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The 1967 War

mbig

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(Mods please move this to 'history' if you feel it appropriate.
It's timely to today's debates but some may feel it's more historical in nature.)

Recent posting referring to the 1967 borders, and the usual dubious and disjointed 'zionist quotes' posted by Shanners have made a short trip back necessary.
The internet is filled with 'zionist quotes' "....tha ...look li...this...."
Some are outright frauds, others inverted or altered by the likes of early Benny Morris work- others just leaving portions which reverse meanings.
Many are real quotes but disjointed post/pre-war or war-room speculation.

Better and more honest in determining what happened is a coherent chronology, along with some leaders quotes.
May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula.
The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action.

(mbig note: Strange move for someone playing defense and not itself planning attack)


May 15: Three Egyptian army divisions and 600 tanks roll into the Sinai. World community does nothing.

May 17: Cairo Radio's Voice of the Arabs: "All Egypt is now prepared to plunge into total war which will put an end to Israel."

May 18: Voice of the Arabs announces: "As of today, there no longer exists an international emergency force to protect Israel. We shall exercise patience no more. We shall not complain any more to the UN about Israel. The sole method we shall apply against Israel is a total war which will result in the extermination of Zionist existence."


May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war.

(US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more Responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and Dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")


May 20: Syria's defence minister (ex-president) Hafez el-Assad says: "Our forces are now ready not only to repulse the aggression but to initiate the act of liberation itself, and to explode the Zionist presence in the Arab homeland. The Syrian army, with its finger on the trigger, is united ..."

May 27: Nasser: "Our basic objection will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight."

May 30: Nasser : "The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel."

May 30: Jordan's King Hussein signs a five-year mutual defence pact with Egypt and the two set up a joint command, making clear its stance in any future conflict.

My 31: Egyptian newspaper Al Akhbar reports: "Under terms of the military agreement signed with Jordan, Jordanian artillery, co-ordinated with the forces of Egypt and Syria, is in a position to cut Israel in two ..."

May 31: Iraqi President Rahman Aref announces: "This is our opportunity to wipe out the ignominy which has been with us since 1948. Our goal is clear--to wipe Israel off the map."

June 4: Iraq joins Nasser's military alliance against Israel.

June 5: Six Day War begins: Israeli Airforce attacks airfields in Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.
Excerpted from the more complete:
The Six-Day War, The 6-Day War, 1967 - The Peace FAQ
 
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Of course sources from the other side are appropriate; especially ones quoted fairly and with links/context to their own websites.

It seems even King Hussein and the Official Jordanian website agree with Prez LBJ that Nasser brought this on:

"....By the spring of 1967, the situation had become extremely intense. On May 16, Nasser SHOCKED the World by asking the United Nations to withdraw its forces from Sinai.
To the Surprise of many, his request was Honored two days later.
Moreover, the Egyptian president Closed the Straits of Tiran on May 22.

Sensing that War was Now Likely
, King Hussein aligned Jordan firmly with Egypt, suggesting an Egyptian-Jordanian Mutual Defense Treaty. Nasser immediately accepted the idea, and the treaty was signed on May 30. The treaty stipulated that Jordan’s forces were to be placed under the command of Egyptian General Abdul Moneim Riad. Iraq also signed the pact..."

Jordan - History - The Disaster of 1967


That's KingHussein.Gov.Jo/his_periods3.html calling Nasser's actions "Shocking" and Bellicose ("moreover, closing the Straits") and it was He who made War inevitable.
 
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The 1967 war is a textbook example of a legitimate preemptive war in which a sovereign state responded when confronted with an imminent and credible threat to its existence and after it had already suffered aggression (from the illegal closure of the Strait of Tiran's international waters).
 
It's also quite common to hear the allegation Israel started the war with aggression and territory in mind.
Anything but.

The Six Day War: Forty Years On - honest reporting
[......]
Jordan Initiates War With Israel: Israel Captures Jerusalem and the West Bank

Despite the many terrorist attacks that had emanated from the Jordanian-occupied West Bank, Israel specifically told King Hussein that Jordan would not be attacked unless Jordan chose to enter the war. As the fighting raged, Prime Minister Levy Eshkol sent the following message to King Hussein of Jordan:
"We are engaged in defensive fighting on the Egyptian sector, and we shall not engage ourselves in any action against Jordan, unless Jordan attacks us. Should Jordan attack Israel, we shall go against her with all our might."​
However, upon receiving information (later proving false) that Israel was being defeated, King Hussein ordered that Israel be attacked. On June 5:
[.......]
Only after coming under fire and sustaining casualties did the Israeli military respond, resulting in the re-unification of Jerusalem and control of the entire West Bank. The record is clear, this acquisition of land was the direct result of Jordanian, not Israeli military aggression."

One week later, having successfully defended herself, Israel was in control of the West Bank, the Sinai Peninsula, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights.'.."
And in fact, Israel didn't even know what to do with said won territories and offered them Back in exchange for mere recognition!
The Arabs, at the Khartoum conference in August of that year, Refused. The famous 'Three nos'.
Only thus "Occupation." And in the case above, of the Jordan-annexed West Bank. There was No 'Palestine.'
 
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The 6 day war started by Israel.People can try and twist it all they want but the fact is that they attacked first therefore starting the war and they are still occupying land illegally from that war according to all the international community.
 
The 6 day war started by Israel.People can try and twist it all they want but the fact is that they attacked first therefore starting the war and they are still occupying land illegally from that war according to all the international community.
Is this Intentionally Obtuse, or just emptily combative?

No one is denying Israel started the pre-emptive war- nor Ever has.

The question being answered is Why and the justification for it.
 
The question being answered is Why and the justification for it.

There is no justification for it, it is illegal under international law.

Article 2, Section 4 of the U.N. Charter is generally considered to be 'jus cogens' (literally: "compelling law", in practice: "higher international law"), and prohibits all U.N. members from exercising "the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state"

Preemptive war - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Egypt's act of closing the Straits of Tiran was in response to Israeli preparations for a major attack on Syria, of which some in the Israeli government said should seek the removal of the government and occupation of Damascus. If you look carefully at the rhetoric often cited from Nasser and Assad, they were threatening massive retaliation to an offensive operation, not threatening to initiate one themselves. They foresaw Israel initiating a war and it is for that reason these countries took all the actions that Israel knowingly distorted as being preparation for imminent war.
 
Egypt's act of closing the Straits of Tiran was in response to Israeli preparations for a major attack on Syria, of which some in the Israeli government said should seek the removal of the government and occupation of Damascus. If you look carefully at the rhetoric often cited from Nasser and Assad, they were threatening massive retaliation to an offensive operation, not threatening to initiate one themselves. They foresaw Israel initiating a war and it is for that reason these countries took all the actions that Israel knowingly distorted as being preparation for imminent war.

This is true but funny how it never ever gets in the Israeli version of events.
 
Egypt's act of closing the Straits of Tiran was in response to Israeli preparations for a major attack on Syria, of which some in the Israeli government said should seek the removal of the government and occupation of Damascus. If you look carefully at the rhetoric often cited from Nasser and Assad, they were threatening massive retaliation to an offensive operation, not threatening to initiate one themselves. They foresaw Israel initiating a war and it is for that reason these countries took all the actions that Israel knowingly distorted as being preparation for imminent war.
This is true but funny how it never ever gets in the Israeli version of events.
Maybe because it's a LIE/Not true. Funny too Che responds/bluffs AS IF he knew the falsehood.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[21] Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19) and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[22][23] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or justification for war.[24][25]
Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May 22–23. On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[26] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War.
I find I can always go to wiki and find where DoL got his info--- and twisted it. Thus no link.
Ironically for Che, that footnote [21] from Benny Morr!s/Ian Black
 
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Maybe because it's a LIE

It is not a lie.It happens to be in all the good history books about the 6 day war. I think you should leave wikipedia behind and get some real books that discuss the war in depth.
 
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I posted this on Peace in the Middle East but it also gives a simple chronology leading to the 6 Day war. Its important to understand with their history they are never going to let themselves be someones party bitches ever again.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/70273-peace-middle-east.html
Go to link for full post which covers events past 67.




Written in 2003

Had I not had to travel to Israel for work, I would most likely not know any more about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict then I did this time two years ago, which is pretty much saying I only know they really like ****ing killing each other. But when your boss says you're going to Israel for a week, you sure can turn your attention to world affairs in a ****ing hurry. Keep in mind all this violence started on the very day my first trip there ended back in September 2000. I mean we took off and things were great, and when we landed back in New Jersey all the headlines featured the riots breaking out. It was that fast.

Anyway I digress, the purpose of me writing this jazzy little article is to explain to those of you who don't know (or really give a ****) what all this Middle East **** is about and where it's most likely going. And I’m going to do so without wasting too much time on the trivial details or political backspins.

To understand current events, let’s take a fast look into the past to see if we can’t see a cycle of events here.

So let us first turn back the hands of time, to when life first formed here on Earth. Deep in the muck and protoplasmic slime, we see two groups of single celled organisms. Those from Group-A begin throwing microscopic flecks of stardust at Group-B, who in return fire back with microscopic rubber bullets. Then a cell from Group-A absorbs a bit of methane gas, migrates over to Group-B and promptly explodes, killing not only himself but mortally wounding several Group-B cells in the process. The remaining Group-A cells rejoice, as Group-B cells plan a counterattack after some of their cells learn they can become airborne.

These puddles of muck and slime will, after continental shift, become the lands we know as Israel and the West Bank, and yes I suspect the violence has been going on that long.

Okay now let’s spin our clocks ahead to like the 0 A.D. timeframe. In thirty words or less, Jews were enslaved by various civilizations most of which were settled in the Middle East and whose roots can be traced as the ancestors of the many Arabic countries we know today.

(You read as: Arabs enslaved the Jews since the word "go").

This you-enslave-me-but-you’ll-never-win-our-hearts-and-minds relationship went on for a bazillion ****ing generations until eventually the Jews fled their “Promised Land” and found new places to live where they weren't persecuted, and the Arabs absorbed the vacated areas.

Now spin the time dial forward to the late 1930's. The Jews have settled more or less all over Eastern Europe. Enter a short little man with a mustache and a big gas bill, and with the conclusion of WWII we also see the conclusion of some 6,000,000 more Jews. Well, at the end of WWII, the powers that be (the US along with Britain, the Soviet Union, and France -- hahaha just kidding about France) held the Jews up and said, "Holy **** you poor people, you've had the living **** kicked out of you for some few thousand years or so. Tell us where would like to live in complete sanctuary for the rest of your days?"


Presto-whiz-bango, the State of Israel was officially born. Queue bands, music, banners, food, etc, etc, etc.

Now the Israelis -- as they were now officially called -- said to themselves, "Okay we've been the party bitches for everyone pretty much since the beginning of recorded time, especially with this Holocaust thing, so we have to make sure this will never happen again." And so it was decreed that every Israeli citizen, both male and female, would spend time in the military so everyone knew how to defend their civilization. So they trained and trained and prepared and prepared, all to insure the persecution of their kind would never happen on such a monumental scale again.

Now spin the clock forward to 1967, and we find Israeli surrounded like they are today - pretty much by angry Arabs -- Syria to the North, Jordan to the East, and Egypt to the South. Israel is bordered by the Mediterranean Sea on the West for those of you geographically challenged. Well the president of Egypt at the time decided that he didn't want Israel to exist any more, so he picked up his Bat-phone and dialed all those Arab states surrounding Israel, and called upon them to wage one of their Holy Wars to, “rid the world of the Zionists pigs." (“Zionist” being a cool catch phrase for a Jew).

Israel, being prepared this time and determined not to be beaten like a rented mule, deciding they would be having none of this and popped the top on the “Extra Strength Can of Whoop Ass”. Thus commenced the "Six Day War".

Why’d they call it the Six Day War, you ask? Because that's how long it took Israel to beat the ****ing snot out of all three of their attackers. Six ****ing days. You think we whipped Iraq or Afghanistan's ass quick? Hell no. June 5th, 1967 Israel beat the **** out of Egypt, the Jordanians on the 7th, and finally the Syrians on the 9th.

So by the time the 11th rolled around, the Israeli soldiers were back in streets of Tel Aviv doing the, "We Kicked Your ****ing Arab Ass Dance", having captured lands known as the West Bank (where the Palestinians are living), the Gaza Strip (from the Egyptians), and the Golan Heights (from the Syrians). Thus the establishment of the Israelis as people not to be ****ed with and their, "If you ain't Jewish, you ain't ****," attitude.

cont at link
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/70273-peace-middle-east.html
 
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Maybe because it's a LIE/Not true. Funny too Che responds/bluffs AS IF he knew the falsehood.

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I find I can always go to wiki and find where DoL got his info--- and twisted it. Thus no link.
Ironically for Che, that footnote [21] from Benny Morr!s/Ian Black

That intel was false, but it was not what I was referring to:

The toughest threat was reported by the news agency United Press International (UPI) on 12 May: 'A high Israeli source said today that Israel would take limited military action designed to topple the Damascus army regime if Syrian terrorists continue sabotage raids inside Israel. Military observers said such an offensive would fall short of all-out war but would be mounted to deliver a telling blow against the Syrian government.' In the West as well as the Arab world the immediate assumption was that the unnamed source was Rabin and that he was serious. In fact, it was Brigadier-General Aharon Yariv, the head of military intelligence, and the story was overwritten. Yariv mentioned 'an all-out invasion of Syria and conquest of Damascus' but only as the most extreme of a range of possibilities. But the damage had been done. Tension was so high that most people, and not just the Arabs, assumed that something much bigger than usual was being planned against Syria.

Source: Wikipedia

Oh and while it is hardly the only source I look to for information, Wikipedia is miles better than the kind of drivel you use to back up your arguments.
 
The ground offensive was launched only at Egypt who instructed UN forces to get out of Sinai and got its armoured divisions into the demiliterized sinai. On Ground, Jordan and Syria attacked Israel first. The war was actually fought only 1 front at a time, the Syrian front being the last and only because of pressure from the residents of villages around the sea of Gallile who suffered from Syrian shellings and sniper fire before and during the war, so if Israel was massing troops to invade Syria (which it had a very good justification to do so considering the Syrians harassed Israeli civilians at the north) why was the Golan taken only at the end of the war? How did Israel manage to conquer the Sinai in 2 days with its army massed along the Syrian border?
 
This is true but funny how it never ever gets in the Israeli version of events.

It might also be funny how you find any position other then the one you agree with funny.

Now me I don't buy Demon's version of events. It conveniently skips all the comments Nasser made and the massing of troops along the Israeli border and order by Nasser to have all UN peace keepers removed. It is alsointeresting to note neither Sadat in later years in frank discussions with Israelis and other admitted Nasser provoked Israel into a war. It is not exactly a secret. The comments by Nasser were blatant and clearly intended to start a war. Go read them and tell me what you can't understand from their contents.

Nasser in 1967 was preparing to invade Israel. To suggest he was not is pointless. His own speeches made that clear and he admitted it openly many times.

Nasser wanted to provoke Israel into the first move as he openly admitted after the war. He did not expect the air response. He expected a ground response.

Nasser was not a good military tactician. He was a master at whipping up crowds in a frenzy but as a military leader and tactician he was remarkably short sighted and stupid.

If you do bother to read about him you will fnd he had zero logistical supports put in place as he amassed troops particularily in the Sinai. He thought he could fight a war sending poorly trained soldiers out with food and water supply lines in the Negev a nightmare of a place to send soldiers due to the heat and open visibility.

Nasser lost the war for two reasons. One he never planned for an air war. Then when his airport was knocked out quickly and he sent his troops into the Negev they abandon their tanks as soon as they saw the Israelis coming. They had little water or food and most were frightened and had no clue what they were doing.

You can spin history all you want to try suggest Israel started a war for no reason but not even the Egyptians by that line Demon is using which is classic Hamas p.r. which comes from the Ministry of Communications in Damascus, Syria.

At least find out where your propoganda comes before you accuse some of us of being too bias for Israel.

Now see me, I had good friends and a Hebrew teacher who fought in the war for the IDF in Sinai-Negev. I also have friends who were engineersin the Egyptian army. Neither spins the war.

They both told me the Egyptian army quickly surrendered in the Negev-Sinai for lack of water and food. My friend who commanded a tank never bragged about what he did-he always made it clear the Egyptians were thirsty and hungry. He never once tried to depict himself as a brilliant warrior.

My Egyptian friend said many of them were uneducated, frightened, dehydated and never properly trained and quickly surrendered. There were some pockets of resistance but for the most party the Egyptian army quickly surrendered in Sinai.

Ironically the architects of the 67 victory, Yitzhak Rabin and Moishe Dayan went on to push for peace with Palestinians and Sadat a major leader for the Egyptians of course went on to initiate his famous peace approach to Begin.

Soldiers of the 67 war would go on to try make peace.
 
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It might also be funny how you find any position other then the one you agree with funny.

Now me I don't buy Demon's version of events. It conveniently skips all the comments Nasser made and the massing of troops along the Israeli border and order by Nasser to have all UN peace keepers removed. It is alsointeresting to note neither Sadat in later years in frank discussions with Israelis and other admitted Nasser provoked Israel into a war. It is not exactly a secret. The comments by Nasser were blatant and clearly intended to start a war. Go read them and tell me what you can't understand from their contents.

Nasser in 1967 was preparing to invade Israel. To suggest he was not is pointless. His own speeches made that clear and he admitted it openly many times.

Nasser wanted to provoke Israel into the first move as he openly admitted after the war. He did not expect the air response. He expected a ground response.

Nasser was not a good military tactician. He was a master at whipping up crowds in a frenzy but as a military leader and tactician he was remarkably short sighted and stupid.

If you do bother to read about him you will fnd he had zero logistical supports put in place as he amassed troops particularily in the Sinai. He thought he could fight a war sending poorly trained soldiers out with food and water supply lines in the Negev a nightmare of a place to send soldiers due to the heat and open visibility.

Nasser lost the war for two reasons. One he never planned for an air war. Then when his airport was knocked out quickly and he sent his troops into the Negev they abandon their tanks as soon as they saw the Israelis coming. They had little water or food and most were frightened and had no clue what they were doing.

You can spin history all you want to try suggest Israel started a war for no reason but not even the Egyptians by that line Demon is using which is classic Hamas p.r. which comes from the Ministry of Communications in Damascus, Syria.

At least find out where your propoganda comes before you accuse some of us of being too bias for Israel.

Now see me, I had good friends and a Hebrew teacher who fought in the war for the IDF in Sinai-Negev. I also have friends who were engineersin the Egyptian army. Neither spins the war.

They both told me the Egyptian army quickly surrendered in the Negev-Sinai for lack of water and food. My friend who commanded a tank never bragged about what he did-he always made it clear the Egyptians were thirsty and hungry. He never once tried to depict himself as a brilliant warrior.

My Egyptian friend said many of them were uneducated, frightened, dehydated and never properly trained and quickly surrendered. There were some pockets of resistance but for the most party the Egyptian army quickly surrendered in Sinai.

Ironically the architects of the 67 victory, Yitzhak Rabin and Moishe Dayan went on to push for peace with Palestinians and Sadat a major leader for the Egyptians of course went on to initiate his famous peace approach to Begin.

Soldiers of the 67 war would go on to try make peace.

The Egyptians, as I said, only initiated those policies after Israel had authorized military operations against Syria and people in the Israeli military leaked a claim that it would aim to unseat the government in Damascus. Around the same time Egypt got that Soviet intel about Israeli forces moving towards the Syrian border. This is after an incident the month before where Israel launched a major attack on Syria and flew planes over Damascus as a result of what Moshe Dayan himself admitted were intentional provocations along the DMZ meant to incite a Syrian military response that could then have allowed for Israeli military retaliation.
 
It is not a lie.It happens to be in all the good history books about the 6 day war. I think you should leave wikipedia behind and get some real books that discuss the war in depth.
Really Che?
Which books is it in?
Your posts are Utter empty Frauds.

You blindly accepted/cheerlead DoL's [wrong/refuted] claim which not only wasn't a 'book', but was unlinked.
I linked Wiki which sourced a BOOK, (note [21]) by Benny Morris/Ian Black, No less.
So your criticism is Bogus, as All your posts are a Waste of space; thankfully, bud sadly, Never too much space.

And when presented with this Wildly ONE-sided article:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middl...ered-occupied-territory-2.html#post1059520691
(which doesn't approach wiki's fairness or footnoting OF books)
You Cheerlead it too.
Che said:
Good article but Israeli supporters will not agree with the actual truth.
Why don't you tell Serenity to "read a book" instead of posting something that doesn't even approach Wiki's documentation or attempted evenhandedness. And of course with NO content of your own.

And when presented with History you discount it anyway.
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/48220-myth-1-israel-stolen-land-58.html#post1059506613
Che said:
And that is why many history books say A history of as opposed to the history of.

You make the shallowest cheerleading/knocking posts imaginable and do nothing but.
No substance whatsoever. Utterly Fraudulent bluster.
 
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You blindly accepted/cheerlead DoL's [wrong/refuted] claim which not only wasn't a 'book', but was unlinked.

Look back a few posts dude. You did not refute anything because I was talking about something different from what you claimed.
 
Look back a few posts dude. You did not refute anything because I was talking about something different from what you claimed.
Afraid Not.

You Claimed
DoL said:
"Egypt's act of closing the Straits of Tiran was in response to Israeli preparations for a major attack on Syria, of which some in the Israeli government said should seek the removal of the government and occupation of Damascus."
I replied
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/99973-1967-war.html#post1059520402
mbig said:
"In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[21]

So in fact, at that time there were NO "Israeli preparations for a major attack of Syria." You stand refuted even after your Fudge attempt.
 
Dude, like I said, look back a few posts. I already said that I was not talking about the Soviet intel.
Dude..
If the Soviet Intel was Wrong, then Israel was NOT preparing a "Major attack" as you Wrongly allege.
And as I showed with MY Wiki link.
It doesn't matter if you were referring to Soviet Intel or not.
The FACT of the matter was that statement was shown Wrong. No matter who made it.
Israel was NOT planning a "Major attack".
(or the Soviets/anyone else would have been right)

Dol First time said:
Egypt's act of closing the Straits of Tiran was in response to Israeli preparations for a MAJOR attack on Syria, of which some in the Israeli government said should seek the removal of the government and occupation of Damascus.
And as I showed with MY wiki link, this was Incorrect.

Now you seek to Fudge it and move on to a previous lesser issue which in no way was "Israel planning a Major attack on Syria"
DoL the Second time said:
"The toughest threat was reported by the news agency United Press International (UPI) on 12 May: 'A high Israeli source said today that Israel would take LIMITED military action designed to topple the Damascus army regime IF Syrian terrorists continue..."

Which is NOT a "Major" attack as you alleged in your first post and only "contingent on continued Syrian terrorism".
And Certainly NOT an excuse or threat or "Major attack" for Nasser to close the Straights of Tiran, as you Initially/wrongly alleged.

Busted again.

This is typical Disingenuous DoL tactics to try and cover his first Wrong statement/attempted perversion of history.

As to my sources, I'll not only match mine against yours, but let's match who even backs their statements at all with Links as a percent of posts.
Because just one of your sneaky methods, as I just proved/outed again, is to Cherry Pick Wiki and then not even post it.
(until, as now, I force your hand)
Alternatively, and in the Majority, you'd have to find a site that would agree with your Preposterous BS, and quote a Laughable source/hate/conspiracy site.. so you understandably Don't use links very often.
 
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It might also be funny how you find any position other then the one you agree with funny.

Well I happen to agree with the people who have researched the subject indepth and do not rely on Israeli propaganda like so many people on here, like your version of events.
 
Really Che?
Which books is it in?
Your posts are Utter empty Frauds.

There is really no point debating with you.First off you do not even know what me and the other poster were talking about and that can be seen from your little piece on the Soviets providing false reports.If you are going to even try and debate this subject then read up on it first off.
 
Dude, like I said, look back a few posts. I already said that I was not talking about the Soviet intel.

He does not know the history of the subject.I know what you are talking about and it is true.
 
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