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Legalized rape in Afghanistan

Laila said:
Religion can come first but you can still be rational.

He is just pandering to a certain group [hence why the law applies to only a small sect of Afghan women]
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Apparently not in Afghanistan.

Hamid Karzai is a disgrace. I hope he gets removed from power.
 
Laila said:
Religion can come first but you can still be rational.

He is just pandering to a certain group [hence why the law applies to only a small sect of Afghan women]
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Not really. I will allow for the idea that there could be a rational government with an essence of religion, but that is still an interpretation of the religion and thusly not the religion itself.

Theocracy is not rational, as religion is only rational when individuals interpret it and deny the relativism of it. For example, the "Jesus died on the cross, so *these* laws don't apply anymore" is an interpretation of the death of Jesus.

To claim that religion is rational is to be blind.
 
Vader said:
When will the retarded government assholes in those 3rd world ****holes learn to get their religion out of their government.
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God knows, i just hope something stops this law. It's disgusting
 
Laila said:
God knows, i just hope something stops this law. It's disgusting
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I quite agree.

I am in favor of removing the balls of any man who attempts to act on this law.
 
Jerry said:
And all that jaz.

This law, like so many, is nothing but a tool for a husband to use to claim a damage in any resulting lawsuit.
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Do have any idea what the state of the judiciary is in Afghanistan after 30 years of civil war have basically returned the people there to pre-historic times? There is no 'court' system in much of the country. What you have is tribal councils run by village elders, most of whom have very traditional minds about what men and women should be doing for the benefit of the tribe and village.

The idea that this 'law' is somehow a claim is well wide of the mark. Afghan men love and cherish their wives as do the husbands of most any nation, but their views on women are rather similar to the ones held in the USA prior to 'Rosie the riveter' and Susan B. Anthony. Our own change in attitude toward women came about through education, economics, and struggle.

Unfortuantely, most of the tools required to change mysongistic attitudes in Afghanistan are absent, save what appears to be a societal contempt for those who would oppress the Afghan people. This is no doubt one reason why the Nation has proved to historically be so difficult to both conquer and rule.

It is also a reason why, law or not, many Afghan men may find that they have bitten off more than they can chew if they try to carry out in actions what this law intends to legalize.

Afghan society will change over time, but please bear in mind that most Afghan men do not, and will not, rape their wives.

On the other hand, if, even with the benfit of education and participation in a liberal democracy, you still view women as legal transactions or as nothing more than recepticles for your sexual desires that problem is entirely a personal one that has absolutely nothing all at to do with Afghanistan.
 
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Vader said:
I quite agree.

I am in favor of removing the balls of any man who attempts to act on this law.
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LOL
I wouldn't oppose such a law :rofl
 
Vader said:
When will the retarded government assholes in those 3rd world ****holes learn to get their religion out of their government.
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Who told you that countries applying the sharia law are 3rd world countries ?
Had you heard about the UAE ?
FAIL
 
Ahmed Shaheen said:
Who told you that countries applying the sharia law are 3rd world countries ?
Had you heard about the UAE ?
FAIL
Click to expand...

UAE = Third World country.

Only its regime is way worse than any you would expect in a Third World country. It's straight out of the bloody Dark Ages, as is every Arab regime
 
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Ahmed Shaheen said:
Who told you that countries applying the sharia law are 3rd world countries ?
Had you heard about the UAE ?
FAIL
Click to expand...

Actually while we are there let's look at UAE's application of sharia, shall we?

I am sure that it is a bastion of rational enforcement of universal human rights. :roll:

Anyway back to Afghanistan or any third world country. Vader's observations still ring true, that Sharia is a barrier to equal rights in developing Muslim nations. Sure in UAE, or Saudi, the locals have wealth, but do the women have real equality under Sharia, or do they have Mohammed's concept, or was it the scholars (that wrote hadifs later) concept of women's rights?
 
If I am not mistaken, it wasn't too many decades ago (decades, not centuries) that if a wife cut off her husband's supply of nookie, he could sue for "alienation of affection", (or something like that) here in many states of the USA.

Not quite the same thing, but close in principle. Pre-WW2, it used to be assumed that for a woman to capriciously refuse her husband's affections was a violation of the marriage contract. In point of fact, if there isn't a darn good reason for it, I'm not sure I don't agree with that. I don't hold with any use of force in the matter, of course.

G.
 
AYA said:
UAE = Third World country.

Only its regime is way worse than any you would expect in a Third World country. It's straight out of the bloody Dark Ages, as is every Arab regime
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Third_world_countries_map_world_2.PNG


If you are so worried about "Sometimes considered third world" that is because the lack of other income sources like industry ..

Honestly, I do live in Kuwait and I'd noticed clearly that Europians and Americans are increasing here becuase of economical crisis there, GCC countries are the least affected countries by the crisis .
 
Although from 2005, this UN report remains valid...

Afghanistan: Interview With UN Special Rapporteur On Violence Against Women
July 26, 2005
By Golnaz Esfandiari

Yakin Erturk, the United Nations special rapporteur on violence against women, says forced marriages are the prime source of violence in Afghanistan. Erturk returned last week from a 10-day visit to Afghanistan, where she met with judges, prosecutors, aid workers, and women living in shelters and prisons. In an interview with RFE/RL, Erturk says violence against women -- in both private and public life -- remains dramatic in Afghanistan.

Prague, 26 July 2005 (RFE/RL) -- Yakin Erturk, a sociology professor at Middle East Technical University in Ankara, was appointed to the UN human rights post in August 2003. Since then, she has visited a number of countries, including Russia, Iran, Sudan, the Palestinian territories, and most recently Afghanistan.

Professor Erturk told RFE/RL that among all these countries, Afghanistan faces perhaps the most daunting challenge in terms of women’s rights. She says poverty, lack of education, and the damage left by decades of conflict are often cited as the prime causes for the current situation in Afghanistan.

"Afghanistan is very unique in terms of the destruction it has experienced, physical as well as social destruction. All of the countries that I have been to have a working system -- we may not be satisfied with the way it is working, we may be critical of the legislative structure, and in many countries of course there is the problem of gender discrimination, but there is at least a system within which one can work and which offers ways to intervene and improve things. In Afghanistan, this is lacking,” Erturk said.

During her trip to Afghanistan, Erturk visited Kabul, Herat, and Kandahar, and met with government and judiciary officials, as well as members of nongovernmental organizations. She says the majority of the people she met pointed to forced marriage and child marriages as the primary source of violence against women.

The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC) estimates that between 60 percent and 80 percent of marriages in the country are forced marriages which the woman has no right to refuse. Many of those marriages, especially in rural areas, involve girls below the age of 15. The UN rapporteur on violence against women says forced marriages make it far more likely that women will be subjected to domestic violence, including sexual abuse.

“Little girls as young as 6 years old can be married off in return for bride money, and of course this is a very exploitative, vulnerable situation. So this seems to be the root of the problem, but of course we have to put it in the context of Afghanistan’s overall destruction, where not only physical infrastructure but the social fabric of the society has been seriously damaged. All protective mechanisms have withered away. So a rule of power has really become reinforced at all levels. And of course, women and children -- who hold the least power -- have suffered the most,” Erturk says.

Erturk says for the majority of Afghan girls and women, there is no alternative to enduring the violence they encounter. Afghanistan's law-enforcement and judicial systems offer no special protection from female victims of violence, and officials often subject such women to humiliation before returning them to the abusive environments from which they are trying to escape.

Many of the women in the country's prisons are wives who have run away from home or been charged with adultery. Erturk says these women have little reason to expect their lives will improve. “When a woman is away from home, even if it’s not her fault, her reentry into normal life is very difficult, because she’s already been tarnished with a stigma that she is no longer pure -- especially the runaways, who have dared to run away from their husbands or their abusive fathers. They have no place to go,“ Erturk says.

Erturk says the elimination of violence against women should become a priority in Afghanistan. She believes that those involved in organizing child marriages should be prosecuted and punished. She also says that international aid to Afghanistan should be contingent on respect for human rights and protection for women and children. She says the global community entered Afghanistan with a lot of commitments and moral claims. Now it's time to produce some results.
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Source: Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

The typical scenario... An older Kabul male travels to the rural Afghan countryside and offers an impoverished family a decent bride price for their youngest daughter. The male head of the household agrees to accept this generous offer. The daughter has no say whatsoever about marrying this middle-aged stranger.

What usually ensues is a frenzy of abuse... rape, sexual assault, and beatings. There are only three outlets available...

A) Suicide.

B) Running away. When caught by the authorities she will be incarcerated in prison, whipped, and then returned to the abusive husband.

C) Divorce. After she is ruined both physically and mentally, the husband can divorce her merely by saying "I divorce you" three times in front of male witnesses.

A divorced female is an outcast in Afghan society. No other male will marry her because they already know that she is "damaged". If she returns home, she will be blamed for the divorce and probably beaten for "dishonoring the family".
 
Australianlibertarian said:
Actually while we are there let's look at UAE's application of sharia, shall we?

I am sure that it is a bastion of rational enforcement of universal human rights. :roll:

Anyway back to Afghanistan or any third world country. Vader's observations still ring true, that Sharia is a barrier to equal rights in developing Muslim nations. Sure in UAE, or Saudi, the locals have wealth, but do the women have real equality under Sharia, or do they have Mohammed's concept, or was it the scholars (that wrote hadifs later) concept of women's rights?
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Ok, I will agree the fact that women in "Saudi Arabia" specially are under oppression, and I've heard that from many Saudi women in youtube and TV. Thats not because they are apllying the Sharia law, its because they tend to oppress women under the name of law. Lets come to kuwait for eg. I'd born here and I'd never saw any problem concerning women, as women here have the right to elect and run in the elections too, they have their right to devorce their husbands too (the right of "women from men" devorce was first applied in Egypt" . And of course the right to drive "unlike Saudi Arabia" to work to participate in seminars etc... So don't try to convence me that what is Saudi Arabia doing is an apply of Sharia law, its the oppression itself .
 
Tashah said:
Although from 2005, this UN report remains valid...


Source: Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

The typical scenario... An older Kabul male travels to the rural Afghan countryside and offers an impoverished family a decent bride price for their youngest daughter. The male head of the household agrees to accept this generous offer. The daughter has no say whatsoever about marrying this middle-aged stranger.

What usually ensues is a frenzy of abuse... rape, sexual assault, and beatings. There are only three outlets available...

A) Suicide.

B) Running away. When caught by the authorities she will be incarcerated in prison, whipped, and then returned to the abusive husband.

C) Divorce. After she is ruined both physically and mentally, the husband can divorce her merely by saying "I divorce you" three times in front of male witnesses.

A divorced female is an outcast in Afghan society. No other male will marry her because they already know that she is "damaged". If she returns home, she will be blamed for the divorce and probably beaten for "dishonoring the family".
Click to expand...

Too bad, but I wanna highlight about that divorce without a definitive reason is forbidden in Islam .
 
Tashah said:
Although from 2005, this UN report remains valid...


Source: Radio Free Europe / Radio Liberty

The typical scenario... An older Kabul male travels to the rural Afghan countryside and offers an impoverished family a decent bride price for their youngest daughter. The male head of the household agrees to accept this generous offer. The daughter has no say whatsoever about marrying this middle-aged stranger.

What usually ensues is a frenzy of abuse... rape, sexual assault, and beatings. There are only three outlets available...

A) Suicide.

B) Running away. When caught by the authorities she will be incarcerated in prison, whipped, and then returned to the abusive husband.

C) Divorce. After she is ruined both physically and mentally, the husband can divorce her merely by saying "I divorce you" three times in front of male witnesses.

A divorced female is an outcast in Afghan society. No other male will marry her because they already know that she is "damaged". If she returns home, she will be blamed for the divorce and probably beaten for "dishonoring the family".
Click to expand...

I agree that Afghanistan's treatment of women is deplorable. However, in a society of 30 million people, the cases you write about above are not exactly 'typical'. The vast majority of Afghan men do not participate in these types of behaviors.

We need to bear in mind that Afghanistan basically ceased to exist as a functioning Nation State. There were no police. There was no court system. The rule of law was entirely absent, and that remains the case in much of the country. Into this void lay the warlords who could do anything they and their forces could allow them to get away with. The rape of women by this tiny elite also included the purchase and rape of young men. The same wealthy purchase of women happens throughout the region, even with the benefit of stable societies.

However, we must bear in mind that this was a minority of Afghan society. An upper crust that had clawed its way to power and maintained that power through violence. Control rested upon absolute ruthlessness and not upon the rule of law and consequence (though consequence came to many of these warlords). That men of such ruthlessness in political terms also harbor other deviant behaviors should not come as a shock.

We have similar problems in our own country. Tens of thousands of women are raped every year in our country without the excuse of our societies collapse. I have a friend who worked her way through college in an up-scale restraunt in New York, who routinely watched a wealthy local businessman and his wife come into the restraunt with prostitutes for him and his wife to exploit upon finishing dinner. Is sexual degredation in New York better than in Afgahnistan? Are American prostitutes in better conditions than Afghan women, many of whom are trafficked into this country?

"A 1994 study conducted with 68 women in Minneapolis/St.Paul who had been prostituted for at least six months found that half the women had been physically assaulted by their purchasers, and a third of these experienced purchaser assaults at least several times a year. 23% of those assaulted were beaten severely enough to have suffered broken bones. Two experienced violence so vicious that they were beaten into a coma. Furthermore, 90% of the women in this study had experienced violence in their personal relationships resulting in miscarriage, stabbing, loss of consciousness, and head injuries (Parriott, Health Experiences of Twin Cities Women Used in Prostitution)."

"[In] another survey of 55 victims/survivors of prostitution who used the services of the Council for Prostitution Alternative in Portland, Oregon, 78% were victims of rape by pimps and male buyers an average of 49 times a year; 84% were the victims of aggravated assault and were thus horribly beaten, often requiring emergency room attention and hospitalization; 53% were victims of sexual abuse and torture; and 27% were mutilated"

Health Effects of Prostitution, Making the Harm Visible, Global Sexual Exploitation of Women and Girls, Speaking Out and Providing Services

Attitudes toward women as sexual objects rather than human beings appears to very much span the globe. Whether it be lack of enforcement of existing laws, ciminalization of victims rather than treatment, or simply the powerful using force, corruption, or some combination thereof, there is clearly an unaddressed problem.

The mysogenistic attitudes that subordinate women in Afghanistan are different than the problems of sexual abuse and should be separated and treated with the appropriate solutions.

Across the globe, efforts to combat trafficking, to curtail prostitution, and to treat the victims of sexual abuse are often underfunded and those who enter these disciplines in large organizations often find themselves unpromotable leading to a gap in abilities relating to systemic management and other critical skills. How many UN ambassadors have experience as policy makers in this field from any country?

The sexual exploitation and subsequent discarding of broken women is hardly unique to Afghanistan. Establishing and helping fund programs to aid and rehabilitate these women would be of enormous help, and should be both supported and applauded for their actions.

HelpAfghanWomen.com - A Project of the Feminist Majority
 
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Ahmed Shaheen said:
Who told you that countries applying the sharia law are 3rd world countries ?
Had you heard about the UAE ?
FAIL
Click to expand...

Saudi Arabia is the country at that allowed a 47 year-old pedophile remain married to an 8 year-old girl.

Only 3rd world ****holes and backwards Islamic theocracies still see this as "legal".

YOU FAIL FOR DEFENDING THEIR HORRIBLE ACTIONS!
 
Ahmed Shaheen said:
Too bad, but I wanna highlight about that divorce without a definitive reason is forbidden in Islam .
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Only if you're a common citizen.

The weathly shieks and those types are free to use and abuse.
 
AYA said:
UAE = Third World country.

Only its regime is way worse than any you would expect in a Third World country. It's straight out of the bloody Dark Ages, as is every Arab regime
Click to expand...

LOL

Ahmed just got MCOWNED!!!!!

HAHAHAHHAHAHA
 
Vader said:
Saudi Arabia is the country at that allowed a 47 year-old pedophile remain married to an 8 year-old girl.

Only 3rd world ****holes and backwards Islamic theocracies still see this as "legal".

YOU FAIL FOR DEFENDING THEIR HORRIBLE ACTIONS!
Click to expand...

Warren Jeffs. Jim Jones.

You fail to apply your own standards to your own religious extremists.

Now Vader, as you bash an entire religion you will clearly take no time to study in context (the five pillars of Islam that most Muslims follow is dangerous?), what the hell does that have to do with exploitation of women in Afghanistan?

Do you actually think you are helping them by ignorantly bashing a billion people? What you say publically is exactly the sort of thing that men like Akmadinijad will cite as proof of Western arrogance, ignorance, and of the futility of engaging in discourse.

Again Vader, extremist driven demonization does not solve anything. Can you engage in anything of substance or have you confined yourself to sophomoric attacks?
 
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gree0232 said:
Warren Jeffs. Jim Jones.

You fail to apply your own standards to your own religious extremists.

Now Vader, as you bash an entire religion you will clearly take no time to study in context (the five pillars of Islam that most Muslims follow is dangerous?), what the hell does that have to do with exploitation of women in Afghanistan?

Do you actually think you are helping them by ignorantly bashing a billion people? What you say publically is exactly the sort of thing that men like Akmadinijad will cite as proof of Western arrogance, ignorance, and of the futility of engaging in discourse.

Again Vader, extremist driven demonization does not solve anything. Can you engage in anything of substance or have you confined yourself to sophomoric attacks?
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OK.

1. Warren Jeffs is IN PRISON FOR HIS CRIMES .... not free to rape his eight year-old bride like that pedophile in Saudi Pedorabia --- so you FAIL
2. Jim Jones is DEAD --- so you fail AGAIN
3. Aminajackoff is an insane lunatic --- who is known former terorist assbag --- so you FAIL yet again.
4. Having my dislike of child raping Islamic zealot asshats challenged you is not exactly anything that concerns me.
5. You pattern of failures is noted.
6. The national tree hug-a-thon is currently well underway in Berkley, California.
 
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Vader said:
Saudi Arabia is the country at that allowed a 47 year-old pedophile remain married to an 8 year-old girl.

Only 3rd world ****holes and backwards Islamic theocracies still see this as "legal".

YOU FAIL FOR DEFENDING THEIR HORRIBLE ACTIONS!
Click to expand...

1) Those illegal marriage are being done in the tribal areas, where people aren't civiled enough to know that its a shame .

2) You are talking about 22757092 person living in Saudi Arabia, not because some of them made that illegal marriage that means that its legal and its done under a law-trusteeship

3) I bet you find me a post where I defended the pedophile or that illegal marriage .

4) Please dont post before reading the previous posts because its so clear that you hadn't read posts #37 and #39

And Your FAILS goes on ....
 
Vader said:
Only if you're a common citizen.

The weathly shieks and those types are free to use and abuse.
Click to expand...

LMFAO, shieks have the least divorce situations, its almost 0%, those people are the first to know that divorce is God's last wanted ..
 
Vader said:
OK.

1. Warren Jeffs is IN PRISON FOR HIS CRIMES --- so you FAIL
2. Jim Jones is DEAD --- so you fail AGAIN
3. Aminajackoff is an insane lunatic --- who is known former terorist assbag --- so you FAIL yet again.
4. Having my dislike of child raping Islamic zealot asshats challenged you is not exactly anything that concerns me.
5. You pattern of failures is noted.
6. The national tree hug-a-thon is currently well underway in Berkley, California.
Click to expand...

1. So all of Jim Jones followers are in jail are they and of course their church has been disbanded? All of Jim Jones victims are now alive? Nope. So, your grasp of logic fails again.

2. Attacking pedophiles in Saudi Arabia has what to do with women in Afghanistan? Nothing. So you fail.

3. Afghanistan is not an Arabic country, it is in fact mostly Pashtun. So your ignorance fails yet again.

4. Not every Muslim, even in SA thinks that pedophilia is a good thing. So you fail again by not only demoning the perp, but an entirely different culture as well.

5. Have you ever had a success on this forum, other than having people laugh at you? Your pattern of failure is noted.

6. Have fun with the Dungeons and Dragons convention held in someone's basement.

If you don't know what you are talking about, please resist the temptation to open your mouth and embarass yourself.
 
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