Obamacare to unleash the American “entrepreneurial spirit”

Thrilla · Nov 20, 2015

Vern said:
As far as proof, I've posted it so in this case correlation does equal causation. The lack of availability of non group health insurance was a known impediment to people starting their own business. And read this very slowly, "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades". You whining changes doesn't change the facts.

your word means nothing... bring proof or don't bother me by responding.

Vern · Nov 22, 2015

Thrilla said:
your word means nothing... bring proof or don't bother me by responding.

oh thrilla, what a childish post. I've not only posted the proof I even explained it you. This is a debate forum not a chat room for children. You whining over and over "that's not proof" is whining not debate. If you have an alternate "theory" as to why "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades" feel free to respond.

Thrilla · Nov 23, 2015

Vern said:
oh thrilla, what a childish post. I've not only posted the proof I even explained it you. This is a debate forum not a chat room for children. You whining over and over "that's not proof" is whining not debate. If you have an alternate "theory" as to why "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades" feel free to respond.

you could have taken all this time to go get some proof and post it here for us.... and yet, you just keep yammering.

we both know you don't have proof of your claim.... but only one of us is honest enough to state as much.

Vern · Nov 23, 2015

Thrilla said:
you could have taken all this time to go get some proof and post it here for us.... and yet, you just keep yammering.

we both know you don't have proof of your claim.... but only one of us is honest enough to state as much.

"2014 was the best year for startups in two decades"

Thrilla · Nov 26, 2015

Vern said:
"2014 was the best year for startups in two decades"

you forgot the part where you claim Obamacare is the direct cause of all these start-ups.

.. and , of course, you forgot to provide evidence of your claim.... for the hundredth time.

Vern · Nov 30, 2015

Thrilla said:
you forgot the part where you claim Obamacare is the direct cause of all these start-ups.

.. and , of course, you forgot to provide evidence of your claim.... for the hundredth time.

oh thrilla, I see the problem now. I forgot, you post exactly like a conservative. Conservatives have to "misparaphrase" my posts in their constant attempt to flail at reality. I never gave Obamacare credit for "all these start-ups". I gave Obamacare full credit the increase. Remember, "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades." Americans were always going to try to start their own business. Obamacare removed a large and known impediment to self employment. Sure the great Obama Bull Market made it easier for people to start their own business but that has made it easier the last 5 years. the reason "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades" is because of Obamacare.

Thrilla , flailing at the facts, whining at me and "misparaphrasing" my posts is not debate. Again, this is a debate forum not a chat room.

Thrilla · Dec 1, 2015

Vern said:
oh thrilla, I see the problem now. I forgot, you post exactly like a conservative. Conservatives have to "misparaphrase" my posts in their constant attempt to flail at reality. I never gave Obamacare credit for "all these start-ups". I gave Obamacare full credit the increase. Remember, "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades." Americans were always going to try to start their own business. Obamacare removed a large and known impediment to self employment. Sure the great Obama Bull Market made it easier for people to start their own business but that has made it easier the last 5 years. the reason "2014 was the best year for startups in two decades" is because of Obamacare.

Thrilla , flailing at the facts, whining at me and "misparaphrasing" my posts is not debate. Again, this is a debate forum not a chat room.

a debate would actually consist of you providing evidence for your claim.... evidence that is woefully absent and has exactly zero chance of appearing

you can keep stating your position until the cows come home.... without providing evidence, it's just another unsubstantiated claim made with a particularly partisan bend .... nothing less, nothing more.

despite having more than ample time and opportunity, you've failed to bring evidence of your claim....that is simply a fact.

I look forward to your reply.. a reply that will most assuredly NOT contain substantiation of your claim.

as an aside, it's too bad you didn't start this debate with the claim of Obamacare being beneficial to start-ups, or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups.... we might have agreed.... instead, you decided to fulfill you usual role as a Obama fluffer and offer up a wholly different claim that you cannot prove.
extremist partisans will never learn.... :roll:

Vern · Dec 1, 2015

Thrilla said:
a debate would actually consist of you providing evidence for your claim.... evidence that is woefully absent and has exactly zero chance of appearing

that's funny thrilla, conservative posters also ignore the actual facts I provide as a excuse to not engage in an honest and intelligent discussion of the facts. And they also tell me I cant provide the evidence.

you can keep stating your position until the cows come home.... without providing evidence, it's just another unsubstantiated claim made with a particularly partisan bend .... nothing less, nothing more.

another amazing coincidence thrilla. Conservatives are always accusing me of exactly what they do. They too simply repeat their narratives without providing evidence and they too whine at me that I'm a partisan. Amazing.

despite having more than ample time and opportunity, you've failed to bring evidence of your claim....that is simply a fact.

holy cow! look how you're still repeating your narrative. That's exactly what conservatives do instead of attempting to have an honest and intelligent debate.

I look forward to your reply.. a reply that will most assuredly NOT contain substantiation of your claim.

oh thrilla this is just to weird. you're repeating that I cant prove my point yet again. I tell ya thrilla, if you didn't whine at me so much for calling you a conservative, I'd swear you were one.

as an aside, it's too bad you didn't start this debate with the claim of Obamacare being beneficial to start-ups, or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups.... we might have agreed.... instead, you decided to fulfill you usual role as a Obama fluffer and offer up a wholly different claim that you cannot prove.
extremist partisans will never learn.... :roll:

er uh thrilla I started this thread based on a study from before Obamacare that said Obamacare would be beneficial to startups. A year and a half later I posted an unrelated third party that said "2014 was the best year for startups in 2 decades" You whined and whined and whined at that and at me and then you finally admitted you were falsely trying to interpret this thread as "obamacare is responsible for every startup". A typical conservative "misparaphrasing" of what I posted. I then took the time to correct your typically conservative "misparaphrasing" of what I posted and now you pretend that I didn't clear it up for you. Sorry thrilla, that's simply dishonesty on your part. Another amazing coincidence between what you post and what conservatives post.

as far as your fluffer reference, the funny thing is, conservatives (when they can) also use homoerotic references when I shred their silly deflecting whining. Thrilla, not that I haven't enjoyed you whining and flailing at me and my posts but I don't think you understand this is a debate forum. Maybe you would find a chat room more suitable for your posting style

Thrilla · Dec 1, 2015

Thrilla says " I look forward to your reply.. a reply that will most assuredly NOT contain substantiation of your claim."

Thrilla nails it once again..

At least that makes one of us who has been proven correct in this thread... and it only took one post to be proven... not 11 pages and counting.

Greenbeard · Dec 2, 2015

Thrilla said:
as an aside, it's too bad you didn't start this debate with the claim of Obamacare being beneficial to start-ups, or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups.... we might have agreed....

Seems like you two do agree then. Obviously allowing folks to get decent coverage outside the employer-sponsored space will give people more latitude to strike out on their own.

Thrilla · Dec 2, 2015

Greenbeard said:
Seems like you two do agree then. Obviously allowing folks to get decent coverage outside the employer-sponsored space will give people more latitude to strike out on their own.

I don't disagree with that, to a point.

we don't know to what degree this latitude has influenced these business decisions.. and we haven't even touched on any other factor, of which there are many.
ya see, it's much more involved than " Obamacare leads to utopia" bull****.... hell, even the UK is seeing record startups, and they've had latitude for a very long time.
there are lots of drivers to entrepreneurship...Obamcare can be added to that very long list, but it cannot , as Vern wishes, replace everything on that list... it's just not so.

but anyways, this is how Vern's threads go... he throws out some wild claim , and then spends the rest of the threads yammering about conservatives. ( he's knows i'm a Libertarian,btw )

Vern · Dec 2, 2015

Thrilla said:
Thrilla says " I look forward to your reply.. a reply that will most assuredly NOT contain substantiation of your claim."

Thrilla nails it once again..

At least that makes one of us who has been proven correct in this thread... and it only took one post to be proven... not 11 pages and counting.

Oh thrilla, you were so close. you would have finally posted something worthy of a debate forum if I hadn't already posted the "substantiation" of my claim. I'm sorry thrilla, not only are your posts rather childish they are dishonest as well. Here you "misparaphrased" the point of my thread.

Thrilla said:
you forgot the part where you claim Obamacare is the direct cause of all these start-ups.

There was nothing in my posts for you to conclude that was my point so when I first read it I just figured it was just the typical conservative confusion I deal with so much. Well the problem is you understood my point because you previously posted this:

Thrilla said:
you've yet to establish evidence of your claim.... prove to everyone that any entrepreneurial gains are directly caused by Obamacare.

I had clearly stated that lack of availability of health insurance was a known impediment to people starting their own businesses and you saying "entrepreneurial gains" proves you understood my point. Maybe we could chalk up your contradictory posts to the typical conservative rage I get when I post facts but you did it more than once. Here's the second time you purposely "misparaphrased" my point. You did this after I cleared up what I thought was just confusion on your part

Thrilla said:
a as an aside, it's too bad you didn't start this debate with the claim of Obamacare being beneficial to start-ups, or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups.... we might have agreed.... instead, you decided to fulfill you usual role as a Obama fluffer and offer up a wholly different claim that you cannot prove.
extremist partisans will never learn.... :roll:

my claim all along was Obamacare would be beneficial to startups and your "entrepreneurial gains" comment proves you understood it. so I did start this debate with the claim that Obamcare would be beneficial to startups or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups. that meets your requirments to agree with me. so how about it?

and hey thrilla, go apply your requirement that "the debate should start with the facts" to all the conservative narratives about Obamacare.

Thrilla · Dec 2, 2015

no, you claim has not been that "Obamacare would be beneficial to startups".... that is simply not true, as evident by your own posts.

allow me to quote Vern from his very first post.

thanks to Obamacare, 1.5 million more people will be self employed.

so which is it Vern, were you lying then, are are you lying now?

Vern · Dec 2, 2015

Thrilla said:
no, you claim has not been that "Obamacare would be beneficial to startups".... that is simply not true, as evident by your own posts.

allow me to quote Vern from his very first post.

so which is it Vern, were you lying then, are are you lying now?

er uh thrilla, I've documented your dishonesty. I used your own words to show you trying to distort what I said when you previously posted you understood my point. Not only does your post not address your dishonesty but I don't understand what you think you've proven. I know you think this a chat room but maybe you should read the report before you respond. Focus on table 2

Table 2 shows the estimated number of those who would have been self-employed in each state in the year 2014
in the absence of health care reform, our projected estimate taking into account the effect of the ACA, and the difference
between the two (i.e., the effect of health reform). Overall, we estimate that the number of self-employed people in the
United States will be about 1.5 million higher following the universal availability of non-group coverage, the financial
assistance available for it, and other related market reforms."

http://www.rwjf.org/content/dam/farm/reports/issue_briefs/2013/rwjf406367

you'll see in table 2 they actually break out the projected increase ( or as you would say "entrepreneurial gains" ) in each state due to the universal availability of non group coverage. So I just don't understand how me posting a study showing "Obamacare being beneficial to start-ups, or even Obamacare being a key component in some/many start-ups" makes me a liar. So please explain. Absent of any attempt on your part to explain how my first post is dishonest, I'll just assume its just a dishonest attempt on your part to deflect from your documented dishonesty.

Vern · Mar 15, 2017

uh oh, another oversight by republicans in their zeal to no longer repeal Obamacare. they forgot about entrepreneurs. Sure they'll screw over veterans, women, poor people, middle class people, basically the 99% but not entrepreneurs. so clearly their lack of attention to that is just an oversight right?

In the Republican rush to get a bill passed, the impact of health-care policy on entrepreneurship isn't even part of the discussion.

Most economists and policy analysts predict the Republican bill will drive the cost of health insurance up. When coupled with the disappearing ACA subsidies, the result will be new entrepreneurs who can't afford to cover themselves or their families while their business gets off the ground.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/op-ed-heres-one-group-133045217.html

the good news is that lottery winners got a lot of attention.

Obamacare to unleash the American “entrepreneurial spirit”

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