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Army picks Sig 320 to Replace M9

apdst said:
Being a cop and soldiering are two different environments. A rifle with a trigger safety, in the field would be highly susceptible to an accidental discharge.
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That's because a rifle doesn't sit in a holster with the trigger protected. A pistol does and as such a pistol with out a manual safety is not going to fire unless someone intentionally pulls the trigger.
 
apdst said:
In the field, it's too easy for a trigger to be accidentally depressed.
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How exactly is the trigger on a pistol in its holder going to get depressed. I have been carrying a glock in places like Iraq Afghanistan and the jungles of the Philippines and Okinawa for closing my in on a decade. Not once has mine or anyone else's pistol fired without someone intentionally pulling the trigger.
 
braindrain said:
Yes because the Army has never been known to make mistakes. Somehow police all over the country don't have an issue with AD their Glocks. And seeing as how it is one of the most popular firearms within law enforcement of it was an actual problem it would have shown up. Not to mention your average cop get quite a bit less firearms training that a soldier.
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Cops don't operate in the same environment that soldiers do. You should be able to understand the environmental differences.

I know you've seen accidental discharges, as it is. There's truth to the old saying about making thing, "soldier proof".

Let's don't pretend, either, that cops don't have, "any problems", with accidental discharges.

According to training officer Jeremy Harlow, the deputy, whose name has not been released, was putting on the thigh holster when the belt's fastening prong became trapped in the holster and set off the trigger on the Smith & Wesson M&P while the deputy was trying to free it. A bullet from the semi-automatic weapon struck the deputy. He has not yet returned to work.

Video: CA Sheriff's Office Seeks to Prevent Future Accidental Discharges - News - POLICE Magazine
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The officer, who works for East Cleveland and as a volunteer reserve for Cuyahoga Falls, told authorities that he was unloading his 9mm Glock 19 inside his home when it went off accidentally at 3:35 p.m.

Ohio Officer's Gun Discharges at Home, Bullet Flies into Daycare Center with No Injury - News - POLICE Magazine
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Sheriff's officials say that the increase in accidental discharges — from 12 in 2012 to 30 last year — occurred because deputies were adjusting to the new gun. They expect the numbers to fall in the years ahead. So far this year, the department has recorded seven accidental discharges, five of which involved the new weapon.

But the problems may not be over, as more deputies switch to the Smith & Wesson M&P9. In response, department officials have imposed extra training requirements.

Rise in Accidental Gunshots by L.A. County Deputies Follows New Firearm - News - POLICE Magazine
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More where those came from:

Search Result: Accidental Discharges - POLICE Magazine
 
braindrain said:
How exactly is the trigger on a pistol in its holder going to get depressed. I have been carrying a glock in places like Iraq Afghanistan and the jungles of the Philippines and Okinawa for closing my in on a decade. Not once has mine or anyone else's pistol fired without someone intentionally pulling the trigger.
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Ask this guy.

A Sweetwater, Fla., police officer was recovering Monday after his holstered gun discharged and hit him in the leg while he was chasing shoplifting suspects at Dolphin Mall.

Florida Officer Shot with Own Holstered Gun During Foot Pursuit - News - POLICE Magazine
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If you've never seen an accidental discharge since you've been in the service I'd say you're lucky and definitely the exception.
 
braindrain said:
That's because a rifle doesn't sit in a holster with the trigger protected. A pistol does and as such a pistol with out a manual safety is not going to fire unless someone intentionally pulls the trigger.
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As I've demonstrated, that's not true. A gun is a mechanical apparatus and like any other mechanical apparatus, it can and will fail. It happens so much, that the Army has an MOS dedicated to trouble shooting and repairing small arms. I'm sure you have at least one school trained 45B on your team.
 
apdst said:
Cops don't operate in the same environment that soldiers do. You should be able to understand the environmental differences.

I know you've seen accidental discharges, as it is. There's truth to the old saying about making thing, "soldier proof".

Let's don't pretend, either, that cops don't have, "any problems", with accidental discharges.







More where those came from:

Search Result: Accidental Discharges - POLICE Magazine
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The environment has nothing to do with AD. The only way a modern firearm fires is if someone pulls the trigger. Period. Doesn't matter if you are in downtown New York City or the mountains of Afghanistan.

And yes I have seen ADs. Most of them with the M4. Which does have a manual safety and all of them because either someone was careless and didn't properly clear his weapon or because someone was being stupid and playing with their weapon. A manual safety is not going to change either of those two problems.
 
apdst said:
Ask this guy.



If you've never seen an accidental discharge since you've been in the service I'd say you're lucky and definitely the exception.
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I simply don't believe his story. It is virtually impossible for a weapon like a glock to fire unless you actually pull the trigger. My money is own he screwed up and came up with a story to avoid admitting he shot himself.

I have seen ADs before. And like I said all were due either to improper clearing or being stupid. Nothing a manual safety will fix as the majority were with a M4.
 
braindrain said:
The environment has nothing to do with AD. The only way a modern firearm fires is if someone pulls the trigger. Period. Doesn't matter if you are in downtown New York City or the mountains of Afghanistan.
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Someone, or something. I've seen accidental discharges take place from foreign objects snagging the trigger.

A hunter was leading his horse through thick oak brush; a loaded rifle was in the scabbard. A tree limb apparently caught the trigger, the rifle fired and the bullet hit the horse and the hunter. Both recovered; but it took some time to catch the horse. When the rifle was found, it had a fired case in the chamber and the safety was off.

Colorado Parks & Wildlife - CPW News Release
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And yes I have seen ADs. Most of them with the M4. Which does have a manual safety and all of them because either someone was careless and didn't properly clear his weapon or because someone was being stupid and playing with their weapon. A manual safety is not going to change either of those two problems.
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A trigger safety would amplify that problem.
 
braindrain said:
I simply don't believe his story. It is virtually impossible for a weapon like a glock to fire unless you actually pull the trigger. My money is own he screwed up and came up with a story to avoid admitting he shot himself.

I have seen ADs before. And like I said all were due either to improper clearing or being stupid. Nothing a manual safety will fix as the majority were with a M4.
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Don't like that one?

An elk hunter was running in an attempt to get ahead of some elk. When he stumbled and fell, he shot himself through the leg with his .308 rifle. Never run while carrying a loaded gun.
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It's no where near virtually impossible for an accidental discharge to occur. Murphy's Law rules when it come to accidental discharges.
 
braindrain said:
That's because a rifle doesn't sit in a holster with the trigger protected. A pistol does and as such a pistol with out a manual safety is not going to fire unless someone intentionally pulls the trigger.
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Bingo!Someone that knows that the Safety is between their Ears.
 
Ive heard a lot of stories that many people have shot themselves while handling Glocks due to it not having a manual safety.

 
apdst said:
Don't like that one?



It's no where near virtually impossible for an accidental discharge to occur. Murphy's Law rules when it come to accidental discharges.
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The difference between a gun going off by itself while in a holster and a guy pulling the trigger while tripping is so far apart they can barely see each other.

So did his hunting rifle not have a manual safety.
 
PoS said:
Ive heard a lot of stories that many people have shot themselves while handling Glocks due to it not having a manual safety.

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There also tons of people who shot themselves accidentally with virtually every type of firearm. Don't be an idiot and a Glock is as safe as any other weapon.
 
braindrain said:
The difference between a gun going off by itself while in a holster and a guy pulling the trigger while tripping is so far apart they can barely see each other.

So did his hunting rifle not have a manual safety.
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Your claim of virtual impossibility is obviously false.
 
apdst said:
The evidence I've posted.
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You posted one persons highly unlikely claim which didn't even claim what you are trying to. The cop said his weapon went off in his holster. Not a thing about something getting in there and pulling the trigger. Either way the cop is more likely then not lying.
 
PoS said:
Ive heard a lot of stories that many people have shot themselves while handling Glocks due to it not having a manual safety.

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Stupidity is not stopped by a manual safety. :)

But manual safeties can be put on a glock.


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I wonder if Trump will force them to change to an american brand. Since the Sig is manufactured in USA, maybe he wont take up the issue, but he has implied 'buy american', so that the profits stay in the US. What would be a US brand thats a good alternative?

Ruger? SW? Remington?

How about a SW 1911?
 
jonny5 said:
I wonder if Trump will force them to change to an american brand. Since the Sig is manufactured in USA, maybe he wont take up the issue, but he has implied 'buy american', so that the profits stay in the US. What would be a US brand thats a good alternative?

Ruger? SW? Remington?

How about a SW 1911?
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Springfield Armory, S&W, Colt, Remington, and so on. He won't thought. I doubt he knows much about guns.


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