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Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pistol of

Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

beerftw said:
By the early 1990s, most M1911A1s had been replaced by the Beretta M9, though a limited number remain in use by special units. The U.S. Marine Corps (USMC) in particular were noted for continuing the use of M1911 pistols for selected personnel in MEU(SOC) and reconnaissance units (though the USMC also purchased over 50,000 M9 pistols


that is from wikipedia, it even mentions the units the kept them were special forces, mainly marines under soc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1911_pistol#Replacement_for_most_uses
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about what I was thinking. still a great high end pistol, just not for the masses
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

braindrain said:
Actually it's one of the best combat rifles ever built but you are welcome to your opinion.
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My experience tells me different and actual evidence say different. The AR will never be in the league of the FAL, or the G-3.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Militant_Vegan_ said:
about what I was thinking. still a great high end pistol, just not for the masses
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Most of the frames used for the meusoc pistol are from ww2, which is why us socom and the marines have been looking for replacements in .45 cal, because even as reliable as the were, their frames are reaching the point of unserviceability.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

beerftw said:
The ar-15 is a great battle platform. It has medium firepower, low recoil, medium length, medium range etc. It is a jack of all trades master of none, which is very usefull for the military. A soldier well trained or even moderately trained to use an ar15 can handle multiple situations with a single rifle, rather than needing a long range and close range weapon.
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It's good, not great. The round is too small for it's velocity and it is too prone to stoppages.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
It's good, not great. The round is too small for it's velocity and it is too prone to stoppages.
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The round is the right size, it was chosen because more ammo could be carried on the same amount of weight vs 7.62. In a firefight there is often alot of cover fire, and more ammo means more cover fire allowing your team to progress to the target.


And what do you mean too prone to stopages?
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

beerftw said:
And what do you mean too prone to stopages?
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I don't get this either, unless we're talking about the original M-16 that didn't have a forward assist and the field units in the Vietnamese jungle weren't sent cleaning kits.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
My experience tells me different and actual evidence say different. The AR will never be in the league of the FAL, or the G-3.
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And my real world experience and that of thousands of others says different then you. It's every bit a as good a combat rifle as either of those. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

braindrain said:
And my real world experience and that of thousands of others says different then you. It's every bit a as good a combat rifle as either of those. They all have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Too light of a caliber and a propensity to stoppages are weaknesses are unacceptable and they're the two biggest problems the AR platform has. That and it's gas operated.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Brewdog said:
I don't get this either, unless we're talking about the original M-16 that didn't have a forward assist and the field units in the Vietnamese jungle weren't sent cleaning kits.
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The a1 also did not have chrome plated barrels and the ammo issued was prone to absorbing moisture and swelling, causing it to jam or not fire at all. The cleaning kits and the no nickel plating was because some wizkids never implemented it so the bigwigs said if they didnt add it it isnt needed.

The a2 and after is extremely reliable, so long as the user knows how to maintain them. Biggest issues seem to be extremely worn out magazines, yes some units are still using 20 round mags from vietnam for training that have no spring tension left. The other issue is too much oil while cleaning them.

I found you want to clean them well, then soak every part in clp to make sure it soaks into the porous parts of the metal, then wipe it down to where it is slick but feels dry. Any more oil than that soaks up carbon soot, while minimal oil allows it to fire hundreds of rounds without jamming(actually did a few thousand out of one rifle zero jams, had to dispose of ammo because some idiot opened multiple boxes that were not needed)
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
Too light of a caliber and a propensity to stoppages are weaknesses are unacceptable and they're the two biggest problems the AR platform has. That and it's gas operated.
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If you had to hump ammo cans, you'd like that 5.56. And with the forward assist on all the later models, you can force the round into the chamber even if you have a horribly dirty weapon.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

beerftw said:
(actually did a few thousand out of one rifle zero jams, had to dispose of ammo because some idiot opened multiple boxes that were not needed)
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Haha, I'd forgotten that. Shooting tons of rounds because the armorer otherwise has to count every single loose round leftover. That's the only time I ever used three round burst was to burn ammo at the end of the day that they didn't want to check back in to the armory.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Brewdog said:
I don't get this either, unless we're talking about the original M-16 that didn't have a forward assist and the field units in the Vietnamese jungle weren't sent cleaning kits.
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Exactly. The current M16/M4 is an extremely reliable weapon. I have shot literally thousands of rounds both suppressed and unsupprrdsed with zero cleaning and nothing more then putting some oil on the bolt.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
Too light of a caliber and a propensity to stoppages are weaknesses are unacceptable and they're the two biggest problems the AR platform has. That and it's gas operated.
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As neither of those to claims are accurate they really don't have much bearing on the conversation. And pretty much all rifles are gas operated. The difference is where the gas acts on the gun to cycle it.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

braindrain said:
As neither of those to claims are accurate they really don't have much bearing on the conversation. And pretty much all rifles are gas operated. The difference is where the gas acts on the gun to cycle it.
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The FAL and the G-3 are recoil operated. And, yes a light caliber and prone to stoppages are absolutely correct concerning the AR. The stoppages issue was alleviated some in Fabrique Nationale units, but only modrrately. It still fires a round that is way too light for the battlefield.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Brewdog said:
Haha, I'd forgotten that. Shooting tons of rounds because the armorer otherwise has to count every single loose round leftover. That's the only time I ever used three round burst was to burn ammo at the end of the day that they didn't want to check back in to the armory.
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Yeah but usually not thousands of rounds. The private doing it was fresh out of ait and had no idea what she was doing, and the e6 in charge left her to handle it with no instructions, so he could take a humvee back to the main camp and get drunk in his room.

The never demoted him, being the national guard, but they did make him clean every rifle after we had to fire all those rounds from boxes she opened. They also made him strip the wax off the floor every drill for a year so the night crew could rewax it so the sgt major could see his reflection in it.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
The FAL and the G-3 are recoil operated. And, yes a light caliber and prone to stoppages are absolutely correct concerning the AR. The stoppages issue was alleviated some in Fabrique Nationale units, but only modrrately. It still fires a round that is way too light for the battlefield.
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Technically they are roller delayed blowback.

No it's only your opinion. I have shot nothing but Colt M4s and every one has been extremely reliable.
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

braindrain said:
Technically they are roller delayed blowback.

No it's only your opinion. I have shot nothing but Colt M4s and every one has been extremely reliable.
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my 1911's have never misfired. that doesn't prove a thing though
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Militant_Vegan_ said:
my 1911's have never misfired. that doesn't prove a thing though
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You're a militant, progressive, vegan dressed as Elton John. Where do you keep your pistol? Under your dress?
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Brewdog said:
You're a militant, progressive, vegan dressed as Elton John. Where do you keep your pistol? Under your dress?
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That's what I call putting the "militant" in vegan. :shoot
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

Μολὼν λαβέ;1066420822 said:
Choice for SF.

Here's why:



and my 2 cents:

#7 It's modular.

Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pistol of Choice for SF - The Firearm Blog
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yeah heard that a couple weeks ago

good idea. though I believe the SW MP is a ergonomically better weapon which is why its beating the GLOCKS in USPSA production matches, the GLOCK has 30 years proven track record of reliability and durability
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

apdst said:
I think you got lucky. The Glock isn't a combat firearm, period. If I was in the service, I would refuse to carry a Glock.
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uh Why? because it doesn't have a manual safety?
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

ecofarm said:
Rangers were using 1911s recently? I was a paratrooper in the early 90s and we had Berettas, 1911s had been gone for some time.
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My Nephew served two combat tours in Iraq as a captain in the rangers. His Lts carried Berettas. He said he preferred using the room on his belt to carry extra frags which he thought were better for house clearing operations which was what he and those under him were doing most of the time. after his second combat tour in Iraq he was asked to attend Q school and now is a Major in the First Special Forces group, Ft Lewis WA. before his promotion and his attending school in Monterey California necessary for the promotion, he ran an A camp in Afghanistan for 16 Months IIRC. He said most of the men who had pistols had the Berettas. He did mention someone he served with packing a Kimber 1911 in 45 ACP-I don't recall if it was in the rangers or SF. He also noted (when he comes home to see his parents, we get some range time in) that on one operation, he was working with SEALS and they were carrying Sigs-he believed they were 226s but they could have been 229s.

He did not have GLOCKS when he was a Ranger
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

TurtleDude said:
uh Why? because it doesn't have a manual safety?
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It doesn't have a manual safety, nor a hammer. It should have one of the other, at a minimum.
 
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Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

TurtleDude said:
My Nephew served two combat tours in Iraq as a captain in the rangers. His Lts carried Berettas. He said he preferred using the room on his belt to carry extra frags which he thought were better for house clearing operations which was what he and those under him were doing most of the time. after his second combat tour in Iraq he was asked to attend Q school and now is a Major in the First Special Forces group, Ft Lewis WA. before his promotion and his attending school in Monterey California necessary for the promotion, he ran an A camp in Afghanistan for 16 Months IIRC. He said most of the men who had pistols had the Berettas. He did mention someone he served with packing a Kimber 1911 in 45 ACP-I don't recall if it was in the rangers or SF. He also noted (when he comes home to see his parents, we get some range time in) that on one operation, he was working with SEALS and they were carrying Sigs-he believed they were 226s but they could have been 229s.

He did not have GLOCKS when he was a Ranger
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The Army transitioned from the 1911 to the M9 in the early 90's. The primary weapon for armored vehicle drivers back then was a side arm and I remember the transition. Tankers had shoulder holsters and Bradley drivers were issued flap holsters (yeah, don't ask me...lol).
 
Re: Breaking: Rangers Go Glock, Is the US Army Soon to Follow? 1911s Not Longer Pisto

I think some of this (or maybe all of it) has to do with Glock getting a huge contract. I think it's a fine weapon, sure. But the military will likely take those other weapons out of service and cut them into small bits. They won't resell them. And there's tens of millions of dollars in new contracts for Glock.

I experienced this. I carried an H&K USP .40 for eight years and LOVED it. Semi-compact, light, accurate.... Sweet pistol. And then my supervisor told me one day that the entire agency was going to Sigs and I had to trade out. I said, "WTF man! I don't want a Sig! I want my H&K! Spend that $900 to buy another bomb to drop on some small village somewhere." (That went over well, as you can imagine).

But I had to switch and the Sig was fine. I didn't like it as much as my H&K, but it's a great pistol. But I knew it for what it was... There was nothing wrong with my H&K or any of our weapons, but someone with Sig lobbied the gov't in DC to sell us new weapons. So they took all our other pistols and sh1tcanned them. They destroyed them. What a waste of money. And sometimes I think about the fate of my poor, dear old H&K.
 
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