Myth #1... Israel is "Stolen Land"

Jenin said:

How Palestinian Property Was Seized

Author:
Henry Siegman, Former Senior Fellow and Director for the U.S./Middle East Project, Council on Foreign Relations

January 27, 2005
International Herald Tribune

According to reports in the Israeli media, a ministerial committee of the Israeli government met last July 8 and adopted a resolution -- neither publicly announced nor published in the official government gazette, but "legal" nonetheless -- to confiscate thousands of dunams of land (by some estimates, nearly half the land in East Jerusalem) from its Arab owners.

The state of Israel has become the official owner of these vast holdings, without its real owners being able to appeal the decision or entitled to so much as one shekel in compensation.

The government of Israel committed this injustice by applying to Jerusalem the Absentee Property Law that was enacted by Israel in 1950 to enable it to confiscate the property of Palestinians who had fled or were expelled from the new state in the period between November 1947 and September 1948.

The 1950 law categorized Arabs who were "outside the territory of Israel" (i.e. in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip or elsewhere) as absentees whose property would be transferred to a "Custodian of Absentee Property," with no appeal or compensation.

When Israel annexed East Jerusalem following the 1967 war, it enlarged it from its previous 38 square kilometers to 108 by incorporating 28 Arab villages and towns that had not been part of the city. Technically, according the 1950 law, Arab residents of Bethlehem -- parts of whose lands were now in East Jerusalem while their adjoining houses remained in Bethlehem -- could be considered "absentee landlords." However, Israel's attorney general noted in 1950 that it is impossible to designate as absentee landlords people who can come across the new municipal boundary of Jerusalem "at any moment and attest they exist and claim their property."

But fully half a century after the law's enactment, the government of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon decided that what was impossible for its predecessors is possible for them, and surreptitiously applied the 1950 law to Jerusalem and to Palestinians who are separated from their land only by Israel's decision to redraw Jerusalem's municipal boundaries.

They are now considered absentees who have abandoned their property and whose whereabouts are unknown, even if they live only a few yards from their confiscated lands.

I was born in Frankfurt, Germany, in 1930, a few years before Germany's government was taken over -- constitutionally -- by the Nazi Party. In the mid- and late '30s, this government "legally" deprived Germany's Jews of their professions, livelihoods and property. These injustices provoked not much outrage on the part of the German people.

Like the measures taken by the German government in the '30s, Israel's theft of Palestinian property in East Jerusalem occurred within the law, and provoked no outrage from Israelis -- either from the right, or from Sharon's new Labor partners.

Many of these same Palestinians recently had part of their property confiscated by Israel for the construction of the separation fence. When the fence was completed, these Palestinians found themselves cut off from the rest of their property.

Now, as they petition Israel's courts to be given access to their lands across the fence, many of them are being told it actually is no longer their land at all, nor will they receive any compensation for it.

It sounds too unjust, too evil, to be true, particularly for a Jewish state that considers its very existence a living reproach to the German people, and to the world, for the injustices and suffering inflicted on the Jewish people. But the details of Israel's manipulations of the legal system and its theft of Palestinian lands are described in the Israeli media for all to read and see.

Predictably, Israel is invoking security to justify its behavior, as it has invoked that elastic concept to justify other injustices -- as if robbing people of property and possessions that have been in their families for generations can be seen as enhancing Israel's security. In fact, it is being done for political reasons, and out of sheer greed.

How Palestinian Property Was Seized - Council on Foreign Relations

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How convenient you use one of the biggest and dishonest critics of Israel as a reference, Henry Siegman. Are you so pathetically naive as to think merely because he's Jewish that, somehow, that enhances his reputaion for truthfulness?

CAMERA: Henry Siegman’s Expertise: Bashing Israel at Every Turn
Henry Siegman?s Lies – BobFromBrockley Engage – the anti-racist campaign against antisemitism

Henry Siegman, Pro-Palestinian Propagandist - Campus Watch

The Anti-Self Defamation League ??"?: Henry Siegman's Lies About Israel

Jenin said:

Ottomans "owned" palestine? They ruled the palestine and her people as subjects of the ottoman caliphate. The negev was the homeland of several palestinian beduin tribes that lived there for centuries. Jews owned only 6%. And this figure was reached after intensive efforts to purchase as much palestinian land as possible. Palestinians dwelled in every major city and lived in villages, towns and farmin communities all over palestine. The majority of palestinians had ownership deeds predating israel's establishment. The Israeli government confiscated most palestinian property through the absentee law, in which palestinians expelled were not allowed to return and their lands and homes became the property of the state, allocated to jewish settlers and government.

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Complete ahistorical rubbish.

The Ottoman Turks owned Palestine, which, was not known as Palestine, but, rather, it was more commonly known as the southern tip of Syria. Palestine was not a country, but, a geographic territory. As the owners of Palestine and every other part of the empire, the Sultan controlled every square inch of the land and granted rights to land ownership. The majority of land was owned by the Sultan. Secondary land ownership was controlled by wealthy Arab landlords. Pals, by the way, were known as Arabs or Muslims, or, Christians, not Palestinians. Pals were too poor to own much of the land available. They were Bedouins and peasants who were tenant farmers for the most part. Most Bedouins who did own land did so communally and they deliberately did not keep their deeds because of a desire to avoid paying taxes and military conscription. Most Pals who lost land were victimized under Ottoman land reform of the mid 1800s that favored the wealthy and powerful. Lastly, Arabs fled Israel in 1948 as a consequence of a war initiated by the Arabs and a result of fear combined with Arab leaders exhorting them to flee and allow the Arab military to conquer Israel.

You are repeating propaganda that is devoid of historical accuracy. You may think you can get away with it here, but, you will not be able to do so.

Real Talk said:

Look at this map.
Each square that is white, this was once peoples land. And it should have never been usurped.

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Wrong. If "peoples" did not have legal title to land, it was not their land. Renters have no property rights. If you do not own your home, I can "usurp" it if I wish to buy it. Arabs do not own land merely through osmosis.

Real Talk said:

IM sick of all of this talk of %'s of land that are designed to denegrate the fact that land is inhabited by PEOPLE.

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Inhabiting land does not automatically confer ownership of the land. Most of the Arabs living in Palestine were too poor to own the land they lived on. Jewish immigrants purchased the land in Palestine fair and square, completely legally. And, they purchased the land from Arabs. Your sensitivity is touching, however, if I don't own my apartment and someone comes along and offers to buy it from the landlord, I just lost my apartment.

When land was given to Israel by the British mandate, these PEOPLES homes were lost. And there land was occupied by colonists. Totaly against their will, and not as a result of any wrong doing on the part of them selves.

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The British Mandate did not give land to Israel. Jews purchased land. Israel was created after the Mandate had expired, so, you're really confused. Before you post, it would be helpful to study the subject matter, rather than mislead and confuse others.

We should not be talking of how bigger percentage of the british mandate became Jordan, and how much Israel. And how much Palestine (in limbo).
But the fact that these people were evicted from their homes on unjust terms.

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It was unfortunate that Arabs dispossessed each other of land. It was equally unfortunate that Arabs launched a war to annihilate Israel, which back-fired and caused Arabs to flee and become refugees. Blame for the plight of the Pals falls on the shoulders of Arabs, not Jews.

Jenin said:

Jordan is not palestine.

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Wrong, Jordan was generally known as eastern Palestine. Evidenced by the fact that the League of Nations had originally included eastern Palestine in their Palestine Mandate for a Jewish homeland. The Zionist Organization and Chaim Weizmann considered Jordan to be part of Palestine. The PLO considered Jordan part of Palestine, evidenced by Arafat's attempt to take Jordan over in 1970.

Jordan was the leftovers of the imperial carvings of Iraq, Syria, and Saudi arabia.

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Wrong. Trans-Jordan was anything but a "left-over" Trans-Jordan was awarded to the Hashemites from the Hejaz as a prize for their support in WW II.

It is dishonest and really an outright joan peters myth to claim palestine extends to jordan.

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I have not referenced Peters, so do not make assertions you cannot prove. Frankly, judging from your utter confusion of basic history, you really are in no position to impugn my nor Peters' integrity.

Israel is "Stolen Land" not true Israel is Borrowed land by squatters

As I'm typing this, I'm holding my grandparent's passport with a visa on it and stamp that reads "Government of Palestine" dated April 1924.

Some here even refuse to call them Palestinians and to admit that they have a distinct culture, dialect, food, traditional dresses. They had schools, universities, businesses, cities, villages. Why do some insist on calling them Beduins?

Who are these people in these pictures taken as early as late 1800s and before 1948 ? Do they look like Beduins to you ?

more Beduins

a few nomads ?





You can find 27 pages of pictures of Beduins here. Move your curser on the pictures to read captions

index type palestine in the search area and enjoy !

Real Talk said:

IM sick of all of this talk of %'s of land that are designed to denegrate the fact that land is inhabited by PEOPLE.
When land was given to Israel by the British mandate, these PEOPLES homes were lost. And there land was occupied by colonists. Totaly against their will, and not as a result of any wrong doing on the part of them selves.

We should not be talking of how bigger percentage of the british mandate became Jordan, and how much Israel. And how much Palestine (in limbo).
But the fact that these people were evicted from their homes on unjust terms.

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Your sick of the truth as usual.
Not that it ever influences your opinions or next post.
Yet you and others continue the only-bias based slander.

And it's compltely Untrue ..
and shown so many times in this string... even Jenin partially admitted it- and I took it's conclusion on pg 2.

Jenin said:

The partition plan was rejected by the palestinian people and other arabs and the ensuing war resulted in the expultion of most palestinians ...

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mbig said:

Yes. That's true.
It was the ARAB STARTED WAR that resulted in Refugees and lost land.. not any Theft.
Thanks bro.

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additionally, Post #2 in the String:

mbig said:

Further...
No Land Changed Hands when the UN created Israel AND Palestine.. Resolution 181.

It entailed Not a Single Arab having to move.
Displacement/refugees was the Result of the ARAB-started War/rejection of the partition.
Had they not started that war, they would probably be a majority in Israel now instead of the fully enfranchised 20% they are now.
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Re: a few nomads ?

Mira said:

You can find 27 pages of pictures of Beduins here. Move your curser on the pictures to read captions

index type palestine in the search area and enjoy !

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Nobody disputes the existence of Bedouins in Palestine, so, what is your point? Do you even have one?

Mira said:

As I'm typing this, I'm holding my grandparent's passport with a visa on it and stamp that reads "Government of Palestine" dated April 1924....

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Does it say so in English?

Because the British Ruled Palestine from 1917-1948.
After 400 Years of Ottoman Rule.
They have Ottoman Passports too?

And after the Next War, if you lived on the West Bank, you got a JORDANIAN Passport as Jordan had Annexed the West Bank in 1950.
They have those too.. or is that inconvenient/Cause-embarrassing?

Israel was the last self-governing nation/people on that land before the same name was Restored.

Nice pictures of Cairo and Damascus too. :^)
BTW, do you have the 'Right of Return' from France to Lebanon.. er or.. 'palestine'

Blunt said:

Israel is "Stolen Land" not true Israel is Borrowed land by squatters

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When Jews pay exhorbitant prices for desert and swamps, and proceed to transform it into an oasis, then, you really do not look very bright, now, do you?

mbig said:

Does it say so in English?

Because the British Ruled Palestine from 1917-1948.
After 400 Years of Ottoman Rule.
They have Ottoma Passports too?
Or just whatever country.

And after the Next War, if you lived on the West Bank, you got a JORDANIAN Passport as Joran had Annexed the West Bank in 1950.

They have that too.. or is that inconvenient?

Nice pictures of Cairo and Damascus too. :^)
BTW, do you have the 'Right of Return' from France to lebanon.. er or.. 'palestine'

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It says in English "Government of Palestine" I know Palestine was under British mandate and so were Jordan and Egypt while Lebanon and Syria were under French mandate. It still says "Government of PALESTINE"

Re: a few nomads ?

Marc39 said:

Nobody disputes the existence of Bedouins in Palestine, so, what is your point? Do you even have one?

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I'm not denying the existence of Beduins. I'm just trying to show you that the land was not just full of nomads moving around with their camels as some would like to believe.

Re: a few nomads ?

Mira said:

I'm not denying the existence of Beduins. I'm just trying to show you that the land was not just full of nomads moving around with their camels as some would like to believe.

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I don't doubt you. However, Palestine was mostly barren, desolate and lifeless. Centuries of wars and conquests, malaria, locusts and the Black Plague had destroyed the population an the irrigaton systems, and had left the land unarable. Sure, there were sections that flourished, however, they was the exception. Documented reports of visitors and statements by Winston Churchill all paint a picture of Palestine being a wasteland.

mbig said:

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"Stolen" isn't the right word. but this story started long before 1917. Zionism obviously turned out to be an extraordinarily bad idea. and even Jews native to Palestine were saying so ... before 1917. they were right.

Mira said:

It says in English "Government of Palestine" I know Palestine was under British mandate and so were Jordan and Egypt while Lebanon and Syria were under French mandate. It still says "Government of PALESTINE"

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So after you waste a Whole page with immaterial pictures and one implied claim...
The ridiculous "Look I gotta Palestine passport".. (as do Jews and Others...)

There was No 'Arab Ruled Palestine'.

Nor could you answer on the Ottoman or Jordanian Passports. The latter issued to West Bank residents in 1950 when Jordan Annexed the West Bank.

Nor earlier in this string and my other, More to the Point, document this constant innuendo of Stolen land.

niftydrifty said:

"Stolen" isn't the right word. but this story started long before 1917. Zionism obviously turned out to be an extraordinarily bad idea. and even Jews native to Palestine were saying so ... before 1917. they were right.

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Considering Palestine has had an uninterrupted Jewish presence and has, historically represented the ancestral home of the Jews, where would you have Zionists reestablish their Jewish homeland? Wyoming? Zionism may be a "bad idea" to you, however, you're pretty inconsequential, aren't you?

mbig said:

So after you waste a Whole page with immaterial pictures and one implied claim...
The ridiculous "Look I gotta Palestine passport".. (as do Jews and Others...)

There was No 'Arab Ruled Palestine'.

Nor could you answer on the Ottoman or Jordanian Passports. The latter issued to West Bank residents in 1950 when Jordan Annexed the West Bank.

Nor earlier in this string and my other, More to the Point, document this constant innuendo of Stolen land.

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Palestine was never a country. It was viewed as the neglected backyard of the Ottoman Empire. Even Arab landowners were absentee landowners...because, who would want to live in desert and swamps when you could live in a much nicer place in, say, Egypt? Further, Arabs never held Palestine as sacred land, as the Jews have. For Arabs, Palestine was merely a place to live and work. Until Jewish immigration to Palestine in the late 19th century, there was a net emigraton of the Arab population, according to records, because life was largely unsustainable.

Re: a few nomads ?

Marc39 said:

I don't doubt you. However, Palestine was mostly barren, desolate and lifeless. Centuries of wars and conquests, malaria, locusts and the Black Plague had destroyed the population an the irrigaton systems, and had left the land unarable. Sure, there were sections that flourished, however, they was the exception. Documented reports of visitors and statements by Winston Churchill all paint a picture of Palestine being a wasteland.

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I'm interested in reading those reports and would be grateful if you provided me with some. Not necessarily on Internet, I'll go out and buy a book if you recommend me one.

The only plague that I've heard about was iaround the 6th century I think.

Who's talking about a passport ? I said VISA with a stamp. claim ? why do you say claim ?

Immaterial pictures ? You are simply denying a whole culture and a people. You would really like to believe that Palestine was a wasteland. At least according to Marc39. According to my parents and grandparents, that was not the case.

mbig said:

So after you waste a Whole page with immaterial pictures and one implied claim...
The ridiculous "Look I gotta Palestine passport".. (as do Jews and Others...)

There was No 'Arab Ruled Palestine'.

Nor could you answer on the Ottoman or Jordanian Passports. The latter issued to West Bank residents in 1950 when Jordan Annexed the West Bank.

Nor earlier in this string and my other, More to the Point, document this constant innuendo of Stolen land.

Click to expand...

Marc39 said:

Considering Palestine has had an uninterrupted Jewish presence and has, historically represented the ancestral home of the Jews, where would you have Zionists reestablish their Jewish homeland? Wyoming? Zionism may be a "bad idea" to you, however, you're pretty inconsequential, aren't you?

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You know that Herzl considered parts of Argentina to establish a Jewsih state, don't you ?

Mira said:

Who's talking about a passport ? I said VISA with a stamp. claim ? why do you say claim ?

Immaterial pictures ? You are simply denying a whole culture and a people. You would really like to believe that Palestine was a wasteland. At least according to Marc39. According to my parents and grandparents, that was not the case.

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Are you suggesting Palestine was a country because a passport was inscribed "Palestine"? Some living in the territory did refer to it as Palestine. Some referred to it as southern Syria. However, Palestine was not a sovereign entity. It was part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years and part of the Mamluke empire for 200 years before that. Suggesting Palestine was a country is propaganda to make the case that Jews somehow appropriated Arab land, which is a libel.

I am refering to an official stamp which says "Government of Palestine " during the British mandate. I just brought up the visa because it's a family relic that I keep. My grandparents were Lebanese by the way, so the passport is Lebanese.

You should look at the chronology yourself. Here's a short one


8000 BC: Permanent agricultural settlements in Jericho.
2500 BC: Settlement of the Canaanites.
1250 BC: Israelite conquest of Canaan.
965-928 BC: Reign of King Solomon.
721 BC: Assyrian conquest of Israel.
586 BC: Judah defeated by Babylonians.
539 BC: Persians conquer Babylonia.
333 BC: Alexander's conquest of Persia brings Greek rule.
165 BC: Revolt of the Maccabees.
63 BC: Palestine incorporated into Roman Empire.
70 AD: Destruction of Jerusalem Temple by Romans.
135: Bar Kokhba revolt suppressed.
330: Palestine under Byzantine rule (to 638).
638: Muslims capture Palestine from Byzantines.
1099: Jerusalem under Crusader control (to 1187).
1291: Mamelukes capture final Crusader strongholds Acre and Caesarea.
1516: Ottomans capture Palestine (to 1917).
1776-1804: Ahmad Pasha Al Jazzar appointed Ottoman ruler of Acre; builds port, monopolizes trade.
1799: Napoleon attacks Acre; repulsed by Al Jazzar.
1832: Muhammad Ali Pasha of Egypt occupies Palestine (to 1840).
1840: Lord Palmerston advocates Jewish immigration to Palestine.
1869: Suez Canal opened.
1878: First Zionist settlement at Petach Tiqwa.
1882-1903: First wave of 25,000 Zionist immigrants.
1906-14: Second wave of 40,000 Zionist immigrants.
1909: Tel Aviv founded north of Jaffa.
1914: World War I starts; Ottoman Empire joins war on side of Germany, and attacks Russia.
1916: Sykes-Picot Agreement secretly divides Ottoman Empire.
1917: Balfour Declaration pledges UK support for "a Jewish national home in Palestine."
1918: Palestine occupied by UK forces under General Allenby; World War I ends.
1919-23: Third wave of over 35,000 Zionist immigrants.
1920: League of Nations mandates Palestine and Mesopotamia to UK.
1921: UK appoints Haj Amin al-Husseini as Mufti of Jerusalem
1922: UK excludes Transjordan from Jewish immigration; first UK census of Palestine shows 78% Muslim Arab, 11% Jewish, 9.6% Christian Arab.
1924-28: Fourth wave of 67,000 Zionist immigrants, raising Jewish population to 16%.
1929-39: Fifth wave of over 250,000 Zionist immigrants, raising Jewish population to 30%.
1936-39: Arab rebellion in Palestine.
1939-45: World War II in Europe.
1947: UN adopts plan to partition Palestine into two states; Israel declares independence, fights war against Arab forces.

#1: Arab Palestine Before 1948

You can find many more on the net.

Marc39 said:

Are you suggesting Palestine was a country because a passport was inscribed "Palestine"? Some living in the territory did refer to it as Palestine. Some referred to it as southern Syria. However, Palestine was not a sovereign entity. It was part of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years and part of the Mamluke empire for 200 years before that. Suggesting Palestine was a country is propaganda to make the case that Jews somehow appropriated Arab land, which is a libel.

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