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PA pushing Quartet to recognize 1967 borders

Gardener said:
Those who have been indoctrinated from the time they were born into a cult of genocidal ethnic hatred.



Because A well-oiled propaganda machine from those engaged in the cult of genocidal hatred indoctrinating delusional westerners into supporting them.




Much of the techniques they employ are of much more recent origin, as their close association with the National Socialists in WW2 taught them about effective propaganda.
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Does ir astonish anyone that Europe which has few Jews left thanks to their actions 70 years ago is now a bastion of anti-semitism.

Just wondering if they got their wish and Jews no longer existed what they would do with their hate.

Maybe some of our European site members would take a shot at who they would go after next.
 
washunut said:
Does ir astonish anyone that Europe which has few Jews left thanks to their actions 70 years ago is now a bastion of anti-semitism.

Just wondering if they got their wish and Jews no longer existed what they would do with their hate.

Maybe some of our European site members would take a shot at who they would go after next.
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I know I'm sure not surprised. Not after 15 years on the internet, anyway.
 
Gardener said:
I know I'm sure not surprised. Not after 15 years on the internet, anyway.
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I am far from a savvy internet user. Do you know of any site that has true political debates. Unlike most of the trash I see and put up with on this site.
 
washunut said:
I am far from a savvy internet user. Do you know of any site that has true political debates. Unlike most of the trash I see and put up with on this site.
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Seems to me that for any site that has any disussions at all, the word "Israel" acts as does a dripping slab of meat to a rabid pit bull.

THey come out of the woodwork every time and there are a lot of them.
 
washunut said:
What type of sick excuse for human beings would celebrate the murder of children. How on earth can people on this site justify such actions? I guess thousands of years of bigorty trump all else.
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We should always keep on mind that the Italians and the Germans were two two of the most advanced nations in history and yet they turned to Fascism and Nazism in great numbers, and the Europeans of today are certainly no more sophisticated than they were then.

We should also remember that that, as always, it is the Left who demonize, who will minimize the value of human life whether it's in the womb, or of the elderly and infirm, and they will murder on a grand scale over what they feel is a superior economic system. And of course they will always hate the Jew.

They will attempt to explain and rationalize that their hatreds of Jews is a result of 'land settlements', or whatever, but of course these hatreds extend back over many hundreds of years, long before there was any settlement controversies. The Left and radical Islam were made for each other, and it shows.
 
washunut said:
What type of sick excuse for human beings would celebrate the murder of children. How on earth can people on this site justify such actions?
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who on this site is justifying such actions?
 
Grant said:
Fatah has already taken 'credit' for the slaughter of the Fogel family and the Palestinians, on hearing the news, celebrated by dancing in the streets and handing out candy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msXNcJA76_8&feature=player_embedded
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if you are going to use actual images of murdered people then you should have placed a warning regarding this youtube link to state that. in all the other discussions there have been regarding this, no one else has seen the need to do that. if they want to they can source out the images for themselves.

personally, i don't need to see images of the murdered victims to make me feel any more disgusted at what happened to them.
 
Serenity said:
if you are going to use actual images of murdered people then you should have placed a warning regarding this youtube link to state that. in all the other discussions there have been regarding this, no one else has seen the need to do that. if they want to they can source out the images for themselves.

personally, i don't need to see images of the murdered victims to make me feel any more disgusted at what happened to them.
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There is already a viewer warning at the beginning of the video. What did you expect to see when viewing the murder of a family? It was explained what was happening prior to the link being posted.

You were 'disgusted' and so you should be, but keep in mind that when people complain about this barbarism they're often called "Islamophobic", accuse the Israelis of 'apartheid' when they try to protect themselves, and will support embargoes, etc. against the Jewish people.
 
Grant said:
There is already a viewer warning at the beginning of the video. What did you expect to see when viewing the murder of a family? It was explained what was happening prior to the link being posted.

You were 'disgusted' and so you should be, but keep in mind that when people complain about this barbarism they're often called "Islamophobic"
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excuse me? people who complain about murder are then painted as "islamophopic" only because they expressed opposition to murder
i call bull**** on that
my belief is that only those who are actually islamophobes would seek a ruse, such as portraying themselves as unjust victims, in an effort to explain away their anti-islamic ideology as something legitimate

... accuse the Israelis of 'apartheid' when they try to protect themselves,
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goebbels would be proud of that attempt at misleading propaganda. protecting oneself is one thing; engaging in [to use your term] 'apartheid' practices is quite another. being unable to distinguish between the two identifies such a poster as either a fool, or a propagandist ... or quite possibly, both

and will support embargoes, etc. against the Jewish people.
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hypocrisy alert. it appears that any embargo against the jewish people is unacceptable to you. and that is reasonable. but what is stunning is the willingness to engage in an overt double standard by condoning an israeli embargo against the Palestinian people of gaza ... hypocrisy made worse because that embargo was provoked by the democratic election of a government the state of israel opposed

such double standard could reasonably be expected to elicit the question: why is israel, by its actions, against democratic elections ... thus, against democracy? it is notable such question is not asked ... at least not in the current western media
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justabubba said:
excuse me? people who complain about murder are then painted as "islamophopic" only because they expressed opposition to murder
i call bull**** on that
my belief is that only those who are actually islamophobes would seek a ruse, such as portraying themselves as unjust victims, in an effort to explain away their anti-islamic ideology as something legitimate
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Here's the deal, Justabubba. Anyone who uses the term "Islamophobic", in any serious way, is probably too stupid to tie their own shoelaces.

goebbels would be proud of that attempt at misleading propaganda. protecting oneself is one thing; engaging in [to use your term] 'apartheid' practices is quite another. being unable to distinguish between the two identifies such a poster as either a fool, or a propagandist ... or quite possibly, both
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And anyone who brings up Goebbels and Nazis and propaganda in oder to debate a point is probably too stupid to comb their own hair.
hypocrisy alert. it appears that any embargo against the jewish people is unacceptable to you but what is stunning is the willingness to engage in an overt double standard by condoning an israeli embargo against the Palestinian people of gaza ... hypocrisy made worse because that embargo was provoked by the democratic election of a government the state of israel opposed
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If the Leftists begin a boycott against the Palestinians, who are trying their damnedest to murder innocent Israeli families, as they have against the Israelis, then you can start throwing the term "hypocrite" around. But it is the Left, just as they did in the aforementioned Goebbels political party, who still hates the Jews and who support a boycott only against the Jews.

such double standard could reasonably be expected to elicit the question: why is israel, by its actions, against democratic elections ... thus, against democracy? it is notable such question is not asked ... at least not in the current western media
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What makes you think Israelis are against democratic elections? They have them themselves and get along well other democracies. Do you also believe other countries are against democracy or only the Jewish people?

Talk about your Jewophobia!!
 
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Grant said:
There is already a viewer warning at the beginning of the video. What did you expect to see when viewing the murder of a family? It was explained what was happening prior to the link being posted..
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i expected to see proof of your claims (seeming you felt the need to mention it), that "Fatah has already taken 'credit' for the slaughter of the Fogel family and the Palestinians, on hearing the news, celebrated by dancing in the streets and handing out candy". there was no proof of that in the youtube move. instead, it was graphic images of the murdered Fogel family with music from Schindlers list playing in the background. what does the nazi genocide of Europes Jews have to do with these murders?

why did you feel the need to post the images? do you think it makes it somewhat more real or repulsive?

well it doesn't.
 
Grant said:
anyone who brings up Nazis in oder to debate a point is probably too stupid to comb their own hair.
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oh i agree.

like the maker of the graphic youtube vid you posted of the fogel family, laying dead, while the music from schindlers list was playing in the bakground.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Do I have to close a third thread due to the apparently unquenchable need to politicize the Itamar murders?

Stop this derailment. Return to the OP topic or there will be consequences.
 
Grant said:
You don't care for the music from Schindler's List, huh?
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your words.

Grant said:
anyone who brings up Nazis in oder to debate a point is probably too stupid to comb their own hair.
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Grant said:
The video showed these were real people and not symbols.
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i never said they weren't real people, that was my point. that is why i find it disgusting that their images are being used this way. have some respect for them. i don't need to see pictures of their bloodied, massacared bodies to convince me that they died at the hands of a monster.

everyone feel free to chime in here. are you ok with people posting graphic images of dead or maimed people with allegations of whom is responsible without any charges having been laid? are you ok with people talking of cheering, celebrating and dancing in the streets to celebrate the murders of these people when there is no evidence to support such claims?
 
sorry Tasha, i was typing my response and did not see your post until after i replied.
 
Got to ask yourself, if you where all alone and stranded due to a crash of some sort, where you you rather be Israel or some Arab country.
 
deltabtry said:
Got to ask yourself, if you where all alone and stranded due to a crash of some sort, where you you rather be Israel or some Arab country.
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Lebanon will be just fine for me.
 
Serenity said:
your words.
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Of course they were my words. Why did you mention the music from Schindler's list?

i never said they weren't real people, that was my point.
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Nor did I claim you did.

that is why i find it disgusting that their images are being used this way.
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They must be used this way in order to remind those who would ignore terrorism is that these are real people here, people with whom we could be friends, who we can certainly identify with if we have families of our own.

have some respect for them.[/QUOTE ]

I have a great deal of respect for them.
i don't need to see pictures of their bloodied, massacared bodies to convince me that they died at the hands of a monster.
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Some people do, those who hate Jews, and it is designed for them.

everyone feel free to chime in here. are you ok with people posting graphic images of dead or maimed people with allegations of whom is responsible without any charges having been laid?
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A Palestinian group actually claimed responsibility. They confessed. And it is not a matter of 'charges being laid' before we find anyone guilty, it is finding someone guilty after a fair trial has been held. But Fatah initially confessed and then later withdrew their confession.

are you ok with people talking of cheering, celebrating and dancing in the streets to celebrate the murders of these people when there is no evidence to support such claims?
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What sort of evidence do you require? Newspaper reports are not sufficient? Have there been denials in this area also?
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Mira said:
Lebanon will be just fine for me.
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I remember Beirut being the jewel of the Mediterranean and now look at it, it's inhabitants did a fine job keeping that country prosperous....such a trajedy and for what?...Islam
 
Moderator's Warning:
I'm at a loss here. I plainly told everyone in Post #64 to return to the OP or risk consequences. The penalties in this forum are attenuated. Why this insistence on doing things the difficult way? One final call... return to the OP.
 
alexa said:
Basically you are saying that 8 out of ten people do not want peace because they can see no peace ...and as for you attempt to justify the settlements...chicken and egg. What came first, settlements of rockets? Have you ever for even ten minutes thought about putting yourself in the others shoes.
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First of all I never said 8 out of 10 do not want peace, even your source said 10 out 10 want peace. 8 out of 10 believe Palestinians don't want peace and do not trust them - this is what I said. As for your logic with chicken and egg, lets put aside that you justify terrorizing civilian population and targeting civilians just because of settlments, there are no settlements in Gaza yet the rocket fire never halted, infact it only increased after the disengegment - what lead to the blockade.



Repaid? repaid? You don't think maybe you owed them something? Well you will be pleased to know that the Palestinians are working towards getting th[e Oslo ripped up. The have also had a day or rage urging their leaders to stop being in the huff with each other. This was held in both Gaza and the West bank. Hamas roughed up it's protesters but they moved somewhere else and carried on ....and I believe there are talks on meeting and trying to sort things out. You never know what tomorrow might bring ;)
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I think that when Israel shows it is interestead in solving the dispute peacefully the Palestinians owe Israelies to stop using violence and terror, yes, I believe that 100%, do you disagree? Do you think Palestinians were just to bomb busses only few months after Israel signs a treaty with their leaders to give them autonomy? Do you think Arafat had legitimacy to start the 2nd intifada? Yes Alexa, when Israel shows it is serious about finding a peacefull solution the Palestinians owe us to stop terrorizing us.

That was one horrible crime. One. I believe it resulted in several attacks on Palestinian homes. Not only that 400 more homes are to be built as a collective punishment for the Palestinians.
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Again you try to justify terror, why not saying "that was one horrible crime" period?
As for building houses, I agree its stupied, the number of checkpoints should have been increased again in the region as it is clear that when we try to make things easier for the Palestinians we get punished.

You have to have the possibility of a state. All you settlements make such a thing impossible. I am beginning to wonder if the continued talks is just so people will not start looking at the reality of the situation on the ground. It is though getting more and more talked about.
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Did you ever look at the maps offered by Olmert and the Palestinian negotiation team? They tell a different story

Why on earth should that happen. Just give the Palestinians citizenship, give them equal rights, equal opportunity to good employment, housing and schooling and I am quite sure they will get along just fine. Plenty of countries are able to get on with people who do not come from their genetic pool - oh but wait a minute you do, it is just the Palestinians stayed. ;)
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I'm afraid you do not understand the consept of nationality and perhaps you are not to strong in history where almost everycase of bi-national or multi-national state resulted a civil war between the nations


Yes, I heard the Hebron tape, I know all Palestinians are terrorists and all Israelis saints.:doh
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What does this have to do with this:
"You also derived checkpoints from settlements, checkpoints, just like the wall, are driven from terror, nothing else, if there was no terror there were no checkpoints, now you may suggest that terror derives from settlements but if you do and you suggest that checkpoints are driven from settlments this will ultimatly mean that you believe using terrorisem against the settlers is just wouldn't it?"
 
ido_ said:
First of all I never said 8 out of 10 do not want peace, even your source said 10 out 10 want peace. 8 out of 10 believe Palestinians don't want peace and do not trust them - this is what I said. As for your logic with chicken and egg, lets put aside that you justify terrorizing civilian population and targeting civilians just because of settlments, there are no settlements in Gaza yet the rocket fire never halted, infact it only increased after the disengegment - what lead to the blockade.
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I think what happens, ido, is that most people are in the business of replicating talking points instead of thinking, and the talking points were crafted by terrorists to appeal to westerner's various inclinations in such a way that people actually think they are engaged in some righteous cause when they advance the terrorist's rationalizations in regards to this moral equivalency between actions that are not morally equivalent. They think they are somehow being fair when they equate the intentional murder of children with the building of a house or mass terrorism with the actions taken to prevent it, but all they show by such is that they do not engage in any sort of moral reasoning.

It should be obvious to any thinking person that since the Arab terrorism against Jews began before there was an Israel, and before there were people who identified themselves as Palestinians, then the causes for such must be something OTHER than all the myriad excuses they offer by way of justification. Unless we have entered some sort of Star Trek - like time warp, time has a habit of only moving in one direction. How people can babble away with their nonsense that the cause occurs after the effect rather than before is beyond me, but most people do not really think. All they do is repeat, and in the case of the conflict in question, what they repeat are too often nothing more than memes crafted quite cynically in order to manipulate them into thinking hatred is a virtue, and the destruction of one people's right to self determination is necessary to promote the rights of those who wish to destroy them.
 
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Ok this went off by accident. I have a bug. When I feel better I will come back to deal with this but for the time being from what I have seen, Ido what you say I said bares almost no relationship to what I said.
 
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Gardener said:
I think what happens, ido, is that most people are in the business of replicating talking points instead of thinking, and the talking points were crafted by terrorists to appeal to westerner's various inclinations in such a way that people actually think they are engaged in some righteous cause when they advance the terrorist's rationalizations in regards to this moral equivalency between actions that are not morally equivalent. They think they are somehow being fair when they equate the intentional murder of children with the building of a house or mass terrorism with the actions taken to prevent it, but all they show by such is that they do not engage in any sort of moral reasoning.

It should be obvious to any thinking person that since the Arab terrorism against Jews began before there was an Israel, and before there were people who identified themselves as Palestinians, then the causes for such must be something OTHER than all the myriad excuses they offer by way of justification. Unless we have entered some sort of Star Trek - like time warp, time has a habit of only moving in one direction. How people can babble away with their nonsense that the cause occurs after the effect rather than before is beyond me, but most people do not really think. All they do is repeat, and in the case of the conflict in question, what they repeat are too often nothing more than memes crafted quite cynically in order to manipulate them into thinking hatred is a virtue, and the destruction of one people's right to self determination is necessary to promote the rights of those who wish to destroy them.
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I think what you state above refuses to address the much darker point that is reflected on this site. I also think you know that. There are a core of people that do not want to discuss the merits of any of the threads posed on this site, but use it as an excuse to spew their anti-israel, anti-semitic hatred.

Not sure why I even look at this part of the forum as those people do a good job of raising my blood pressure, but are a joke in my view as it relates to a debating partner.
 
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