Green Beret Kicked Out Of Army For Attacking Afghani Child Rapist Breaks Silence

Oozlefinch said:

And would you then be crying because you were caught doing that and facing a court martial for Article 118?

Remember, I have no sympathy at all for the guy he bodyslammed, I might have well done the exact same thing in his shoes. But that would not absolve me of the crime I did in my anger, rage, and frustration. I feel bad for the guy, but also recognize what he did was illegal.

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The consequences would be whatever they are, assuming I was caught. I sure as **** wouldn't just not do anything while someone is being raped in my immediate area. I simply could not live with myself if I had done nothing.

RabidAlpaca said:

The consequences would be whatever they are, assuming I was caught. I sure as **** wouldn't just not do anything while someone is being raped in my immediate area. I simply could not live with myself if I had done nothing.

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Notice, I am not passing any kind of jusdement on what the SFC actually did, simply that if he violated orders for doing so, he must pay the price for it. Sure it sucks, just as sometimes child rapists get out of punishment for the crimes, and even murderers here in the US get away with it.

Does not justify taking matters into your own hand however. But sometimes, life just sucks.

Oozlefinch said:

And when you do so, you take responsibility for your actions, and the consequences you incur from them.

In this case, he took the action and now is paying for his action. If he had done this in the US I would have expected the same result. You simply do not take the law into your own hands, especially as a senior NCO.

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You simply do when the alternative is to sit by and watch a child getting harmed. Anyone that would do that isnt deserving of the title of NCO and damn sure is no leader. Consequence? Sure. Bring it. But it wouldnt change a thing.

VanceMack said:

You simply do when the alternative is to sit by and watch a child getting harmed. Anyone that would do that isnt deserving of the title of NCO and damn sure is no leader. Consequence? Sure. Bring it. But it wouldnt change a thing.

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Funny, but when I first became an NCO 30 years ago, I knew that my most important goal was the accomplishment of the mission. Everything else (even the welfare of those who serve under me) is secondary.

What was his mission exactly? Training and trying to imrpove relations with the military and leadership in Afghanistan, or trying to conduct his own justice without orders or authorization?

Remember, *I* personally applaud him for what he did, but I can also see why it has cost him his career at the same time. The same way I can applaud some vigilante who has an illegally concealed handgun and blows away a mugger who tried to attack him. I can applaud him, and at the same time have no problem with his facing the punishment for having an illegally concealed weapon.

Oozlefinch said:

Funny, but when I first became an NCO 30 years ago, I knew that my most important goal was the accomplishment of the mission. Everything else (even the welfare of those who serve under me) is secondary.

What was his mission exactly? Training and trying to imrpove relations with the military and leadership in Afghanistan, or trying to conduct his own justice without orders or authorization?

Remember, *I* personally applaud him for what he did, but I can also see why it has cost him his career at the same time. The same way I can applaud some vigilante who has an illegally concealed handgun and blows away a mugger who tried to attack him. I can applaud him, and at the same time have no problem with his facing the punishment for having an illegally concealed weapon.

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Depends on what your mission is, doesnt it. If your mission is to sit back and provide protection for boys being raped, then in that situation, you should say nothing. If your mission is to facilitate the domination of a people by a military backed group as oppressive than the ones you just kicked out...again...well done.

Id take the consequences.

Agreed - and the rapist should have suffered much more than a body slam

VanceMack said:

If your mission is to sit back and provide protection for boys being raped, then in that situation, you should say nothing.

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Oozlefinch said:

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I'd possibly trust you to be in charge of the tool crib. I can say that for you.

VanceMack said:

You simply do when the alternative is to sit by and watch a child getting harmed. Anyone that would do that isnt deserving of the title of NCO and damn sure is no leader. Consequence? Sure. Bring it. But it wouldnt change a thing.

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Is a person's military duty to enforce their own personal beliefs or is it to follow orders given? If he really wanted to help the boy he'd have given the rapist a condom.

reinoe said:

Is a person's military duty to enforce their own personal beliefs or is it to follow orders given? If he really wanted to help the boy he'd have given the rapist a condom.

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Ask the guards at the ovens. Would you have turned the valves? After all...they were just following orders...

VanceMack said:

Ask the guards at the ovens. Would you have turned the valves? After all...they were just following orders...

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this^

just following orders hasn't been a valid excuse since Nuremberg.

justabubba said:

bull****. that is like saying the soldiers in william calley's command deserved to be court martialled because they disobeyed his direct orders to fire upon non-threatening civilian women and children during the my lai massacre

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Disobeying those orders was and is entirely legal. You clearly know nothing of military law if you believe all direct orders must be followed.

ecofarm said:

Disobeying those orders was and is entirely legal. You clearly know nothing of military law if you believe all direct orders must be followed.

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This is why nobody has ever in the history of modern Military Justice ever been convicted of "disobeying an order".

As anybody who has a more then passing familiarity with the UCMJ can tell you, to be convicted of Article 92, first it must be proven that the order was lawful.

Article 92—Failure to obey order or regulation

Any person subject to this chapter who—
•
(1) violates or fails to obey any lawful general order or regulation;

(2) having knowledge of any other lawful order issued by a member of the armed forces, which it is his duty to obey, fails to obey the order; or

(3) is derelict in the performance of his duties; shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”

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Bold mine.

Twice in my career I was involved in Court Martials (as a witness - not as an accused) for charges of Article 92. In both cases, they had to prove that the order violated was lawful before they could even begin the court martial process. If the order was not lawful, the person can not be convicted. And I myself have "violated orders" a great many times in my career. One in particular that comes to mind was when I was ordered to do a personal errand for a Lieutenant. I did not do it, and he threatened to give me an Article 15 Non Judicial Punishment.

I of course went to JAG, informed them of the circumstances, and suggested that I request a Court Martial. That was the furthest any such charge against me ever went, and the LT dropped it the next day after the Company Commander found out about it and told him he was being an idiot.

My Lai is a perfect example of such an unlawful order. The UCMJ does not protect somebody of following an unlawful order. In fact, they can be prosecuted for following an order they know to be unlawful (like purposefully shooting unarmed and non-agressive civilians).