservative narrative or your new and improved version, it also fails to deal with the fact that Obamacare is exceeding expectations.

And after your denials, you accuse me of making it about you?? After your insults, your patronizing attitude toward me (all of which you double down on in this post)?

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wah wah wah. Mc, you whining about me is simply to deflect from the fact that "reid wanted single payer" in no way substantiates the lying conservative narrative that "Obamacare was designed to fail" or your just as hilarious and wrong as your " it was a trick".

Oh...hey...now you pulled out MORE dumbass liberal debating tactics: Deflection and accusing me of whining. Really...is that ALL you have?

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MC,notice how I don't cry when you insult me. Anyhoo, did you ever figure out yet that "reid wanted single payer" in no way substantiates the lying conservative narrative that "Obamacare was designed to fail" or your just as hilarious and wrong as your " it was a trick"? probably not. quick whine about me some more.

ReverendHellh0und said:

Obamacare has increased premiums, reduced benefits, and hasn't been what you had hoped.

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I wonder how you "increase premiums" and "reduce benefits," and yet somehow still manage to reduce the number of uninsured Americans to record lows?

And since I don't live in the alternate reality of Fox News, and therefore know what the facts actually are, I can say without hesitation that Obamacare is, in fact, what I had hoped:

Number of Uninsured Americans Near Historic Low

Remember how Obamacare was supposed to destroy the economy? Remember that? Republicans PROMISED that the Obamacare "train wreck" was going to kill jobs! No really! America was going to be an economic wasteland!

And the GOP is clearly pushing the "job-killer" claim. House Speaker John Boehner used the phrase "job-killing" to describe the health care law seven times on Thursday in a press conference that lasted less than 14 minutes — that’s once every 2 minutes. He also used the phrases "destroy jobs" and "destroying jobs" once each when talking about the law. Perhaps not surprisingly, the Republicans named their bill to repeal the health care law: "Repealing the Job-Killing Health Care Law Act."

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So how'd that turn out?

Well, the data are in, and it's not pretty for those conservative prognosticators:



Does anyone take Republicans seriously about anything anymore?

jpn said:

I wonder how you "increase premiums" and "reduce benefits," and yet somehow still manage to reduce the number of uninsured Americans to record lows?

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You do it by requiring people to buy something they don't want at prices they can't afford under threat of breaking the law.

jpn said:

Remember how Obamacare was supposed to destroy the economy? Remember that? Republicans PROMISED that the Obamacare "train wreck" was going to kill jobs! No really! America was going to be an economic wasteland!


So how'd that turn out?

Well, the data are in, and it's not pretty for those conservative prognosticators:

Does anyone take Republicans seriously about anything anymore?

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Do you have a link to the source of that graphic? The reason I ask is that it talks about "payroll change" and equates that to "job creation".

I did a search about payroll change and came up with this form:




That form is not limited to payroll changes due to job creation, so I'd like to know exactly what your graph is talking about.

Mycroft said:

You do it by requiring people to buy something they don't want at prices they can't afford under threat of breaking the law.

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I understand that personal responsibility is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand. You have to have health insurance in this society. We responsible members are sick and tired of paying for the free riders.

So deal with it.

jpn said:

I understand that personal responsibility is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand. You have to have health insurance in this society. We responsible members are sick and tired of paying for the free riders.

So deal with it.

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Personal responsibility is not something you force on someone.

Mycroft said:

Do you have a link to the source of that graphic? The reason I ask is that it talks about "payroll change" and equates that to "job creation".
That form is not limited to payroll changes due to job creation, so I'd like to know exactly what your graph is talking about.

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Hi. Whenever you see a graphic you can right-click on it and trace to "Properties." From there you can copy the address and paste it into your browser.

Your apparent astonishment at what everyone else has known for some time suggests that you have all your "news" filtered through Fox. Perhaps you may want to expand your horizons a bit.

Henrin said:

Personal responsibility is not something you force on someone.

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Oh really? So you can drive around without a license in your conservative utopia? No regulating corporations (who are legally "persons" in many respects) from dumping sludge into our drinking water?

In the real world, just to let you know, most of us are nice people. So we aren't willing to let a person bleed out in an emergency room because they don't have health insurance. So we, the citizens of this nation, decided through our elected officials that we're sick and tired of paying for these freeloaders.

And now we all have a choice. We can:

1) Be insured (like reasonable, responsible adults)
2) Pay the penalty for not being insured
3) Move to another country (and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out)

What do you choose?

jpn said:

Oh really? So you can drive around without a license in your conservative utopia? No regulating corporations (who are legally "persons" in many respects) from dumping sludge into our drinking water?

In the real world, just to let you know, most of us are nice people. So we aren't willing to let a person bleed out in an emergency room because they don't have health insurance. So we, the citizens of this nation, decided through our elected officials that we're sick and tired of paying for these freeloaders.

And now we all have a choice. We can:

1) Be insured (like reasonable, responsible adults)
2) Pay the penalty for not being insured
3) Move to another country (and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out)

What do you choose?

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4.) Throw tyrants out.

jpn said:

I understand that personal responsibility is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand. You have to have health insurance in this society. We responsible members are sick and tired of paying for the free riders.

So deal with it.

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Henrin said:

Personal responsibility is not something you force on someone.

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It seems that one of the defining clichés about wrong-wingers is that, not having any true understanding of what personal responsibility means, they confuse it with abusive government force.

jpn said:

I wonder how you "increase premiums" and "reduce benefits," and yet somehow still manage to reduce the number of uninsured Americans to record lows?

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Those are two separate things, you can insure more people while still charging them more for less. Duh.

And since I don't live in the alternate reality of Fox News, and therefore know what the facts actually are, I can say without hesitation that Obamacare is, in fact, what I had hoped:

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Is that what the three arrows avatar is "liberal who watches fox to screem about others who don't watch fox for watching fox" glee club patch or something? lol

Number of Uninsured Americans Near Historic Low

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YOU MAKE IT A ****ING CRIME TO BE UNINSURED AND OF COURSE ITS GOING DOWN.

Freedom? What freedom?

jpn said:

I understand that personal responsibility is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand. You have to have health insurance in this society. We responsible members are sick and tired of paying for the free riders.

So deal with it.

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lol, the dependent class socialists lecturing others on "personal responsibility", now I have seen it all!

jpn said:

I understand that personal responsibility is a difficult concept for conservatives to understand. You have to have health insurance in this society. We responsible members are sick and tired of paying for the free riders.

So deal with it.

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Personal responsibility, eh? Do you even understand that concept? If you think it is something that can be imposed by the government, then you don't know what it is. Here are a few quotes about personal responsibility:

Personal responsibility is a personal choice. It’s taking responsibility for one’s own actions.
Personal Responsibility - Term Papers - Zkenneb

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Personal responsibility, to me, means that we as individuals are responsible for our own actions.
Personal Responsibility - Research Paper

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You must accept personal responsibility for the mess and disorder that you have created in your life.
personal responsibility - College Essays - Monkeyman86

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Personal Responsibility is realizing that you are responsible for the choices and obligations you make in your life!
Defining Personal Responsibility - Essays - Ammcelhone

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You'll notice some similarities in these quotes, as well as something missing. Similiarities are "choice", "actions", "individual", "responsibility". What's missing is "government force".

Now...you complain about having to pay for those who don't take responsibility, but why are you paying? It was their choice not to take personal responsibility, not yours. The reason you are paying goes back to the government. IT made that choice for you...you didn't. The government forced you to be responsible for others instead of letting them be responsible for themselves. And now...now that the government is forcing people to buy something they don't want, you use that condition forced upon you by the government as the justification.

Tell me...when are you going to take responsibility for yourself and resist the government's efforts to force you...and me...to do something we might not want to do? Something we might not chose to do?


Now...you say "You have to have health insurance in this society." Why? What if I chose not to have health insurance and am willing to take responsibility for my choices? Should I be forced to have health insurance...just because you say so? Why won't you let me exercise my "personal responsibility"?

If you are sick and tired of paying for the free riders, then just stop paying. Let THEM take "personal responsibility" instead of paying for them...and then getting pissed off because you have to do something you (or the government) chose to do.

jpn said:

Hi. Whenever you see a graphic you can right-click on it and trace to "Properties." From there you can copy the address and paste it into your browser.

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Maybe you are using a different browser than I am because my browser doesn't give me anything that mentions "Properties". This is what I see:



So, again, I ask you for a link to your source.

Your apparent astonishment at what everyone else has known for some time suggests that you have all your "news" filtered through Fox. Perhaps you may want to expand your horizons a bit.

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I'm not "astonished". I would simply like to see the source of your graph. Don't you want to expand my horizons by supplying that source?


btw, it's my experience that when someone mentions "what everyone else has known for some time", it's usually some kind of biased claptrap. I don't know if YOUR information is claptrap, but I recognize that there is a distinct possibility that it is. Prove it's not, eh?