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Wanted: A Muslim, Reformation.

mbig

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OMG !! lolololololol you went into all that trouble looking for web sites. We're all aware of all of that if we follow the news. I'm talking about your incessant repetition of Dar el-Islam and Dar el Harb that don't even figure in the Qoran and the Hadith, as if Muslims have a secret plot to Islamise the earth.

Are you aware that we are in the 21st century and if there is a freak minority of radical Islam that prefer to go back to the midle ages, the VERY large majority of Muslims in the world won't even know WTF you're talking about ?

Those are the sources that I'm asking for....

My Pleasure..
ergo.. your EMPTY DENIAL must follow.

The Issue IS not what percent of Muslims are the Strawman "terrorists", but what percent are Fundamentalists/LITERALISTS... and give rise to the Intolerant Governments/countries that ARTE Islam.

People make funh of the Intolerant prouncements of a few Lieteralist/fundamentalist Christians... but don't realize the amjority of Muslims are Koranic Literalists (While 90% of Christians and Jews are Secular.
The near reverse is true of Islam.

Manji:
".....The trouble with Islam today is that Literalism is Mainstream.
Even Moderate Muslims take the Koran as the final word of God: unfiltered, unchanged and Unchangeable.
This Supremacy complex inhibits us from asking hard questions about what happens when faith becomes dogma.
Such a path can lead only to a dead end of more Violence...."


The Australian: Irshad Manji: Denial is scourge of Islam [August 23, 2005]

and so much more..
-
 
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What.The.****.

:confused:
 
Part 2.

Mira said:
OMG !! lolololololol you went into all that trouble looking for web sites. We're all aware of all of that if we follow the news. I'm talking about your incessant repetition of Dar el-Islam and Dar el Harb that don't even figure in the Qoran and the Hadith, as if Muslims have a secret plot to Islamise the earth.

Are you aware that we are in the 21st century and if there is a freak minority of radical Islam that prefer to go back to the midle ages, the VERY large majority of Muslims in the world won't even know WTF you're talking about ?

Those are the sources that I'm asking for...."

Part 2.
you can try and dis this Link in lieu of coherent reply as well.
As Laila has utterly Trolled one up.


Wanted: a Muslim Reformation
National Post (Canada)

Sept 26, 2003

No religion has a monopoly on violence. Christianity has the Spanish Inquisition and the bloody excesses of the Crusades...."

But it will Not do to take the Politically Correct course and Lump all Religions in the Same basket, at least not insofar as our own era is concerned.
Christian civilization underwent a Reformation in the 16th century, embraced the Enlightenment with its intellectual and theological pluralism, separated Church from State and encouraged scholarship and democracy. Judaism has followed a similar process -- as have, more recently, the faiths of the far East. Islam, on the other hand, is still struggling with this transition. And if there is to be peace in the Middle East and an end to terror worldwide, Muslims must accept that their faith is overdue for a doctrinal overhaul...."


"....Christianity still has its fanatical, bigoted elements. But those Christians who advocate the slaughter of non-believers make up an almost imperceptibly tiny fraction of the faithful. Much is made of the intolerant pronouncements of high-profile evangelists. A few deranged anti-abortion snipers aside, however, this is just talk. Even terrorists that claim to be part of the Christian world-- such as Spain's Basque extremists and America's Timothy McVeigh-- typically do not operate under any sort of religious aegis.

By contrast, a Large minority of the world's one billion Muslims still adhere to militant interpretations of their faith, including the Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam, centred in and spread by Saudi Arabia.
These interpretations all embrace as a central tenet the duty of jihad -- which, despite whitewashing efforts in the West, continues to mean what it has meant since the 7th century: the slaughter or forced conversion of non-Muslim "infidels." With few exceptions -- such as old-school Palestinian terrorists who cling to Marxist rhetoric -- Muslim terrorist groups all explicitly take Islam as their inspiration. Osama bin Laden is a Hero to Hundreds of Millions of Muslims, and al-Qaeda continues to receive financing from a wide array of Muslim charities.
Christians kill. Jews kill. Hindus kill. But no other faith group on the planet has embraced random slaughter in anything approaching the manner of radicalized Muslims.

The mainstream Arabic media is shot through with the most extreme sort of Hatred...
"Muslim advocacy organizations in the West, including Canada's own Canadian Islamic Congress, typically reject the claim that there is a problem with contemporary Islam, preferring to lay the world's problems at the feet of Israel and U.S. foreign policy.

Indeed, any Critical Scrutiny of their Religion is decried as "Bigotry"
..... But it is evident these commentators are putting pride of faith above Truth.
The celebrations in the Islamic world on Sept. 11, 2001...."

Original link expired, The full article can now be found here:

http://www.jewishtoronto.com/content_display.html?ArticleID=85448
 
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Make sense and maybe you will get a decent response.

English would help along with a question.
 
Laila.
YOU ARE TROLLING/DISRUPTING this string with Incoherent/Sabotaging Replies.

My First post contains a quote AND a reply to it. And a Theme.

Because your first language is perhaps Not English (and you don't like the topic).. you try and make a mockery of the string.

Reply ON topic get the hell out/stop sabotaging this string.

-

EDIT: LAILA'S ABOVE AND BELOW CHILDISH/GOOFY/OFF TOPIC ATTEMPTS TO SABOTAGE/RUIN THIS STRING HAVE BEEN REPORTED.
All of her posts are OFF topic.
BEST SOLUTION WOULD BE DELETION OF ALL OF HER TRASH AND THIS POST HAVING TO POINT IT OUT.
-
 
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Laila.
YOU ARE TROLLING/DISRUPTING this string with Incoherenmt Replies.

My First post cointains a a quote AND a reply to it.

Because your first language is perhgaps Not English (and you don't like the topic).. uyou bperhaps try and make a mockery of the string.

Reply ON topic get the hell out/stop sabotaging this string.

'
-
-

Look at your spelling before preaching to me about speaking English :rofl

But nvm, we shall let the thread sink.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Let's either stay on topic or not respond, shall we?
 
Now let's see Mr. mbig aka Turbeaux or his best friend.

You do know of course that there is a conflict between the Muslims and the Jews right ?

So if I posted information from an Islamic web site I would look very credible to you, correct ?

Have you ever tried neutral sources for a change ?

And besides that, let's consider for a second that the majority of Muslims follow the Koran, what proof can you find me that says that the majority of Muslims in this world are out there to eliminate every single "Kafir" or "Kafer" as pronounced in Arabic ?

If that's the case, the conquest of Israel looks quite violent also and the majority of the Jewsih people support the sate of Israel. Am I stupid enough to believe that the majority of the Jewish people apply the text below ?

------
God told Moses:

But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, but you shall utterly destroy them—the Hittite, Amorite, Canaanite, Perizzite, Hivite, and Jebusite—just as the Lord your God has commanded you, lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against the Lord your God.

So Joshua [Moses' successor] conquered all the land: the mountain country and the South and the lowland and the wilderness slopes, and all their kings; he left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the Lord, God of Israel had commanded.

------

So what's your point again, let's be clear.
 
I am a bit confused. Is the argument here, that a majority of Muslims wish to either convert or kill all infidels?
 
I am a bit confused. Is the argument here, that a majority of Muslims wish to either convert or kill all infidels?

Yes, precisely, the argument of mbig and especially his altar ego Turbeaux, is that every Muslim's '"without exception" according to Turbeaux) aim is to convert or kill anyone who is from another religion.

mbig is the mild or light version of Turbeaux, he believes that only the large majority of Muslims are evil.

:doh
 
Yes, precisely, the argument of mbig and especially his altar ego Turbeaux, is that every Muslim's '"without exception" according to Turbeaux) aim is to convert or kill anyone who is from another religion.

mbig is the mild or light version of Turbeaux, he believes that only the large majority of Muslims are evil.

:doh

That is utter nonsense isn't it?;)
 
Now let's see Mr. mbig aka Turbeaux or his best friend.
Yet another False Charge LIE by Mira.. in lieu of/Obfuscating coherent debate


You do know of course that there is a conflict between the Muslims and the Jews right ?


So if I posted information from an Islamic web site I would look very credible to you, correct ?

Have you ever tried neutral sources for a change ?
Is there a conflict between Muslims and Jews?
Is reference to this and why in the OT or in the Koran?
Pray.. tell the board.
LOL

"MY sources."

1. Irshad Manji... a Practising MUSLIM reformer pointing out the Majority of Muslims ARE Literalists.

Any answer? YES, NO.. or just more BS as I said you would respond with above?

2. National Post (Canada) whose link now expired so is preserved, Not written, on 'JewishToronto'.

What is your rebuttal? Your source?
YOU are Trolling and just AS I said had to 'Dis" the sources rather than debate the topic.

And besides that, let's consider for a second that the majority of Muslims follow the Koran, what proof can you find me that says that the majority of Muslims in this world are out there to eliminate every single "Kafir" or "Kafer" as pronounced in Arabic ?
Where did I say that?

If that's the case, the conquest of Israel looks quite violent also and the majority of the Jewsih people support the sate of Israel. Am I stupid enough to believe that the majority of the Jewish people apply the text below ?
------
God told Moses:....
That's just MY point.
But to elaborate...

The Vast majority, perhaps 90%, of Jews and Christians are SECULAR, while the near reverse is true in Islam.

So what it's in the OT (or NT) is fairly academic.. especially in regard their enemies.. now Non-existant (Moabites, Amorites, etc).. Unlike the Koran's enemies (Jews, Christians, Pagans/aka Hindus for one) who are still the objects of scorn.
-
 
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tlMorgue said:
I am a bit confused. Is the argument here, that a majority of Muslims wish to either convert or kill all infidels?
No.
The argument here is a that a far greater number Muslims are Literalists/Fundmantalist/Radical than Christians or Jews.... and their countries and people Less tolerant of ther Minorities and Neighbors.
"Terrorism" merely being the ugliest tip of the spear and a strawman.

Yes, precisely, the argument of mbig and especially his altar ego Turbeaux, is that every Muslim's '"without exception" according to Turbeaux) aim is to convert or kill anyone who is from another religion.

mbig is the mild or light version of Turbeaux, he believes that only the large majority of Muslims are evil.

:doh

Again the [repeated] Lie rather than coherent debate. From a 'Christian' Maronite expatriot/Refugee from Lebanon No less!
Living proof of MY point.
LOL


tlmorg said:
That is utter nonsense isn't it?
Mira said:
It's called trolling
No. The above two posts ARE trolling/WHORING from two posters who cannot stay on topic and just back-slap each other's Crap.
-
 
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You know what mbig, perhaps if you wouldn't have attacked me with insults from day one on Political Forum and then followed me to Debate Politics to continue to attack and if you hadn't sent me extremely insulting PM-s when all I told you was to chill out, we might have been able to have a discussion.

The other reason why I prefer not to discuss with you is because you presented me with that whore, Gabriel, as the speaker of the ultimate truth.

It is true that as far as Muslim countries , I have only lived for a year in Dubai, travelled often to Syria, Egypt, Algeria and only once to Lybia, but Lebanon ???? for heaven's sake, I was born there and left only when I was 25. So if you believe Gabriel's ENORMOUS lies, how on earth will I ever be able to discuss with you again ?

One huge difference between you and me is that you mostly if not fully depend on the Internet to learn about politics, which is not my case.

Some of what you post hapens to be true, but you cannot and never will have a civil discussion with anyone with the attitude that you have always had. Unless you are not interested in having a civil discussion, but only to make statements.

have a good evening sir

edit to add: you are back on my ignore list, if you're interested in my opinion, please read my posts on other threads. thank you
 
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These threads are really peculiar.

As for the topic - I think obsession never leads to truth. Not for Muslims and not for those who hate them.
 
Mira, do you think Islam needs a reformation?
 
No. The above two posts ARE trolling/WHORING from two posters who cannot stay on topic and just back-slap each other's Crap.
-

I can see from you need for personal attacks that you lack much class and therefor must be a youth, or at least I should hope that an older and wiser person would not set to such low rhetoric. As such you make terrible mistakes in your arguments by making sweeping accusations against an entire religion. Please show me the statistics proving that a majority of Muslims are fundamentalist. Without such evidence your assertions are nothing more than that assertions, baseless and pointless.
 
Actually.. and as I said/Quoted it was YOU and Mira engaged in personal attack/Trolling.
With no substance whatsoever third party gossiping.

Virtually all the posts save mine.. have been 'Personal' and OFF topic.
That includes YOU and Mira's exchange/high-fiving I previously noted.

And you also could NOT answer my reply to you in post #15, correcting your misimpression.
One you Obviously cannot debate.. going for yet MORE Personal attack!


The hypocisy of YOU now saying others are engaging in what YOU yourself were doing is quite remarkable.

and I must say I am VERY disappointed/Outraged the mods have allowed this string to be consistently derailed/sabotaged by Childish Crap.

Virtually None of the posts but mine are on topic.
-
 
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Continuing with my Unrefuted "sources" and Premise, including Muslim Reformer Irshad Manji, that were UNsucessfully and Laughably challenged by Mira (as always) in lieu of debate...


The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, Mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.
by TAWFIK HAMID

April 3, 2007
Wall Street Journal

[..............]

But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world.

Women are Stoned to Death and undergo clitorectomies.
Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam.
Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq.
Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom.
One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself.
But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence.

Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.

The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.

Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.

The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam.
Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem.
During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners. It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to morally support America's enemies.

Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system.
They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.

Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be considered "moderates."

All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of suppressing their voices.

Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue to face us.

Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.



Featured Article - WSJ.com



That's 2 of 3 sources MUSLIM reformers. The other National Post/Canada.
-
 
Last edited:
Continuing with my Unrefuted "sources" and Premise, including Muslim Reformer Irshad Manji, that were UNsucessfully and Laughably challenged by Mira (as always) in lieu of debate...


The Trouble With Islam
Sadly, Mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.
by TAWFIK HAMID

April 3, 2007
Wall Street Journal

[..............]

But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world.

Women are Stoned to Death and undergo clitorectomies.
Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam.
Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq.
Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom.
One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense.

These "progressives" frequently cite the need to examine "root causes." In this they are correct: Terrorism is only the manifestation of a disease and not the disease itself.
But the root-causes are quite different from what they think. As a former member of Jemaah Islamiya, a group led by al Qaeda's second in command, Ayman al-Zawahiri, I know firsthand that the inhumane teaching in Islamist ideology can transform a young, benevolent mind into that of a terrorist. Without confronting the ideological roots of radical Islam it will be impossible to combat it. While there are many ideological "rootlets" of Islamism, the main tap root has a name--Salafism, or Salafi Islam, a violent, ultra-conservative version of the religion.

It is vital to grasp that traditional and even mainstream Islamic teaching accepts and promotes violence.

Shariah, for example, allows apostates to be killed, permits beating women to discipline them, seeks to subjugate non-Muslims to Islam as dhimmis and justifies declaring war to do so. It exhorts good Muslims to exterminate the Jews before the "end of days." The near deafening silence of the Muslim majority against these barbaric practices is evidence enough that there is something fundamentally wrong.

The grave predicament we face in the Islamic world is the virtual lack of approved, theologically rigorous interpretations of Islam that clearly challenge the abusive aspects of Shariah. Unlike Salafism, more liberal branches of Islam, such as Sufism, typically do not provide the essential theological base to nullify the cruel proclamations of their Salafist counterparts. And so, for more than 20 years I have been developing and working to establish a theologically-rigorous Islam that teaches peace.

Yet it is ironic and discouraging that many non-Muslim, Western intellectuals--who unceasingly claim to support human rights--have become obstacles to reforming Islam. Political correctness among Westerners obstructs unambiguous criticism of Shariah's inhumanity. They find socioeconomic or political excuses for Islamist terrorism such as poverty, colonialism, discrimination or the existence of Israel. What incentive is there for Muslims to demand reform when Western "progressives" pave the way for Islamist barbarity? Indeed, if the problem is not one of religious beliefs, it leaves one to wonder why Christians who live among Muslims under identical circumstances refrain from contributing to wide-scale, systematic campaigns of terror.

Politicians and scholars in the West have taken up the chant that Islamic extremism is caused by the Arab-Israeli conflict. This analysis cannot convince any rational person that the Islamist murder of over 150,000 innocent people in Algeria--which happened in the last few decades--or their slaying of hundreds of Buddhists in Thailand, or the brutal violence between Sunni and Shia in Iraq could have anything to do with the Arab-Israeli conflict.

Western feminists duly fight in their home countries for equal pay and opportunity, but seemingly ignore, under a façade of cultural relativism, that large numbers of women in the Islamic world live under threat of beating, execution and genital mutilation, or cannot vote, drive cars and dress as they please.

The tendency of many Westerners to restrict themselves to self-criticism further obstructs reformation in Islam.
Americans demonstrate against the war in Iraq, yet decline to demonstrate against the terrorists who kidnap innocent people and behead them. Similarly, after the Madrid train bombings, millions of Spanish citizens demonstrated against their separatist organization, ETA. But once the demonstrators realized that Muslims were behind the terror attacks they suspended the demonstrations. This example sent a message to radical Islamists to continue their violent methods.

Western appeasement of their Muslim communities has exacerbated the problem.
During the four-month period after the publication of the Muhammad cartoons in a Danish magazine, there were comparatively few violent demonstrations by Muslims. Within a few days of the Danish magazine's formal apology, riots erupted throughout the world. The apology had been perceived by Islamists as weakness and concession.

Worst of all, perhaps, is the anti-Americanism among many Westerners. It is a resentment so strong, so deep-seated, so rooted in personal identity, that it has led many, consciously or unconsciously, to morally support America's enemies.

Progressives need to realize that radical Islam is based on an antiliberal system.
They need to awaken to the inhumane policies and practices of Islamists around the world. They need to realize that Islamism spells the death of liberal values. And they must not take for granted the respect for human rights and dignity that we experience in America, and indeed, the West, today.

Well-meaning interfaith dialogues with Muslims have largely been fruitless. Participants must demand--but so far haven't--that Muslim organizations and scholars specifically and unambiguously denounce violent Salafi components in their mosques and in the media. Muslims who do not vocally oppose brutal Shariah decrees should not be considered "moderates."

All of this makes the efforts of Muslim reformers more difficult. When Westerners make politically-correct excuses for Islamism, it actually endangers the lives of reformers and in many cases has the effect of suppressing their voices.

Tolerance does not mean toleration of atrocities under the umbrella of relativism. It is time for all of us in the free world to face the reality of Salafi Islam or the reality of radical Islam will continue to face us.

Dr. Hamid, a onetime member of Jemaah Islamiya, an Islamist terrorist group, is a medical doctor and Muslim reformer living in the West.



Featured Article - WSJ.com



That's 2 of 3 sources MUSLIM reformers. The other National Post/Canada.
-

Ignoring your tantrum from the previous post, lets look at what you have presented. In everything you posted here, nowhere does it say a majority of Islam. Radical Islam is named many times, and there is warning that the fundamentalist branches of Islam, like Salafism are beginning to grow faster than the liberal Sufism. Granted, if such the case proceeds, then a majority of Islam will indeed be radical, fundamentalist, and terrorist. At this juncture, this is not the case. That is my quarrel with you here. I am not saying that your premise is incorrect, but that the supposition that the majority is now radical, is simply not yet true.
 
Ignoring your tantrum from the previous post, lets look at what you have presented. In everything you posted here, nowhere does it say a majority of Islam. Radical Islam is named many times, and there is warning that the fundamentalist branches of Islam, like Salafism are beginning to grow faster than the liberal Sufism. Granted, if such the case proceeds, then a majority of Islam will indeed be radical, fundamentalist, and terrorist. At this juncture, this is not the case. That is my quarrel with you here. I am not saying that your premise is incorrect, but that the supposition that the majority is now radical, is simply not yet true.

An article which could lead to a very intersting discussion by observing the rise of radical Islam during the last few decades and also why radical Islam is still on the rise.
 
Ignoring your tantrum from the previous post, lets look at what you have presented. In everything you posted here, nowhere does it say a majority of Islam.
Ignoring all Your personal insults, hypocrisy, and OFF topic posts.. you're Wrong.

The Second Link says "a Large Minority" adhere to Militant interpretations, not Majority.


The OP/Manji and Third Link say.. it doesn't matter, the Problem IS MAINSTREAM Islam.

".....The trouble with Islam today is that Literalism is Mainstream.
Even Moderate Muslims take the Koran as the final word of God: unfiltered, unchanged and Unchangeable
....


Hamid/Link 3 [also] says "Mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence."


....That is my quarrel with you here. I am not saying that your premise is incorrect, but that the supposition that the majority is now radical, is simply not yet true.
Actually you, with Mira's help, MOCKED my premise you now no longer claim is Incorrect.
Ahh.. proof/MY facts.

'Radical is more subjective.. "Literalist" is what I stick with and have used Many times.

Of course, to be fair in usage and NOT emptily PC, when we say "Literalist" Christian we also mean "Fundamentalist" Christian... and Radical too if less than 100%.

Again, My UNREBUTTED multiply stated/reiterated Premises are that Muslims are a far higher percentage literalist.. have inordinate propblems with violence and intolerance because of it.
And This/Radicalism doesn't have 'YET' to happen.. it is already a Fact on the ground from Algeria, to Sudan, to Armenia, Somlia, Nigeria, to Iraq, Iran, I/P, to Lebanon, to Pak/India/Kashmir, to Southeast Asia; Thailand, Indonesia, Philippines. etc etc, etc,

Thus 2 of 3 links say 'Mainstream' is a problem... already.
-
 
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