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GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac tax

Vern

Vern

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Since repeal is no longer an option for Obamacare, republicans have changed to their 'bumper sticker' slogan from "repeal" to "repeal and replace". No longer being able to rely on "magic" plans to replace Obamacare, they have to be a little more specific.

"
The GOP plan would tax the value of employer-provided health coverage exceeding $12,000 for individuals and $30,000 for families, amounts that would grow as inflation rises.
"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-l...alth-law-tax-credits-082516083--politics.html

I guess we should applaud (some) republicans transitioning from non-stop whining and lying to actually attempting to govern. Now, I should point out, this transition will be greatly aided if dems and the media don’t point out the inevitable similarities between Obamacare and whatever republicans propose. Sadly, I don’t think it really matters. Even with an gullible base and obedient media, I think they’ll crumble under the pressure of leadership. Let’s face it, the people who whine the most about not getting their way and lie to get it don’t really seem like the best choice to lead.

I doubt an actual Obamacare replacement bill gets drafted let alone voted on
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
Since repeal is no longer an option for Obamacare, republicans have changed to their 'bumper sticker' slogan from "repeal" to "repeal and replace". No longer being able to rely on "magic" plans to replace Obamacare, they have to be a little more specific.

"
The GOP plan would tax the value of employer-provided health coverage exceeding $12,000 for individuals and $30,000 for families, amounts that would grow as inflation rises.
"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-l...alth-law-tax-credits-082516083--politics.html

I guess we should applaud (some) republicans transitioning from non-stop whining and lying to actually attempting to govern. Now, I should point out, this transition will be greatly aided if dems and the media don’t point out the inevitable similarities between Obamacare and whatever republicans propose. Sadly, I don’t think it really matters. Even with an gullible base and obedient media, I think they’ll crumble under the pressure of leadership. Let’s face it, the people who whine the most about not getting their way and lie to get it don’t really seem like the best choice to lead.

I doubt an actual Obamacare replacement bill gets drafted let alone voted on
Click to expand...
Since there is no way to repeal this law while Obama is in office, republicans will fall into their traditional role--efficiency experts of the welfare state. But you go right on pretending that this law is perfect and not in need of massive changes
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
Since there is no way to repeal this law while Obama is in office, republicans will fall into their traditional role--efficiency experts of the welfare state. But you go right on pretending that this law is perfect and not in need of massive changes
Click to expand...

Efficiency like trickle-down economics, the drug war, massive military spending, and stealing money from social security. Tell us again about those fiscal wizards on the right who somehow always seem to put this country into deficit.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

System dependency is always difficult and painful to remove. ACA moved us in a direction where an alternate course will mean usage of prior elements already in place even if for a temporary timeframe. It is the difference between being systematic in removal of problems vs. dropping a bomb on the marketplace to absorb. Republicans are going to have to be creative and it may involve upsetting some of their base as a means to an ends.

In some ways that is the point of politically developing system depencies. The same political objectives in creating them apply to keeping them.

My hope is enough people eventually realize the consequences of the road we are now on with healthcare.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Paschendale said:
Efficiency like trickle-down economics, the drug war, massive military spending, and stealing money from social security. Tell us again about those fiscal wizards on the right who somehow always seem to put this country into deficit.
Click to expand...
Deficits don't matter. Remember? Or I guess, in your mind, they only matter when republicans run them up. As for 'stealing money from SS' when did that start?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
Since there is no way to repeal this law while Obama is in office, republicans will fall into their traditional role--efficiency experts of the welfare state. But you go right on pretending that this law is perfect and not in need of massive changes
Click to expand...

If you are unable to respond to what I post, why do you bother to hit the reply button? Also, I said "repeal is no longer an option". It has nothing to do with President Obama being in office. But since you admit it (in your own special way) that repeal is impossible, you must get pretty rankled at the 50 plus votes to repeal Obamacare, yes?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
Since repeal is no longer an option for Obamacare, republicans have changed to their 'bumper sticker' slogan from "repeal" to "repeal and replace". No longer being able to rely on "magic" plans to replace Obamacare, they have to be a little more specific.

"
The GOP plan would tax the value of employer-provided health coverage exceeding $12,000 for individuals and $30,000 for families, amounts that would grow as inflation rises.
"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-l...alth-law-tax-credits-082516083--politics.html

I guess we should applaud (some) republicans transitioning from non-stop whining and lying to actually attempting to govern. Now, I should point out, this transition will be greatly aided if dems and the media don’t point out the inevitable similarities between Obamacare and whatever republicans propose. Sadly, I don’t think it really matters. Even with an gullible base and obedient media, I think they’ll crumble under the pressure of leadership. Let’s face it, the people who whine the most about not getting their way and lie to get it don’t really seem like the best choice to lead.

I doubt an actual Obamacare replacement bill gets drafted let alone voted on
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



If the GOP ever sends a repeal/replacement bill to Obama how will they ever override his veto?

Fill us in. :roll:
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
If you are unable to respond to what I post, why do you bother to hit the reply button? Also, I said "repeal is no longer an option". It has nothing to do with President Obama being in office. But since you admit it (in your own special way) that repeal is impossible, you must get pretty rankled at the 50 plus votes to repeal Obamacare, yes?
Click to expand...
I gave all the response your OP was worthy of. If that seems unsatisfactory to you, examine your own OP. Repeal is not an option because Obama would never go along with it. How do you not understand that? And why would I be 'rankled at the 50 plus votes to repeal Obamacare?'
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

The ACA was their healthcare plan (Romneycare anyone?), but now that Obama has taken them up on it they largely don't know what to do. They have to oppose Obama. Cause, you know, politics.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

shrubnose said:
If the GOP ever sends a repeal/replacement bill to Obama how will they ever override his veto?
Click to expand...

They'll never send a replacement bill to Obama. Even the proposal in the OP doesn't have support in their caucus, nothing does. They simply don't have--nor have they ever had--a replacement to the ACA.

What happens to someone with a medical condition who has their coverage "repealed" by the GOP? They'll get back to you on that one (someday)!
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

shrubnose said:
If the GOP ever sends a repeal/replacement bill to Obama how will they ever override his veto?

Fill us in. :roll:
Click to expand...

My contention is that repeal is no longer possible not because President Obama would veto the bill. He would have "vetoed" repeal the last 4 years had a bill made it out of congress. That didn't stop the 50 or so bills to repeal Obamacare. I say it’s no longer an option because Obamacare is working and working better than expected. Republicans changing their narrative from "repeal" to "repeal and replace" kinda proves that. That’s why I say repealing Obamacare is no longer an option and that’s why republicans are finally getting more specific on their “replacement” plan. It has other similarities with Obamacare but I just found the “Cadillac tax” similarity funny.

As far as your question goes, if the republican congress actually drafts a bill that makes healthcare more affordable and accessible, improves the quality of healthcare, eliminates the pre-existing condition exclusion without mandates, why would President Obama veto it? And if it did all those things, I'm sure enough dems would vote for it to override his veto. And not for nothing, I’m sure some dems would vote for it even if it didn’t do all of those things. As soon as we read the republican bill, we can discuss its potential for being made into law.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
I gave all the response your OP was worthy of. If that seems unsatisfactory to you, examine your own OP. Repeal is not an option because Obama would never go along with it. How do you not understand that? And why would I be 'rankled at the 50 plus votes to repeal Obamacare?'
Click to expand...

Yes Fletch, repeal is not possible because President Obama would never go along with it. that hasn't changed the last four years. What has changed (and you have to overlook) is that Obamacare is working and working better than expected hence republicans cant just repeal it anymore. Its why they changed their narrative to "repeal and replace". And my point about not responding to my post was concerning your response to the imaginary post where I said Obamacare is perfect.

Fletch said:
But you go right on pretending that this law is perfect and not in need of massive changes
Click to expand...

Just so you know fletch, conservatives also have to respond to imaginary posts instead of what I actually post. Anyhoo, you should be rankled at republicans wasting time and money voting over 50 times to repeal something even you said cant be repealed. (see how I respond to what you actually post. you should try it sometime)
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
Yes Fletch, repeal is not possible because President Obama would never go along with it. that hasn't changed the last four years. What has changed (and you have to overlook) is that Obamacare is working and working better than expected hence republicans cant just repeal it anymore. Its why they changed their narrative to "repeal and replace". And my point about not responding to my post was concerning your response to the imaginary post where I said Obamacare is perfect.
Click to expand...
The plan hasn't been fully implemented yet so there is no way you can say it is 'working' We will see how well it 'works' once the employer mandate has a chance to sink in.



Just so you know fletch, conservatives also have to respond to imaginary posts instead of what I actually post. Anyhoo, you should be rankled at republicans wasting time and money voting over 50 times to repeal something even you said cant be repealed. (see how I respond to what you actually post. you should try it sometime)
Click to expand...
I respond to what you post. You just don't always like the response. But what time and what money has been wasted with these votes?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
Since repeal is no longer an option for Obamacare, republicans have changed to their 'bumper sticker' slogan from "repeal" to "repeal and replace". No longer being able to rely on "magic" plans to replace Obamacare, they have to be a little more specific.

"
The GOP plan would tax the value of employer-provided health coverage exceeding $12,000 for individuals and $30,000 for families, amounts that would grow as inflation rises.
"

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/gop-l...alth-law-tax-credits-082516083--politics.html

I guess we should applaud (some) republicans transitioning from non-stop whining and lying to actually attempting to govern. Now, I should point out, this transition will be greatly aided if dems and the media don’t point out the inevitable similarities between Obamacare and whatever republicans propose. Sadly, I don’t think it really matters. Even with an gullible base and obedient media, I think they’ll crumble under the pressure of leadership. Let’s face it, the people who whine the most about not getting their way and lie to get it don’t really seem like the best choice to lead.

I doubt an actual Obamacare replacement bill gets drafted let alone voted on
Click to expand...

They were elected on the basis of repealing Obama-care and even some democrats have lost their seats over voting for Obama-care. So they think it makes sense to offer an alternative? Are they high?Should we start drug testing elected officials?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
The plan hasn't been fully implemented yet so there is no way you can say it is 'working' We will see how well it 'works' once the employer mandate has a chance to sink in.
Click to expand...
" chance to sink in ". That's funny. You are obviously aware that the employer mandate has started for firms over 100 employees which accounts for the vast majority of people affected so you cant say “wait until it starts”. And fyi, my job’s enrollment period ended before December. I’m sure that’s pretty standard for most if not all companies to pick their benefits before the new year starts. So “sinks in” is just another hilarious “hail mary” phrase so you can continue to obediently wail and flail at Obamacare. (Just so you know, conservatives do that too)

I respond to what you post. You just don't always like the response. But what time and what money has been wasted with these votes?
Click to expand...
That’s a silly question. Mmmm, its so silly I’ll just assume you are just trying to deflect from your response to a post I didn’t post. Remember, you responded to an imaginary post where I said “Obamacare was perfect”. Do you even know what the thread is about? Its about republicans finally having to give some specifics for the “replace” part of their newfound slogan “repeal and replace”. I found the “Cadillac tax” rather amusing. Others might find their plan to maintain the 700 billion dollar “cuts” to Medicaid amusing.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
" chance to sink in ". That's funny. You are obviously aware that the employer mandate has started for firms over 100 employees which accounts for the vast majority of people affected so you cant say “wait until it starts”. And fyi, my job’s enrollment period ended before December. I’m sure that’s pretty standard for most if not all companies to pick their benefits before the new year starts. So “sinks in” is just another hilarious “hail mary” phrase so you can continue to obediently wail and flail at Obamacare. (Just so you know, conservatives do that too)
Click to expand...
Actually, most people are employed in firms with under 100 employees and the effects on those companies are likely to be significant. That is obvious. Otherwise, why the delay in bringing them in?


That’s a silly question. Mmmm, its so silly I’ll just assume you are just trying to deflect from your response to a post I didn’t post. Remember, you responded to an imaginary post where I said “Obamacare was perfect”. Do you even know what the thread is about? Its about republicans finally having to give some specifics for the “replace” part of their newfound slogan “repeal and replace”. I found the “Cadillac tax” rather amusing. Others might find their plan to maintain the 700 billion dollar “cuts” to Medicaid amusing.
Click to expand...
Its not a silly question. Its just one you cant answer, so you change the subject. Let me ask you again: What time and money have been wasted with these votes?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
Actually, most people are employed in firms with under 100 employees and the effects on those companies are likely to be significant. That is obvious. Otherwise, why the delay in bringing them in?
Click to expand...

No, they aren't. The SBA keeps data on firm size. Two-thirds of employees work for a firm of 100 employees or larger. For them, the employer mandate is in effect and whatever impact it was going to have was apparent during their open enrollments last fall.

Another 28% of employees are in firms with 49 or fewer employees--firms that aren't subject to the mandate ever.

So it sounds like you're pinning your hopes for disaster on the remaining firms (which together employ ~6% of workers) for which the employer mandate takes effect next year?
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
Actually, most people are employed in firms with under 100 employees and the effects on those companies are likely to be significant. That is obvious. Otherwise, why the delay in bringing them in?
Click to expand...

see how you posted what you wanted to believe instead of what was true. Conservatives do the exact same thing. so, has the employer mandate "sunk in" yet based on the data Greenbeard provided? mmmm, something tells me we'll never get an answer from you on that. speaking of questions.

Its not a silly question. Its just one you cant answer, so you change the subject. Let me ask you again: What time and money have been wasted with these votes?
Click to expand...

just so you know Fletch, conservatives never answer my question. I do however answer questions directly related to what I post. I don't think I need to back up "waste of time". Even you said repeal had no chance to pass. I guess you obediently believe it wasn't a waste of time because you obediently believe the lies about Obamacare. Maybe the first couple of votes weren't a waste of time. You could spin it as "gauging reaction" or some such nonsense but how do you not call the next 50 or so votes "a waste of time"? That was time they could have spent coming up with replacement right? and I'm not going to research the costs associated with bringing a bill to a vote because its simply not important to the conversation. Which is exactly why you want to "discuss" it. It deflects from the point of the thread and your hilarious response to an imaginary thread and you posting things because you wish they were true.
 
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Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

jamesrage said:
They were elected on the basis of repealing Obama-care and even some democrats have lost their seats over voting for Obama-care. So they think it makes sense to offer an alternative? Are they high?Should we start drug testing elected officials?
Click to expand...
I think everyone should undergo random drug testing, regardless of employment.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Greenbeard said:
No, they aren't. The SBA keeps data on firm size. Two-thirds of employees work for a firm of 100 employees or larger. For them, the employer mandate is in effect and whatever impact it was going to have was apparent during their open enrollments last fall.

Another 28% of employees are in firms with 49 or fewer employees--firms that aren't subject to the mandate ever.

So it sounds like you're pinning your hopes for disaster on the remaining firms (which together employ ~6% of workers) for which the employer mandate takes effect next year?
Click to expand...

and in 2012, 86% of firms with 50-90 employees offered healthcare benefits. I think its actually higher now but 86% shows the employer mandate fully "sinking in" will be a non event.

Employment-based health benefits in small and large private establishments : Beyond the Numbers: U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Greenbeard said:
No, they aren't. The SBA keeps data on firm size. Two-thirds of employees work for a firm of 100 employees or larger. For them, the employer mandate is in effect and whatever impact it was going to have was apparent during their open enrollments last fall.

Another 28% of employees are in firms with 49 or fewer employees--firms that aren't subject to the mandate ever.

So it sounds like you're pinning your hopes for disaster on the remaining firms (which together employ ~6% of workers) for which the employer mandate takes effect next year?
Click to expand...
How about you point to exactly where in your link that data comes from. According to treasury data, 96% of employers have 50 or less.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
see how you posted what you wanted to believe instead of what was true. Conservatives do the exact same thing. so, has the employer mandate "sunk in" yet based on the data Greenbeard provided? mmmm, something tells me we'll never get an answer from you on that. speaking of questions.
Click to expand...
It just went into effect last month. We will see how it shakes out.



just so you know Fletch, conservatives never answer my question. I do however answer questions directly related to what I post. I don't think I need to back up "waste of time". Even you said repeal had no chance to pass. I guess you obediently believe it wasn't a waste of time because you obediently believe the lies about Obamacare. Maybe the first couple of votes weren't a waste of time. You could spin it as "gauging reaction" or some such nonsense but how do you not call the next 50 or so votes "a waste of time"? That was time they could have spent coming up with replacement right? and I'm not going to research the costs associated with bringing a bill to a vote because its simply not important to the conversation. Which is exactly why you want to "discuss" it. It deflects from the point of the thread and your hilarious response to an imaginary thread and you posting things because you wish they were true.
Click to expand...
You brought it up, not me. I simply asked you to clarify. You wont. Because you cant. As for the 'point of the thread' there really isn't one. So its hard to deflect away from what isn't there. Frankly, vern, you should be thanking me for keeping this pointless thread afloat. If it weren't for my involvement, it would already be long forgotten. So, youre welcome.
 
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Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
It just went into effect last month. We will see how it shakes out.
Click to expand...

so it took effect but didn't "sink in" yet? sorry fletch. 50-100 million people didn't lose their health care as predicted and hoped for.
You brought it up, not me. I simply asked you to clarify. You wont. Because you cant. As for the 'point of the thread' there really isn't one. So its hard to deflect away from what isn't there. Frankly, vern, you should be thanking me for keeping this pointless thread afloat. If it weren't for my involvement, it would already be long forgotten. So, youre welcome.
Click to expand...

so you still don't want to discuss the thread topic or your response to an imaginary post or you posting things because you wish they were true. Do you at least agree that the last 50 or so votes to repeal were a waste of time? Anyhoo, if you are unable to respond to posts and threads in an honest and intelligent fashion, why are you at a debate forum?
 
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Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Vern said:
so it took effect but didn't "sink in" yet? sorry fletch. 50-100 million people didn't lose their health care as predicted and hoped for. Why did you even bring it up? it had nothing to do with the thread? I think I know.



so you still don't want to discuss the thread topic or your response to an imaginary post or you posting things because you wish they were true. Do you at least agree that the last 50 or so votes to repeal were a waste of time? Anyhoo, if you are unable to respond to posts and threads in an honest and intelligent fashion, why are you at a debate forum?
Click to expand...
I responded to your OP and gave it all the time it deserved. But Ill tell you what. Since you think there is soo much of substance in this thread that needs to be discussed, I will get out of the way and let you and your imaginary friends have at it.
 
Re: GOP attempts to come up with an actual Obamacare replacement includes Cadillac ta

Fletch said:
I responded to your OP and gave it all the time it deserved. But Ill tell you what. Since you think there is soo much of substance in this thread that needs to be discussed, I will get out of the way and let you and your imaginary friends have at it.
Click to expand...

so, you demand I answer your questions (again) and you don't think you have to answer one. mmmm, that's exactly what conservatives do. so you wont answer if you think the last 50 or so votes were a waste of time? hey did you ever figure your "small employer not having a lot employees" CONundrum?
 
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