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Tearing Down Detroit: Demolishing Houses for the Economy

Dibbler

Dibbler

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Detroit’s seen a staggering 140,000 foreclosures in the last decade. Tens of thousands of homes have been left abandoned, turning entire neighborhoods into an urban wasteland. The Obama administration has been pumping billions of dollars into the Motor City in an effort to revive it, and last week the president paid Detroit a visit to see if the federal funding has had any effect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZsGFCcf2U
 
Dibbler said:
Detroit’s seen a staggering 140,000 foreclosures in the last decade. Tens of thousands of homes have been left abandoned, turning entire neighborhoods into an urban wasteland. The Obama administration has been pumping billions of dollars into the Motor City in an effort to revive it, and last week the president paid Detroit a visit to see if the federal funding has had any effect.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4ZsGFCcf2U
Click to expand...


Tough situation for one of our formerly great, rust-belt cities.
The factory jobs disappeared and so did a lot of the people.
Pittsburgh has re-bounded from the loss of the steel industry.
Hopefully, Detroit will make a comeback, too.
 
I'd love to see Detroit come back, but I have my doubts. That city has been mismanaged for years and the rust belt wasn't helpful either. I have family up there who are basically trapped. They cannot sell their home and values are so low they'd lose a lot of money on it.
 
Well gee Mr. President, if Detroit's making a comeback because the auto industry came back, why did you pump $1.4 billion more after the $80 billion from the auto bailout? And why did the city have to be assigned an emergency manager?
 
radioman said:
Tough situation for one of our formerly great, rust-belt cities.
The factory jobs disappeared and so did a lot of the people.
Pittsburgh has re-bounded from the loss of the steel industry.
Hopefully, Detroit will make a comeback, too.
Click to expand...

Why do you suppose most of the suburbs are doing really well and Detroit isn't?
 
It's good to see some progress is being made, and a 14% increase in real-estate prices is a good start.

And that guy buying-up and renting-out the houses really got my attention!

$1400.00 purchase price?

And he now owns & rents 5 on the same block?

He looked cleanly dressed and manicured, so maybe he is making a few bucks & is on to something. Let's hope.
 
JC Callender said:
Why do you suppose most of the suburbs are doing really well and Detroit isn't?
Click to expand...
Since you seem to be from Detroit, perhaps you'd care to share your opinions?

It's my understanding that downtown Detroit is have a renaissance of sorts, whereas out in the neighborhoods it's pretty desolate.

Is this true?
 
Chomsky said:
Since you seem to be from Detroit, perhaps you'd care to share your opinions?

It's my understanding that downtown Detroit is have a renaissance of sorts, whereas out in the neighborhoods it's pretty desolate.

Is this true?
Click to expand...

Parts of downtown are pretty nice. We have an area called "Greektown" with some nice restaurants and have two new ballparks. Dan Gilbert, owner of Quicken Loans, is buying up properties down there, so there are some areas that are being revitalized. There are a few other areas throughout the rest of Detroit that are pretty nice as well, but I would say that at least 80% of the city couldn't meet the standards of a poor, run down suburb. It's really odd driving into certain (well, many) parts of Detroit if you don't live there, as most of the suburbs are very clean, and many parts of Detroit have trash blowing around like tumbleweeds in the old west, graffiti everywhere, 3' tall weeds growing in the cracks of sidewalks. I remember seeing a fistfight several years ago in a suburb outside of a Taco Bell at about 2 am on a weekend, and that's the only one outside of high school I ever remember. I've seen three of them right on main streets in Detroit having spent 1/10,000 of the amount of time down there. There's obviously rampant crime and the 911 response time is appalling. The fire department simply doesn't have the gear they need to properly fight fires. They're just getting the lights turned on on many city streets that have burnt out years ago. They've also had to have an emergency manager as they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so yeah, it's bad.
 
JC Callender said:
Parts of downtown are pretty nice. We have an area called "Greektown" with some nice restaurants and have two new ballparks. Dan Gilbert, owner of Quicken Loans, is buying up properties down there, so there are some areas that are being revitalized. There are a few other areas throughout the rest of Detroit that are pretty nice as well, but I would say that at least 80% of the city couldn't meet the standards of a poor, run down suburb. It's really odd driving into certain (well, many) parts of Detroit if you don't live there, as most of the suburbs are very clean, and many parts of Detroit have trash blowing around like tumbleweeds in the old west, graffiti everywhere, 3' tall weeds growing in the cracks of sidewalks. I remember seeing a fistfight several years ago in a suburb outside of a Taco Bell at about 2 am on a weekend, and that's the only one outside of high school I ever remember. I've seen three of them right on main streets in Detroit having spent 1/10,000 of the amount of time down there. There's obviously rampant crime and the 911 response time is appalling. The fire department simply doesn't have the gear they need to properly fight fires. They're just getting the lights turned on on many city streets that have burnt out years ago. They've also had to have an emergency manager as they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so yeah, it's bad.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

So it does sound like the downtown is revitalizing, maybe more than I thought!

I'm sure you're right about most of the neighborhoods, though. In the video, with so many missing houses, empty lots, and lack of businesses and overgrown foliage, it looked more like a semi-rural community than a major city!

But I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of Detroit.

Tearing down the excess housing is a good start, and if Detroit is like other industrial cities the first to move into the lofts and abandoned factories will be the artists. musicians, and others that require working or performing space. Then the young & hip start coming drawn to the creative artsy scene, and soon business that cater to the young & hip follow, and suburbanites eventual flow into the neighborhood on weekends dropping cash in local businesses. If that point can be hit, the neighborhoods usually succeed, since the young & hip eventually become less young, and have to deal with the pragmatic realities and needs of raising families - if, they don't abscond to the suburbs! That's a big if.

I've seen the above pattern occur quite a bit.

The other key will be the continued transition to a non-industrial economy, and that's obviously more difficult than in some other cities due to Detroit having been a bit of a one-trick pony ("The Motor City"). Sooner or later as the local economy continues to improve and the population continues to grow, those cleaned-up neighborhood will begin to make economic sense to some new residents,

I hope this continues and gets there, because I'm old enough to remember before the rise of L.A., the city mentioned in the same breath as "Chicago & New York", was always "Detroit" - not "L.A." It's ironic, because I just had this discussion about "CHGO-DET-NY" recently, where it was brought to my attention by a middle-aged gentlemen formerly of Detroit.
 
JC Callender said:
Parts of downtown are pretty nice. We have an area called "Greektown" with some nice restaurants and have two new ballparks. Dan Gilbert, owner of Quicken Loans, is buying up properties down there, so there are some areas that are being revitalized. There are a few other areas throughout the rest of Detroit that are pretty nice as well, but I would say that at least 80% of the city couldn't meet the standards of a poor, run down suburb. It's really odd driving into certain (well, many) parts of Detroit if you don't live there, as most of the suburbs are very clean, and many parts of Detroit have trash blowing around like tumbleweeds in the old west, graffiti everywhere, 3' tall weeds growing in the cracks of sidewalks. I remember seeing a fistfight several years ago in a suburb outside of a Taco Bell at about 2 am on a weekend, and that's the only one outside of high school I ever remember. I've seen three of them right on main streets in Detroit having spent 1/10,000 of the amount of time down there. There's obviously rampant crime and the 911 response time is appalling. The fire department simply doesn't have the gear they need to properly fight fires. They're just getting the lights turned on on many city streets that have burnt out years ago. They've also had to have an emergency manager as they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so yeah, it's bad.
Click to expand...

Something tells me this city has not been run by smart, competent, conservative people.
 
It seems to me, unless there is a wholesale change in the philosophy of Detroit's elected officials, a comeback is going to be an impossible task. The infrastructure of Detroit has been damaged, perhaps beyond repair. Large multistory office buildings have been abandoned and left to be stripped of their critical infrastructure.

Restoring Detroit must include honest discussion of the cost of tearing much of it down in order to rebuild it anew. That discussion doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
 
Chomsky said:
Since you seem to be from Detroit, perhaps you'd care to share your opinions?

It's my understanding that downtown Detroit is have a renaissance of sorts, whereas out in the neighborhoods it's pretty desolate.

Is this true?
Click to expand...

No. There is plenty of wildlife. ;)
 
Chomsky said:
Interesting.

So it does sound like the downtown is revitalizing, maybe more than I thought!

I'm sure you're right about most of the neighborhoods, though. In the video, with so many missing houses, empty lots, and lack of businesses and overgrown foliage, it looked more like a semi-rural community than a major city!

But I'm cautiously optimistic about the future of Detroit.

Tearing down the excess housing is a good start, and if Detroit is like other industrial cities the first to move into the lofts and abandoned factories will be the artists. musicians, and others that require working or performing space. Then the young & hip start coming drawn to the creative artsy scene, and soon business that cater to the young & hip follow, and suburbanites eventual flow into the neighborhood on weekends dropping cash in local businesses. If that point can be hit, the neighborhoods usually succeed, since the young & hip eventually become less young, and have to deal with the pragmatic realities and needs of raising families - if, they don't abscond to the suburbs! That's a big if.

I've seen the above pattern occur quite a bit.

The other key will be the continued transition to a non-industrial economy, and that's obviously more difficult than in some other cities due to Detroit having been a bit of a one-trick pony ("The Motor City"). Sooner or later as the local economy continues to improve and the population continues to grow, those cleaned-up neighborhood will begin to make economic sense to some new residents,

I hope this continues and gets there, because I'm old enough to remember before the rise of L.A., the city mentioned in the same breath as "Chicago & New York", was always "Detroit" - not "L.A." It's ironic, because I just had this discussion about "CHGO-DET-NY" recently, where it was brought to my attention by a middle-aged gentlemen formerly of Detroit.
Click to expand...

I just met a hipster who bought a house in Detroit. He told me it was a really bad street about 4 years ago, but has gotten better. Sorry, for me, 4 years isn't long enough to feel safe enough to invest in a house, but nevertheless him and his family are doing it. If kind of happens in Detroit from time to time where the artsy type (as you suggested) come in, but then the city's overwhelming negativity seems to drown out those small successes. Demolishing these old buildings will actually go a long way in revitalizing Detroit, because they are eyesores and dens for criminal activity, so we'll see. I certainly would love to see Detroit get better.
 
ocean515 said:
It seems to me, unless there is a wholesale change in the philosophy of Detroit's elected officials, a comeback is going to be an impossible task. The infrastructure of Detroit has been damaged, perhaps beyond repair. Large multistory office buildings have been abandoned and left to be stripped of their critical infrastructure.

Restoring Detroit must include honest discussion of the cost of tearing much of it down in order to rebuild it anew. That discussion doesn't seem to be forthcoming.
Click to expand...

The mayor before our current one, Kwame Kilpatrick, is in jail now for massive corruption. The city council isn't any better. I have heard good reviews about our current mayor though but it's hard to tell because our governor has assigned an emergency manager to basically run the city's finances until they're properly restructured, and Obama has given billions to the city, so I think anyone will look better than our former mayor under these circumstances.
 
JC Callender said:
The mayor before our current one, Kwame Kilpatrick, is in jail now for massive corruption. The city council isn't any better. I have heard good reviews about our current mayor though but it's hard to tell because our governor has assigned an emergency manager to basically run the city's finances until they're properly restructured, and Obama has given billions to the city, so I think anyone will look better than our former mayor under these circumstances.
Click to expand...

I am an unabashedly geeked out car nut, JC. I'll never forget my first trip to Detroit to meet with the Little Caesars Pizza folks in the restored Fox Theater. As my Emerald City of the automotive world, I was shocked into silence as I drove up Woodward Avenue to their corporate offices. I had no idea what had become of the Detroit of my dreams.

I am encouraged by the "makers" movement and the grit and determination they are showing in taking over abandoned buildings to help build a brighter future. I wish all Detroiters all the best. However, what caused Detroit's demise must never be forgotten.
 
JC Callender said:
I just met a hipster who bought a house in Detroit. He told me it was a really bad street about 4 years ago, but has gotten better. Sorry, for me, 4 years isn't long enough to feel safe enough to invest in a house, but nevertheless him and his family are doing it. If kind of happens in Detroit from time to time where the artsy type (as you suggested) come in, but then the city's overwhelming negativity seems to drown out those small successes. Demolishing these old buildings will actually go a long way in revitalizing Detroit, because they are eyesores and dens for criminal activity, so we'll see. I certainly would love to see Detroit get better.
Click to expand...
How can anyone not root for the city that gave us Barry Gordy, and Motown?

But one more little tidbit: There was a time, back in the 60's, when the good citizens of Detroit had the highest per-capita income of any city in the country! Yep - higher than NY, Chgo, L.A.!

It was due to the good high-wage union auto-plant jobs, coupled with a booming post war economy, along with everyday American's fascination with the automobile and having to get one of their own! Kinda' hard to believe today, and some people don't believe me when I tell them, and they're blown away.

But it's true, the average working-man in Detroit was financially better-off than his counterpart anywhere else in the country. How do you think they could afford to buy those new cars every year, even with the employee discount? :mrgreen:
 
JC Callender said:
Parts of downtown are pretty nice. We have an area called "Greektown" with some nice restaurants and have two new ballparks. Dan Gilbert, owner of Quicken Loans, is buying up properties down there, so there are some areas that are being revitalized. There are a few other areas throughout the rest of Detroit that are pretty nice as well, but I would say that at least 80% of the city couldn't meet the standards of a poor, run down suburb. It's really odd driving into certain (well, many) parts of Detroit if you don't live there, as most of the suburbs are very clean, and many parts of Detroit have trash blowing around like tumbleweeds in the old west, graffiti everywhere, 3' tall weeds growing in the cracks of sidewalks. I remember seeing a fistfight several years ago in a suburb outside of a Taco Bell at about 2 am on a weekend, and that's the only one outside of high school I ever remember. I've seen three of them right on main streets in Detroit having spent 1/10,000 of the amount of time down there. There's obviously rampant crime and the 911 response time is appalling. The fire department simply doesn't have the gear they need to properly fight fires. They're just getting the lights turned on on many city streets that have burnt out years ago. They've also had to have an emergency manager as they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so yeah, it's bad.
Click to expand...

How're the 'Wings doing?
 
JC Callender said:
Pretty good, 26-18. I don't really follow hockey much though, unfortunately, because they sure did have a great run!
Click to expand...

Ah, good.
Back in the day- original 6 days, when I was a kid, I was a 'Wings fan because I thought God was spelled, H-O-W-E.
'Course, if you don't follow hockey you probably don't know who Gordie Howe was.
 
Grand Mal said:
Ah, good.
Back in the day- original 6 days, when I was a kid, I was a 'Wings fan because I thought God was spelled, H-O-W-E.
'Course, if you don't follow hockey you probably don't know who Gordie Howe was.
Click to expand...

We all know Gordie Howe in Detroit!
 
no relief for swindled and otherwise down on their luck homeowners, oh but hey, goldman sachs needs a bailout out, get em to fort knox pronto!

or how about taxing that billionaire bridge owner or sports team owner who live it up while the city that feeds them crumbles
 
JC Callender said:
Parts of downtown are pretty nice. We have an area called "Greektown" with some nice restaurants and have two new ballparks. Dan Gilbert, owner of Quicken Loans, is buying up properties down there, so there are some areas that are being revitalized. There are a few other areas throughout the rest of Detroit that are pretty nice as well, but I would say that at least 80% of the city couldn't meet the standards of a poor, run down suburb. It's really odd driving into certain (well, many) parts of Detroit if you don't live there, as most of the suburbs are very clean, and many parts of Detroit have trash blowing around like tumbleweeds in the old west, graffiti everywhere, 3' tall weeds growing in the cracks of sidewalks. I remember seeing a fistfight several years ago in a suburb outside of a Taco Bell at about 2 am on a weekend, and that's the only one outside of high school I ever remember. I've seen three of them right on main streets in Detroit having spent 1/10,000 of the amount of time down there. There's obviously rampant crime and the 911 response time is appalling. The fire department simply doesn't have the gear they need to properly fight fires. They're just getting the lights turned on on many city streets that have burnt out years ago. They've also had to have an emergency manager as they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so yeah, it's bad.
Click to expand...

I really don't see the point of trying to rebuild detroit now. Back when it had 1 million+ sure, there was something to salvage. Now, there's no need to spend a weekend there, when there's a thriving college town just half an hour away

Better to spend those billions relocating people out of detroit
 
chromium said:
no relief for swindled and otherwise down on their luck homeowners, oh but hey, goldman sachs needs a bailout out, get em to fort knox pronto!

or how about taxing that billionaire bridge owner or sports team owner who live it up while the city that feeds them crumbles
Click to expand...

The bridge owner is going to be out on his luck soon. The US-Canadian governments are building a new and much bigger bridge next to it soon. I'm all for that since the current Ambassador bridge is old and too small to handle the increased traffic. There's always a lane closed and you're sandwiched in with a bunch of freight trucks.

I'd love to see some of the old rust belt cities down on their luck spring back like Detroit and Buffalo. It seems that Pittsburgh and Cleveland have come back but the rest are still struggling.
 
Tearing down some of the run down areas seems like a good idea. Who wants to buy into a neighborhood that looks like a war zone? It hurts me to see these beautiful old buildings in such disrepair, and once thriving American city being so devastated. Good luck, Detroit. Make a come back soon.
 
Chomsky said:
How can anyone not root for the city that gave us Barry Gordy, and Motown?

But one more little tidbit: There was a time, back in the 60's, when the good citizens of Detroit had the highest per-capita income of any city in the country! Yep - higher than NY, Chgo, L.A.!

It was due to the good high-wage union auto-plant jobs, coupled with a booming post war economy, along with everyday American's fascination with the automobile and having to get one of their own! Kinda' hard to believe today, and some people don't believe me when I tell them, and they're blown away.

But it's true, the average working-man in Detroit was financially better-off than his counterpart anywhere else in the country. How do you think they could afford to buy those new cars every year, even with the employee discount? :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

..and it was that high wage that was a big contributor to pushing the jobs out of Detroit. When you're faced with strong competition and your business has practices in place that make it tough to compete, you have make changes to survive. The American auto industry in Detroit made the tough choices and pulled a lot of the industry out of Detroit.
 
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