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Why I hate Civilians - A Military-member's Manifesto

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Abbazorkzog said:
This should have ended the thread. What an uneducated and bigoted OP of epic stupidity and uncivilized primitive inability to function in modern day society. I say to him: "Well, by all means, go back to the Middle-East and vent your hatred for humanity via an unmitigated ape-like wrath upon some jihadists, since you are incapable of being a functioning, normal human-being.
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Ironically, I generally got along with those "Jihadists" better than many of my own countrymen.

That is probably because I do not carry around any kind of prejudices, and do not separate people into "us" and "them". I see all as equal, until they prove to me otherwise.

But far to many "Leftists" see everything in life as "Us vs. them", with the "them" being absolutely worthless, and without voice.

SayMyName said:
This has to be the strangest thread I have ever read.
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Imagine my shock at returning after 6 months to find it is alive and going again.

Funny how much I still love my little drunken rant, all these years later.

And on how accurate it still is. I still could not give a **** about politics.

Tangmo said:
Because two-thirds to three-quarters of active or retired career military personnel are socio-culturally and politically right of center or political rightwingers.
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I do not think I would agree with that. I think more than anything, the number tends towards "Conservative Moderates". The numbers of Conservatives and Liberals (Democrats and Republicans) is roughly about 50-50, but they tend to care more about things that the Republicans do (military, international affairs, national defense) than they do about typical Democratic issues (health care, welfare, safe spaces for non-binary individuals).

Even decades later, we tend to think of our former brothers and sisters. So when we hear about some trying to cut military benefits or forcing them to use the same equipment that we used 30 years ago instead of spending the money to buy some newer stuff, we tend to get a bit incensed.
 
Tangmo said:
But then again it is explained by the fact you are a lifer, an NCO and a U.S. Marine without a normal civilian Code. Your only code in civilian life is politics.
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Then you should love me. A lifer and an NCO, who absolutely detests politics.

Tangmo said:
You lost the war in Iraq Marine Gunnery Sergeant.
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We did?

Where is the Ba'ath Party then?

ThoughtEx. said:
Ah, political civilians. So in this representative democracy, we should shut up and just allow ourselves to be ruled as you and your masters see fit.
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Ahhh, yet another of the brain dead who either does not get it, or is mad because I dare to speak up and have a thought of my own that does not come through them.

A "Political Civilian" is not a "Politician", nor a "Civilian". They are the type of person to which politics is everything.

They wake up in the morning, drinking Free Nation Coffee, while eating Free Range Eggs, and Gluten Free Toast, then get into their Hybrid SUV to drive to work, all mad because everybody is not willing to live as they do.

Want to know something? I really could not care what anybody's politics are. I only get pissed when they insist on trying to cram them down my throat.


ThoughtEx. said:
The military serves, political civilians rule through representatives. You don't like it, go serve in the Kuwait military.
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I have almost no words to how absolutely disgusting that thought is.

And no, "political civilians do not rule". This is the ****ing United States of America, nobody "RULES" here. What kind of ****ing retarded mindset thinks that people "rule" in this country?

And last time, "political civilians" are not politicians. Reading comprehension, try it.

d0gbreath said:
The Tet-offensive shows otherwise.
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You mean the offensive in 1968, where the VC was eliminated as a threat, and the NVA was almost totally destroyed?

You are aware that it was the high losses in this offensive that largely forced North Vietnam to sue for peace, are you not?

Which ultimately led to the Paris Peace Accords, where the war ended, and the US pulled out in 1973.

And with no US troops in the area, North Vietnam then violated, invading and destroying South Vietnam in 1975.

Yea, that claim of yours makes a lot of sense.

Fledermaus said:
No. It was the civilian Commander in Chief.
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Actually, ultimately it is Congress.

The President can actually order very little, the real power is in Congress.

Manc Skipper said:
Jingoistic crap is what it is, glossing the fact that a bunch of gooks with guns ran you out of town.
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"gooks"?????

Yea, and I suppose a bunch of "niggers with spears" gave you a bloody nose in Africa, right?

Excuse me for that, but one thing I can never stand nor comprehend, is the love of some people to use racial slurs.

And BTW, "Gooks" are Koreans. The term you were trying to find is "slopes".

If you are going to be a racist, at least be a proper racist with the correct racist words.
 
d0gbreath said:
The whole thing was a microcosm of the cold war. Our leaders were afraid to lose Vietnam to communism because they thought the Big C would spread throughout the Indo-China sub-continent.
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And would you say the same if they were say Fascist instead of Communist?

Funny, on how often you can get a glimpse into the mindset of those who oppose the Vietnam War. Almost universally, Leftists opposed it.

JANFU said:
More often than not, explaining what, why and giving a differing side, with correct information did change many a person’s view. Others were so anti-Military it was not worth the time or effort.
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Pretty much my experience as well.

I have my mission, and do my mission. My own beliefs have nothing to do with the mission.

But far to many simply can not separate the two. And they have such an antagonistic attitude that they do not understand they may be alienating those who would generally support them if not for the antagonism.

Fledermaus said:
Got any EVIDENCE to back up your various claims?

No, didn't think so.
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There is a reason I have that individual blocked out.

Never says anything if importance, backs up nothing. Not worth the time.

KevinKohler said:
Not surrendering =\= winning.
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What was the goal?

Eliminating North Vietnam, or ending the invasion of South Vietnam?

Quite simple really. The intent was to end the invasion of South Vietnam.

And the Paris Peace Accords did just that. North Vietnam recognized South Vietnam, and agreed to let them live in peace and ended their invasion.

Yea, to bad they were not honorable, and broke their word less than 2 years later.

I guess it is the fault of the US that they broke their word as well.

apdst said:
There is no "state of Palestine".
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There might have been, if the Arab nations had not refused to give up the Palestinian land they controlled, and placed all of their Palestinian citizens into concentration camps.

What I think I find most ironic in all of that, is that nobody likes to talk about how Egypt and Trans-Jordan refused to give up the land in the UN Mandate to allow Palestine to be made. They occupied it for decades, until Israel took it away from them.

Then opened it up for Palestinian settlement.
 
Tangmo said:
The Right Sector has to do better than its boilerplate
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And a good sample to explain why I detest politics.

Fledermaus said:
Laying the loss on the NCOs is complete stupidity.
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Maybe he is trying to detract from the fact that most of the war was fought (and lost - by their own claims) by Democrats?

Geoist said:
If that is this guy's definition of "conservative" then the vast majority of Americans are "conservative."
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Then why do the Liberals-Democrats claim that the majority of Americans are behind them when they do things like the ACA, and break wide open transgender in the military? Even to the point of forcing the military to pay for their surgery?

Is that very "conservative"?

Yes, most people do tend to get nervous and question things like that, yet the Democrats claim everybody (who is not racist-homophobe-etc) is on their side.
 
Tangmo said:
You need to rehash all the wars you lost.

You can begin any time now thx.
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Sorry, that is not how it works.

You made the claim, you have to back up your own claim. DO not make a claim and then expect others to back it up for you. That is the ultimate in being lazy, stupid, and trying to avoid answering.

But OK, I will answer for you. You left it up to another to answer, so here is your answer.

The wars the US lost after WWII.

None.

Not like that answer, then give us your own, and why it is the correct one.
 
Tangmo said:
When I (necessarily) do otherwise as I have the free will to do, predicated on the historical record and my own assessments and evaluations and analysis
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Is that anything like the Historic Dialectic?

Tangmo said:
The late USMC Major-General Smedley D. Butler who twice won the Medal of Honor, spent his retirement writing his book about it and speaking out about it...
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Yes he did, he was a real hero.

He was also a career political animal, and rather nutso towards the end of his life.

His father was a politician (31 year Congressman), and he often used that influence in order to gain benefits. Like his 2 years as the Director of Public Safety in Philadelphia (where he was not wanted for a second term), and his attempt to force them to extend him (even having his father try to get the President to force Philadelphia to keep him).

In fact, the situation was so bad that he had claimed he would stay to "clean up Philadelphia no matter what". After which an enraged Mayor demanded his resignation. His reputation in Philadelphia is more like that of a dictator, who ignored the law and did pretty much whatever he wanted.

Then his largely being shuffled to various desk jobs in the Marines, because none of the senior leadership trusted him (he was well known for trying to use his political influence). And when they needed to pick a new Commandant he was not even considered, so he resigned instead.

But he still could not resist "double-dipping", being one of those who helped plan the Oregon State Police, while still on duty with the Marines.

Then he had an embarrassing Senate race, where he was defeated in a landslide.

After which, he switched and became a Socialist. But even then, he was a member and leader in the Veteran's of Foreign Wars (VFW).

Now remember that, it is very important.

The Business Plot. A claim that a sewing machine salesman went to Smedley promising him the control of the American Legion if he would help him overthrow the government.

Prior to WWII, the American Legion and VFW were strongly opposed to each other. You could belong to one or the other, never both. Yet this half-cocked plot is so beloved by the conspiracy theorists, that they overlook that dear old Smedley was going off of his rocker.

Shortly after that nonsense became public, he withdrew from the public eye until he dies in 1940.

If somebody believes in the "Business Plot", as a general rule I consider them to be nutcases. The entire thing, beginning to end, "members" to goal makes absolutely no sense at all.
 
Brewdog said:
It's because the OP is a pog. If you don't know what a pog is, then you're a ****ing pog.
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Sorry, try again.

10 years 0311.

Marine Barracks, Seal beach
Fox Company 2/2 2nd MarDiv
Marine Barracks, Mare Island Naval Shipyard

And after that, 14T, operator of a PATRIOT Launcher in Charlie 1-43 ADA.

Let's see, 15 years in combat arms. No, not a POG.

And if you think I was ranting against civilians, your reading comprehension must be pretty damned low.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Sorry, that is not how it works.

You made the claim, you have to back up your own claim. DO not make a claim and then expect others to back it up for you. That is the ultimate in being lazy, stupid, and trying to avoid answering.

But OK, I will answer for you. You left it up to another to answer, so here is your answer.

The wars the US lost after WWII.

None.

Not like that answer, then give us your own, and why it is the correct one.
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You need to read your own thread.

Check out post 441 for instance but it is one among many posts to the thread. In fact, there are 100+ of Gunny's pages of it at several threads to include one Gunny started with my name in lights in it.

I've documented thoroughly and repeatedly the facts and the historical record. Gunny is however going to continue to post until I get it right. You too apparently now join him in demanding I get it right.

Principally and chiefly, the retired lifer career USMC noncom right who are Internet Rats right. Not every single retired lifer noncom, but principally youse guyz...the ones who in civilian life continue to be the loudmouth ones. The people who after 30 years of daily regimens in the military enter civilian life where they disrespect the Constitutional rights of civilian citizens and who worship the flag as an untouchable icon that is superior to the Constitution. Then use the language of violence against civilian citizens about it in their posts...again and always.

Retired Lifer NCO Internet Rats who demand stridently that civilians comport to their military minds, habits, regimens, discipline.

Again, there are 100+ pages of Gunny's troopings through several threads to include your own. Your post and its oblivious and unsolicited advice show how far away from the documented historical record you are, to also include The Gunny. Youse guyz as civilians are fish out of water. You're lifers for, well, life...literally. Failure to adjust.
 
Oozlefinch said:
And would you say the same if they were say Fascist instead of Communist?

Funny, on how often you can get a glimpse into the mindset of those who oppose the Vietnam War. Almost universally, Leftists opposed it.



Pretty much my experience as well.

I have my mission, and do my mission. My own beliefs have nothing to do with the mission.

But far to many simply can not separate the two. And they have such an antagonistic attitude that they do not understand they may be alienating those who would generally support them if not for the antagonism.



There is a reason I have that individual blocked out.

Never says anything if importance, backs up nothing. Not worth the time.



What was the goal?

Eliminating North Vietnam, or ending the invasion of South Vietnam?

Quite simple really. The intent was to end the invasion of South Vietnam.

And the Paris Peace Accords did just that. North Vietnam recognized South Vietnam, and agreed to let them live in peace and ended their invasion.

Yea, to bad they were not honorable, and broke their word less than 2 years later.

I guess it is the fault of the US that they broke their word as well.



There might have been, if the Arab nations had not refused to give up the Palestinian land they controlled, and placed all of their Palestinian citizens into concentration camps.

What I think I find most ironic in all of that, is that nobody likes to talk about how Egypt and Trans-Jordan refused to give up the land in the UN Mandate to allow Palestine to be made. They occupied it for decades, until Israel took it away from them.

Then opened it up for Palestinian settlement.
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Palestine is the name of a geographical region; like the Sierra-Navadas, or the Hamptons, or even better, the Llano Escatado. Palestinians are a modern advent; they aren't, nor have they ever been a nationality, or an etnicity.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Then why do the Liberals-Democrats claim that the majority of Americans are behind them when they do things like the ACA, and break wide open transgender in the military? Even to the point of forcing the military to pay for their surgery?
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Much of the idea behind the ACA was proposed by the Heritage Foundation in the 90s and one does not have to be a conservative to oppose the last example. You said you support the status-quo (whatever that is) and that change should come gradually. You seem to contradict yourself there as those who want status-quo typically do not want change, gradual or immediate. Most Americans would identify as moderates so if they do want change then naturally they would want it to be gradual.
 
apdst said:
Palestine is the name of a geographical region; like the Sierra-Navadas, or the Hamptons, or even better, the Llano Escatado. Palestinians are a modern advent; they aren't, nor have they ever been a nationality, or an etnicity.
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Even if what you said was true (which it is not), believing they are not a unique group does not excuse the apartheid that exists in Israel.
 
Geoist said:
Even if what you said was true (which it is not), believing they are not a unique group does not excuse the apartheid that exists in Israel.
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My post is absolutely accurate. Live with it.

The apartheid exists inbthe Palestinian Authority. Jews don't have rights in the PA. In Israel, Arabs have the right to vote.
 
Oozlefinch said:
<<snip>>

I still could not give a **** about politics.

I do not think I would agree with that. I think more than anything, the number tends towards "Conservative Moderates". The numbers of Conservatives and Liberals (Democrats and Republicans) is roughly about 50-50, but they tend to care more about things that the Republicans do (military, international affairs, national defense) than they do about typical Democratic issues (health care, welfare, safe spaces for non-binary individuals).

<<snip>>
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Most civilian Americans who are Conservative are self-described "somewhat conservative." The particular finding is a part of the larger USA political-cultural picture going back to the 1950s.

Most military personnel active duty or retired are Republicans or are Independent who vote Republican consistently. They are, for example, not necessarily Republicans who are in historical terms well known as "business" Republicans, to include average Republican voters, not exclusively the corporate Republicans in their offices.

From the research of this 2016 election that is also connected to elections going back to the 1950s that ID conservatives, liberals, moderates.



Plenty of polls found that Trump did well among moderates and exit polling BORE THAT OUT. What’s striking is that he often did as well or better among self-described “somewhat conservative” voters. It was only with very conservative voters that he lagged, though not always by much:


capture20.png






In most elections somewhat conservatives were the largest bloc (40+% of voters), and outside of the Northeast moderates were always the smallest bloc, so a large plurality of Trump SUPPORTERS were somewhat conservative:


capture21.png



https://veracities.online/2016/06/03/overview-trump-voters-vi-conservatism-and-policy/


The long term data document that most Republicans and most Democrats who vote are closer to the political center than they are to the extremes. Many Independents are not in between the two parties but they are, rather, closer to the extremes than to the center, to include self-described Libertarians.

As to military personnel compared (or, literally contrasted) to civilian private citizens, the military are much more ideological, much more political in their attitudes but not in their behaviors, and they are much more conservative than the average citizen or the average Republican.

Retired career lifer NCOs are definitely dominant at the Internet discussion boards in comparason to any other single subgrouping of retired military personnel. Most retired military personnel, retired Commissioned Officers especially, to include many retired lifer NCOs, make the move over to civilian life to carry on with their life.

However, a number of gung-ho militant ideological and personally angry retired lifer NCOs become Internet Rats at general interest discussion boards. Without ever denouncing the Constitution they took an oath to uphold, preserve, defend, protect, they rant their rightwingnut political-cultural values against its very principles and precepts. When the fact is pointed out to them, they object and deny. Some of 'em get hot under the collar to curse and denounce civilians citizens as a class of society -- the mass humongous majority of the society.
 
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apdst said:
My post is absolutely accurate. Live with it.

The apartheid exists inbthe Palestinian Authority. Jews don't have rights in the PA. In Israel, Arabs have the right to vote.
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You have no clue.

Three key features characterize Israeli apartheid:

Four million Palestinians in the Occupied Territories lack the right to vote for the government that controls their lives through a military occupation. In addition to controlling the borders, air space, water, tax revenues, and other vital matters pertaining to the Occupied Territories, Israel alone issues the identity cards that determine the ability of Palestinians to work and their freedom of movement.

About 1.2 million Palestinian Israelis, who make up 20 percent, or one-fifth, of Israel’s population, have second-class citizenship within Israel, which defines itself as a Jewish state rather than a state for all its citizens. More than 20 provisions of Israel’s principal laws discriminate, either directly or indirectly, against non-Jews, according to Adalah: The Legal Center for Minority Rights in Israel.

Millions of Palestinians remain refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and elsewhere, unable to return to their former homes and land in present-day Israel, even though the right of return for refugees is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Israel?s apartheid policies against Palestinians.
 
Geoist said:
You have no clue.

Three key features characterize Israeli apartheid:

Four million Palestinians in the Occupied Territories lack the right to vote for the government that controls their lives through a military occupation. In addition to controlling the borders, air space, water, tax revenues, and other vital matters pertaining to the Occupied Territories, Israel alone issues the identity cards that determine the ability of Palestinians to work and their freedom of movement.

About 1.2 million Palestinian Israelis, who make up 20 percent, or one-fifth, of Israel’s population, have second-class citizenship within Israel, which defines itself as a Jewish state rather than a state for all its citizens. More than 20 provisions of Israel’s principal laws discriminate, either directly or indirectly, against non-Jews, according to Adalah: The Legal Center for Minority Rights in Israel.

Millions of Palestinians remain refugees in Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, and elsewhere, unable to return to their former homes and land in present-day Israel, even though the right of return for refugees is enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
Israel?s apartheid policies against Palestinians.
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I posted well known facts. Get with the program.
 
apdst said:
Palestine is the name of a geographical region; like the Sierra-Navadas, or the Hamptons, or even better, the Llano Escatado. Palestinians are a modern advent; they aren't, nor have they ever been a nationality, or an etnicity.
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Oh for goodness sakes.

Tell me, do you accept that words change over time?

Here is something to think about. In Hebrew, the words "Palestine" and "Philistine" are the same.

So I guess the Philistine's are a modern invention as well, eh?

BTW, "Americans" are a modern invention in the same way.

Geoist said:
Even if what you said was true (which it is not), believing they are not a unique group does not excuse the apartheid that exists in Israel.
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There are some big differences there.

In South Africa, the only reason for restrictions was almost purely based on race.

However, if enclaves of blacks in South Africa were constantly launching mortar and rocket attacks at white enclaves, then I think you would find a great many agreeing that the restrictions were a fair reaction.

Tangmo said:
Most civilian Americans who are Conservative are self-described "somewhat conservative." The particular finding is a part of the larger USA political-cultural picture going back to the 1950s.

Most military personnel active duty or retired are Republicans or are Independent who vote Republican consistently.
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You know, you are doing absolutely nothing to make me rethink my viewpoints here.

Are you even capable of making any kind of statement that is not political? Even more important, are you able to make any kind of statements that do not demonize those you seem to believe you should be at war with?

Geoist said:
Four million Palestinians in the Occupied Territories lack the right to vote for the government that controls their lives through a military occupation.
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So wait, the Palestinian government was not elected? And one half of that government (Hamas) has not also been at war with the other half (Fatah) for the last decade or more?

Gee, imagine that. Going to tell me I have no clue now also?
 
Oozlefinch said:
There are some big differences there.

In South Africa, the only reason for restrictions was almost purely based on race.
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Race or ethnicity, it matters not.

However, if enclaves of blacks in South Africa were constantly launching mortar and rocket attacks at white enclaves, then I think you would find a great many agreeing that the restrictions were a fair reaction.
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Are you saying there were no terrorist acts in apartheid South Africa? You would be wrong to make such a claim.

When you back an animal into a corner it tends to lash out.
 
Oozlefinch said:
So wait, the Palestinian government was not elected? And one half of that government (Hamas) has not also been at war with the other half (Fatah) for the last decade or more?

Gee, imagine that. Going to tell me I have no clue now also?
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Oh, they can vote within their territories, but they cannot vote in the country which governs them.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Cherrypicking.

Sorry, all I have seen is over 10 pages of you evading questions, and twisting your own words.
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You have suddenly swooped back in and have gone all over the place while posting in the way you'd bellow to a platoon of Marine grunts. Which is to say you're not getting the hang of this civilian thingy here sarge. You'd be wrong to think you bear and have the imperative to hunker down to smack people around (so to speak) until we get it right. Nobody's life is on the line here Top. We're civilians. Lifer civilians. So get with the program.

And hey, while your Patriot missile battery assignment during time-in would be of some interest at a Military Forum, you might consider waiting to be invited to present your major duty assignments from here on out. Because it's the kind of thing any combat arms trained professional killer would do as ordered by the state command authority and on down. So there's nothing special about it. (I myself save my war stories of the myriad long nights in the clubs and bars of the Military District of Washington DC for the American Legion hall where they're quite the hit, if I must say so myself thx.)

Again, read your own thread. Then read the other 70 or so pages at the other three or four threads The Gunny has opened or seized control over. Be up to date, i.e., informed cause I've posted a lot about the post-1945 military ops, conflicts, wars. (Somebody btw did you the unfavor so to speak of resurrecting this petrified thread but despite the best efforts of some of us to drive the proverbial stake through its murmering heart it has risen yet again, this time by your own command and hand.)

The undead thread conceived in the mist of a dark and foggy night.
 
Geoist said:
Are you saying there were no terrorist acts in apartheid South Africa? You would be wrong to make such a claim.
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Not at all. But they pale when compared to those that continue to this very day from Palestine aimed at Israel.

And do not forget, Palestine is at this time an independent nation. Essentially, a state of war (declared by Hamas) exists between Palestine and Israel.

Geoist said:
Oh, they can vote within their territories, but they cannot vote in the country which governs them.
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So what, Israel governs Palestine?

Then why on earth has the Gaza Strip elected Hamas as it's leadership?

Sorry, please explain that to me, because it makes no sense.

Tangmo said:
And hey, while your Patriot missile battery assignment during time-in would be of some interest at a Military Forum
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*looks up at the placement of this thread*

Funny, this is not a "military forum"?

Forum, Political forums, Military

Yea, that is what I thought. In case you did not realize, this *IS* a military forum.

Next whine please?

Tangmo said:
Your posts have more cherries in 'em than a troop of Girl Scouts on Sunday.
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Actually, quite the opposite. In case you fail to realize it, I do not have any kind of political agenda. In fact, my only real interests are in truth and accuracy, as well as being non-partisan. Something that I am actually rather well known for here.

As for my leaving several months ago, that was a conscious decision. I saw this and other forums being overtaken by the election, and I made the conscious decision to leave until all of the political coprolite was over with. It is not over, but it has toned down quite a lot in the last 2 months.

And if you notice, I take no prisoners nor do I pick sides when it comes to pointing out mistakes. Ask apdst, who one could say I "caucus with" quite frequently. But even that will not stop me from pointing out a mistake.

You however are a political animal, they very kind of individual I largely hold in contempt. And your twisting and turning in an attempt to evade simply shows that more and more.
 
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