Agent Ferris

Hezbollah Manifesto:


We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve. This enemy is the greatest danger to our future generations and to the destiny of our lands, particularly as it glorifies the ideas of settlement and expansion, initiated in Palestine, and yearning outward to the extension of the Great Israel, from the Euphrates to the Nile.

Our primary assumption in our fight against Israel states that the Zionist entity is aggressive from its inception, and built on lands wrested from their owners, at the expense of the rights of the Muslim people. Therefore our struggle will end only when this entity is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no cease fire, and no peace agreements, whether separate or consolidated.

We vigorously condemn all plans for negotiation with Israel, and regard all negotiators as enemies, for the reason that such negotiation is nothing but the recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist occupation of Palestine. Therefore we oppose and reject the Camp David Agreements, the proposals of King Fahd, the Fez and Reagan plan, Brezhnev's and the French-Egyptian proposals, and all other programs that include the recognition (even the implied recognition) of the Zionist entity.

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No. No. That wasn't funny. You see, I'm not making myself very clear. Funny is like this: Not funny is like this And right now, I'm not like this I'm like this

So, earthlings! Um... basically, end of the world.

Agent Ferris

That will change the moment Hezbollah takes control, they seak to end pluralist democratic governance and replace it with a theocratic system of governance under puritanical sharia law. They demand one man, one vote, but only once.

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No. No. That wasn't funny. You see, I'm not making myself very clear. Funny is like this: Not funny is like this And right now, I'm not like this I'm like this

So, earthlings! Um... basically, end of the world.

American

A partisan baiter couldn't resist bringing Bush into an Obama problem.

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"Laws are made for men of ordinary understanding and should, therefore, be construed by the ordinary rules of common sense. Their meaning is not to be sought for in metaphysical subtleties which may make anything mean everything or nothing at pleasure." -- Thomas Jefferson יהוה

Mira

Unfortunately this is the view of Israel's right-wing extremists toward the Palestinians and the peace talks as well. They went as far as assassinating Yitzhak Rabin.

gree0232

Seriously? You think we should be chastizing Lebanon for arresting 'spies' rather than training their police force to conduct extra judicial killings? Seriously?

Or is the problem that they are likely to be treated poorly for the magnitude of their crime? Conspiring with a hated, enemy Nation to undermine you own Nation's Security?

Clearly, the Lebonese are just biased to have such strongly negative feelings toward Israel. Proof of the enduring hostility that Israel will forever be burdened with?

Not so fast. If there is any Nation on Earth that has a reason to be rather upset with Israel, it would be Lebanon.

Let's take a brief stroll down the old regional memory lane. It wasn't too long ago that Israel, in the aftermath of the glorious raid on Osiriak, decided to expand its military adventurism by invading Lebanon and rather effectively, but savagely, introduced themselves into a multi-sided civil war. During this period, the Israeli Supreme Court officially banned torture, and it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to know 'who' they were torturing. Israeli support for Christian malitias, whose conduct would have made Mullah Omar blush, undermined Israel's position and it withdrew ... but retained a portion of Lebanon for security purposes, continued to launch cross border raids, and to apply violence in an attempt to thwart Hezboallah. All this lead to a bombing campaign that, of course, only dropped bombs on Hezboallah (who happened to be using much of the same economic infastruture as the rest of Lebanon.)

There is also that Palestinian diaspora and rotting refugee camps that allowed an Al Qaeda affiliate to get his hooks in and force the Lebanese Army to clear out at the cost of several hundred lives. Yet, the right of return is a non-starter, and mentioning it in the context of negotiations is 'extreme'? Dealing with this diaspora is a subject best dealt with by a pair of blinders?

Also worth mentioning, when Syria attempted to use violence to influence Lebanon, it was tossed out quite soundly on its tush. Many Lebanese were rather incensed by Syria's behavior. There are of course, absolutely no parallels to Israel's conduct in Lebanon.

So, as you can see, Lebanon has good reason to be both a little wary of and angry at Israel.

Or, I suppose the Lebanese could just be biased?

O,r perhaps Israel's continual denegration of anything Arab might be quite a different bias problem all of its own?

Hezboallah seems to have become rather responsible of late, avoiding as it did the Gaza fiasco, and decades of Israeli pressure are no doubt the answer? Nope.

Hezboallah, a Shia organization in a country that was largely controlled by Christian-Sunni forces, might have had at its heart political inclusiveness and a voice in the saying of the government that controlled the Shia people of Lebanon. Once granted, they suddenly find that militant rhetoric is no salve to irresponsible government (particularly in a democracy).

Lebanon, imperfect as it may be, is nevertheless a functional democracy that blends multiple ethnicities and religions and covers the spectrum of partying night clubbers to the ultra-orthodox religious, and it is moving forward together.

Now, contrast that to Gaza and the West Bank. Yeah, no issues there. Much better to chastize Lebanon for not conducting extra-judicial killings than to deal with Israel's own extremist and ethnic problems.

Bear in mind, I have interacted with many Arabs and Jews, and if there is one powerful difference between the Nations, it is that the Arabs know they have problems and are trying to fix them. Israel seems content to ignore its own problems while pointing out everyone else's.

Sorta makes it hard to fix the problems facing Israel doesn't it?

Tashah

Yes yes. Israel is the boogeyman gree. We all get that.

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gree0232

Sure. I am sure that the Sunnis and Christians will simply roll over when the Shia block them forever from power. I am sure that Arab Sunni Nations who surround Lebanon will not start doing with the Christians and Sunnis what Iran did with the disenfranchized Shia?

Honestly, do you know anything about Arabs?

gree0232

Wow, all of Israel's problems are solved.

All we had to do was convince Lebanon to conduct extra-judicial killings! So simple, how silly of me to miss that

So, nothing in the region is Israel's fault, it has been completely passive and Israel bears no responsibility for the situation, and as the most powerful force in the region it cannot shape policy in the slightest. We should just give up, as everything is the Arabs fault and they have too many problems and they don't want to fix them.

So effectively, what you are saying is that the Israel cannot be the boogyman because Arabs are the real boogyman?

Basically you still don't want to acknowledge much less fix Israel's problems. No worries, I am sure they will all clear up shortly, the King of Jordan doesn't know anything about Arabs or the region, so I would just ignore his warnings too.

Write me when you are called up to fight in the next Intifada.

In the meantime, this is a debate forum, you could try debating? Rather than just getting into fights with anyone who dares to point out anything that Israel might be doing wrong.

What was it you said about needing to happen in order to effect needed change? Hmmm ....

Mira

Ooooh yes we're angry at Israel. What excuse is there to have sprayed South Lebanon with cluster bombs in 2006 ? Hundrends of thousands of them remain burried in the ground unexploded. It will take about 20 years to get rid of them and until today people are getting killed or maimed, including many children who mistake them for toys.

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"True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance." -- Akhenaton
PLEASE THINK OF DONATING TO HAITI !!!!!

Agent Ferris

They already rolled over during the defacto Hezbollah coup de'ta. They won't really have much choice considering that the only militia that didn't disarm in abidance of UNSC resolution 1559 is Hezbollah. It is quite clear that the Lebanese security and military forces are incapable of stopping Hezbollah. But hay you might be right and a Hezbollah win may reignite the civil war but that's not exactly what I would call a good outcome.

The fact of the matter is that Hezbollah is an Islamist organization that demands one man, one vote, but only once and upon taking control will destroy Lebanese democracy the same way Hamas destroyed Palestinian democracy.

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No. No. That wasn't funny. You see, I'm not making myself very clear. Funny is like this: Not funny is like this And right now, I'm not like this I'm like this

So, earthlings! Um... basically, end of the world.