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Combatants Account for 75% of Gaza Operation Fatalities

donsutherland1

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Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook
 
Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook
Oh give me a break! There's almost a million dead in Iraq. Are you saying there's 710,000 combatants in that country? And what is this "urban warfare required"? You didn't need to invade. And you won't go for any truce until you get some stuff done. In someone else's country. But like I said, you're both to blame.
 
Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook

Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.
 
Oh give me a break! There's almost a million dead in Iraq. Are you saying there's 710,000 combatants in that country? And what is this "urban warfare required"? You didn't need to invade. And you won't go for any truce until you get some stuff done. In someone else's country. But like I said, you're both to blame.




Are you suggesting that all 710,000 (it is actually 98k Iraq Body Count ) were killed by the US?

Fact is most of it was Iraqi on Iraqi... you failed multiple times here. :lol:
 
Oh give me a break! There's almost a million dead in Iraq. Are you saying there's 710,000 combatants in that country? And what is this "urban warfare required"? You didn't need to invade. And you won't go for any truce until you get some stuff done. In someone else's country. But like I said, you're both to blame.

I believe that that references the actual war (against Saddam's government), not the insurgency that followed
 
Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook

Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever
 
Are you suggesting that all 710,000 (it is actually 98k Iraq Body Count ) were killed by the US?

Fact is most of it was Iraqi on Iraqi... you failed multiple times here. :lol:
I got a "D" in algebra one semester.

Took it again the very next semester, got another "D".
 
Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever

Oh, please. Don't pretend that any effort by the Israeli's to limit civilian casualties would satisfy you.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians exercise no control whatsoever.
 
Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.

What is biased about this source?

How is this bias affecting his reporting?

How is this source "denying outside sources" and who are these "outside sources?"

Thanks in advance.
 
Oh, please. Don't pretend that any effort by the Israeli's to limit civilian casualties would satisfy you.

Meanwhile, the Palestinians exercise no control whatsoever.
And neither does Israel.
 
What is biased about this source?

How is this bias affecting his reporting?

How is this source "denying outside sources" and who are these "outside sources?"

Thanks in advance.

Should have said, "denying outside sources access to Gaza"

The report comes from Israeli military and political correspondents, not reporters amidst the conflict. Basically any news you see from now until when Israel lets foreign reporters into Gaza is biased.

Israel Puts Media Clamp on Gaza
 
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Oh give me a break! There's almost a million dead in Iraq. Are you saying there's 710,000 combatants in that country? And what is this "urban warfare required"? You didn't need to invade. And you won't go for any truce until you get some stuff done. In someone else's country. But like I said, you're both to blame.

The figures are only for 2003 during the time of major combat. Many more casualties resulted afterward and the civilian-to-combatant ratio rose during the insurgency period. The majority of civilians who died during the insurgency phase died at the hands of the insurgents.

In any case, the point is that Israel is pushing the frontiers of what is possible in reducing civilian casualties during significant combat.
 
Extraordinary is definitely the word. Such statistics, while commended on the surface, are clearly suspect. Especially when they are being reported by a biased source who also happens to be denying outside sources.

In this case, the statistics come from U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes and not the IDF.
 
In this case, the statistics come from U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes and not the IDF.

And the facts are still disputable. What added perspective does the UN chief have?

More than 500 Palestinians have been killed, including more than 100 civilians, according to United Nations figures. Nine Israelis have died since the operation began.

As you must know, these kind of statistics take time. The AP source does not say 400 combatants and 100 civilians were killed. Otherwise we would see news sources all over praising Israeli precision.

As we were discovering in the other thread, it is not readily apparent who is being counted as an "operative" or "combatant". It is very premature to give such praise as I am confident future investigation will portray a far more realistic and sobering picture.
 
The figures are only for 2003 during the time of major combat. Many more casualties resulted afterward and the civilian-to-combatant ratio rose during the insurgency period. The majority of civilians who died during the insurgency phase died at the hands of the insurgents.

In any case, the point is that Israel is pushing the frontiers of what is possible in reducing civilian casualties during significant combat.
Why can't they reduce casualties by reducing combat?

And I don't agree with the dying at the hands of insurgents rap. They don't have that many car bombs. We, on the other hand, have a lot of weapons. I think an air strike causes more casualties than a car bomb could. We have a bomb that has a kill zone the size of a football field. Another thing, there's not that many insurgents in Iraq. Centcom estimated 10-15% of the combatants were foreign fighters. The rest were Iraqis. And they have every right to defend their homeland from a foreign force. A lot of the sectarian violence came from the death squads set up by the Shia government that came to power on the back of US tanks.
 
Nice score, but it's still too much for a war whose consequences will be to turn Gazan people more islamist than ever

Then KILL THEM FOR IT. I hope they all become "Islamist" enuf to fight over it, then extermination can proceed to completion.

When a people do something that means you need to WAR on them, worrying about their feelings is completely foolhardy.

When you decide to kill someone, finish, and kill anyone who wants vengeance over it too.

What do you think we would do if a Death Penalty inmate's family member really tried to free him ? ? ? We would kill that family member too.
 
Then KILL THEM FOR IT. I hope they all become "Islamist" enuf to fight over it, then extermination can proceed to completion.

When a people do something that means you need to WAR on them, worrying about their feelings is completely foolhardy.

When you decide to kill someone, finish, and kill anyone who wants vengeance over it too.

What do you think we would do if a Death Penalty inmate's family member really tried to free him ? ? ? We would kill that family member too.

How have you not been banned from these forums for encouraging hate and violence towards Palestinians?

Does anyone really feel this post has any other purpose?
 
Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook

Did we count graduating police cadets and pretty much every member of the Ba'athist party as combatants in Iraq?

You are comparing one vague quote from an AP article to a detailed study of Iraqi casualties. Without setting the same parameters for combatant and non-combatant the comparison is worthless.
 
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How have you not been banned from these forums for encouraging hate and violence towards Palestinians?

I think its because I'm sooooo good lookin.

Terrorists who voted Hamas in at 70% need to be exterminated.

Hate and Violence is what the palestinians have coming.

Reap the whirlwind third world bitches.
 
Today, the Associated Press reported, "U.N. humanitarian chief John Holmes said the overall Palestinian toll since the opening of the Gaza campaign on Dec. 27 stood at about 500, with about 125 of them civilians." Those numbers would indicate that 75% of fatalities in Operation Cast Lead are combatants.

Given the density of population, Hamas' human shielding, and the urban warfare required, the low number of civilian deaths relative to combatant deaths is extraordinary. To put things into context, during the Iraq War in 2003, combatants accounted for 71% of fatalities.

The population density figures are as follows:

Gaza Strip: 4,167 per square kilometer
Iraq: 65 per square kilometer

Source: CIA World Factbook

It should be noted for those who care about accuracy that the formula the the UNRWA used to arrive at figures cited in the OP was to consider any male over the age of 18 as non civilian.

Responding to numerous questions about why only women and children were counted as civilian casualties, Mr. Holmes said the UNRWA figure of civilian casualties had been given to avoid accusations of exaggeration or unclearness about civilians, or others who might be Hamas militants. It was meant to give a credible, minimum figure. He knew that there were civilian men who had been killed, including one UNRWA staff. It was not meant to be “super considerate” of Israel, as one correspondent suggested. There were civilians killed who were men, but women and children were the only ones one could reasonably be sure were civilians. The given number was not based on a methodology, he said. Neither did he mean to say that all men killed were Hamas.

PRESS CONFERENCE ON SITUATION IN GAZA
 
Now I know why Israel doesn't want western reporters into Gaza. Israel is ****ed! What their doing is ****ed! What their saying is ****ed! And the only way to defend their actions, is with lies.

Saying their trying to minimize civilian casualties is a croc of ****! They shot 2 navy shells that landed within 15 feet of a hospital emergency room. And last Sunday, they killed Palestinian paramedics as they were trying to administer care to the wounded. They've shot at ambulances, while telling us about this human shield garbage.

On Sunday, an Israeli raid killed at least four paramedics as they tried to reach wounded Palestinians. Ambulances have also been hit in the attacks, Palestinian sources said.
Israel has had a blockade on Gaza for the last 18 months.

No wonder they got rockets.

Israel, what is wrong with you?
Iyad Nasr of the Red Cross in Gaza City said that the military operation has worsened the hardships created by the Israeli blockade over the last 18 months.

"The size of the operations and the size of the misery we are seeing here on the ground is just overwhelming," he said.

"We are trying our best to support the infrastructure that has been depleted ... and prevent the total collapse of the medical systems
.
You can't treat people like garbage for this long and expect them to say, "Thank you!"

It's more like, "**** you!"

You can't get any more detached from reality than Israeli apologists or government officials...
Tzipi Livni, the Israeli foreign minister, has said that there is no crisis and that aid is getting through,
Not according to the people who actually give aid to the needy...
...but Christopher Gunness, the UN Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa) spokesman, said her denials were absurd. "The organisation for which I work - Unrwa - has approximately 9,000 to 10,000 workers on the ground. They are speaking with the ordinary civilians in Gaza... People are suffering," he said.

"A quarter of all those being killed now are civilians. So when I hear people say we're doing our best to avoid civilian casualties that rings very hollow indeed.
But just to be fair, Hamas officials...
Despite the crisis in Gaza, Mahmoud al-Zahar, a senior Hamas official, said the group was heading for "victory" against the Israeli military.
...are simply nuts!

How the hell could anyone vote for them?

I guess when the assholes next door have stopped you from getting groceries for the last 18 months, you'll vote for anyone that calls them ****ers!

Israel, you are ****ers!
 
It should be noted for those who care about accuracy that the formula the the UNRWA used to arrive at figures cited in the OP was to consider any male over the age of 18 as non civilian.

I was not aware of that information.

In that case, the UNRWA is deliberately misleading journalists by offering numbers that are purely speculative. The proper communications approach would be to state that UNRWA does not have sufficient information to provide figures and to refrain from any kind of speculation until proper information is available.

In my opinion, the above raises grave questions about UNRWA's credibility with respect to the state of affairs in the Gaza Strip.
 
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