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Combatants Account for 75% of Gaza Operation Fatalities

Jenin said:
Israel is using precision weapons to bomb babies to death.
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No, Israel is using precision weapons to prevent a terrorist organization from continuously violating the sovereignty of their borders and attacking their citizens. The fact that Palestinian "babies" die are a direct result of Hamas doing the two things I just mentioned. These babies deaths are because of Hamas' actions. If they want these deaths to stop, they need to stop.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
No, Israel is using precision weapons to prevent a terrorist organization from continuously violating the sovereignty of their borders and attacking their citizens. The fact that Palestinian "babies" die are a direct result of Hamas doing the two things I just mentioned. These babies deaths are because of Hamas' actions. If they want these deaths to stop, they need to stop.
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You cannot target babies that take no part in hostilities.

And it is absolutely irresponsible on your part to make a statement like that.

Israel is not going to have its cake and eat it too.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Not when others attempt to control Israel. That's when your neat little sentence ceases to be accurate.
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Do you blame them? Israel's boundaries have spread over the past 60 years at an alarming rate. That would upset me greatly if I were living in that region.
 
Billo_Really said:
You cannot target babies that take no part in hostilities.

And it is absolutely irresponsible on your part to make a statement like that.

Israel is not going to have its cake and eat it too.
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The fallacy in your comment is that I never said that Israel is targeting babies...since they do not. The only ones targeting civilians are Hamas and the Palestinians. Therefore, your comment is irrelevant.
 
Billo_Really said:
15 deaths in 8 years is not a power grab.
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The numbers are irrelevant. Hamas started this and keeps it going. They are causing their citizenry to pay the price. If they care as much about their citizens as you do, they would stop what they have been doing.
 
EgoffTib said:
Do you blame them? Israel's boundaries have spread over the past 60 years at an alarming rate. That would upset me greatly if I were living in that region.
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I suppose this would not be happening if they and their neighbors didn't attack Israel. So, yes, I do blame them, but not in the way that you think. Cease the attacks. Round up and arrest militants and terrorists. Oust Hamas. Renounce the charter. These are all things they have not tried which would lead to peace. Their responsibility that things are as they are.
 
It's a falsified article.
The article that you mentioned doesn't exist on AP site.
To the contraire, I found the following article:

UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
By IBRAHIM BARZAK and KARIN LAUB
Associated Press Writer
News : Jacksonville Daily News

It's clear that, as usual, the article that you had posted is another Israeli cheat.
 
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Alex33 said:
It's a falsified article.
The article that you mentioned doesn't exist on AP site.
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If you think the article is false, contact Google and report it. Google has a partnership with AP through which it disseminates some of AP's content. I have no reason to suspect that Google would be posting false stories using AP's byline.
 
Degreez said:
A source that the UN deems credible. It is run by Hamas because Hamas was voted in power in Gaza. I already know this. It is run by Hamas, and the UN reports the Hamas-run Health Ministry is credible. .
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Do you understand that there are 2 sides fighting? However long and loud the UN says that Hamas is credible, it does not add a bit of creditability to HAMAS. It only proves that the UN is not credible again, as it has a pattern of such behavior. I want to hear from both sides not only from HAMAS.


Degreez said:
Do you want to keep debating the same thing over and over, or will you finally acknowledge the death of MANY civilians who are being punished collectively with Hamas? .
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I will not acknowledge a dead of a single civilian as the result of collective punishment, until you prove that Israel is not conducting a just war but has collective punishment as the goal.

Degreez said:
The fact that you are disputing the numbers show me you have no concern that it is women and children dying in 'Israel's defensive action'. .
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Didn’t I mention my ethnical pride? The author of the following is a part of my ethnical culture and its pride:

Tell me yourself, I challenge your answer. Imagine that you are creating a fabric of human destiny with the object of making men happy in the end, giving them
peace and rest at last, but that it was essential and inevitable to
torture to death only one tiny creature -- that baby beating its breast
with its fist, for instance -- and to found that edifice on its
unavenged tears, would you consent to be the architect on those
conditions? Tell me, and tell the truth."

You are not only Anti-Semite but an *****!

Even a single child, only one tiny creature. You keep on playing a victim and thus are causing my anger, because it is getting more and more clear to me that you support murders of children, HAMAS, murdering its own children for the sake of reaching its goal of murdering Jewish children, and this what I cannot stand at.

Mochit.

You appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy, and you keep on using it all the time.


Degreez said:
You are showing that collective punishment is not wrong, because the numbers of those being collectively punished are disputed, although consistent with ALL sources. Show me one legitimate source saying the amount dying and wounded is disputed with proper claims. .
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You cannot count and do not know simple arithmetic when you say that your numbers are consistent.

ALL your sources are disputing each other as they give inconsistent and unrealistic and unconfirmed independently numbers having the only one origination – the one which fights Israel and they are refusing to take in account any source that has Israeli origination or obviously they are falsifying Israeli statements.

I specifically claim collective punishment is unacceptable. You still have to prove that it has place.

Each sentence of your has logical fallacies, false premises and unrelated conclusions. 3 sentences have 9 problems of such kinds. You are impossible to talk to, you are just exposing your hatred, but not considering the subject in any rational way.

-
Degreez said:
The numbers are not verified. Why? Israel won't let independent reporters verify these 'claims deemed credible by the UN'. Why? .
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All I am pointing that the numbers are no verified, thus cannot be taken as true without additional considerations I have given. And you say that they are not verified, and 2 lines above you say that they should be trusted to.

-
Degreez said:
The local Ministry of Health is run by Hamas. Are you letting me know Hamas already has the power to do this? .
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Are you letting me know that HAMAS is not the governing body elected by Palestinans to put themselves to death and suffering?

Degreez said:
Do you have legitimate proof that uninjured Hamas militants use ambulances as a cover in combat? .
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The videos were posted, I SEE WHAT I SEE.

Degreez said:
Remember, even if you answer these questions, all I have to do is use your tact: 'none of these claims are verified independently', blablahblabla. .
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'none of these claims are verified independently' is only a part of my reasoning. It also has a number of other parts, it is very telling how you address them as blhblahblah. I give reasoning, and all you can say back – that my reasoning are blahblahblah.
Degreez said:
- Prove that Hamas FORCES or 'MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, FORCES' males under 18 to engage in combat. They are suspect at best.
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The proof that Hamas FORCES males under 18 has been posted – and quoted from the same, the UN source. Besides the UN I have seen the proof MORE OFTEN THAN NOT everywhere in my life as I watched TV, read Internet, news and books . I will not consider such a fact disputable. I am not to prove things that are self evident. As to estimating of the percentage - 'MORE OFTEN THAN NOT’ – I see it as a policy of HAMAS – to force 100% of physically capable. I am not to prove things that are self evident.

Degreez said:
To one side that sounds like a just cause, to the other it screams 'Terrorism'! .
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It is self-evident, that the children are sure that they go to kill for the right cause, why should I mention things that are self-evident?
Degreez said:
However, observers told IRIN some young men join the militias in order to earn money or get assistance for their families because there are simply no other jobs.
How is Israel's blockade on Gaza doing with deterring people from joining Hamas or Islamic Jihad? .
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That only confirms the self-evident fact that HAMAS controlling financial and provisional aid from Israel and the US uses it as a tool of its policy to recruit/force all children to kill Israelis. As well maintaining the situation of no other jobs is another tool of HAMAS which makes extermination of Jews and Israel by murder its primary goal. Supplying HAMAS with recruiting tools or not does not make a difference, only mochit does.
Degreez said:
Originally Posted by From the same article

Psychologist Rana Nashashabi said there was little difference between children joining the Palestinian resistance and young recruits for almost any army in the world.

“From about 16 they are considered to be in optimum physical and mental condition and they are at an age when they want to carry guns and feel powerful,” she said.

In Israel, all boys and girls are required to serve in the military once they turn 18, although most Arab-Israelis are exempt from this.
Sounds like Israel forces more people to join to its cause then Hamas has total members throughout history. .
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It proves

1. one more time to add to many that Hamas FORCES or 'MORE OFTEN THAN NOT, FORCES' males under 18 to engage in combat.

2. that “From about 16 they are considered to be in optimum physical and mental condition and they are at an age when they want to carry guns’ - and thus counting males under 18 is a flawed methodology, - 16 to 18 should be subtracted, as well as mothers sending children to die horrible death.

3. In Russia all boys are required to serve in the military once they turn 18,- for 2 ( now 1?) years- far away from their towns and villages – although most university students are exempt from this, - as a rule they have to receive training of military commanders.

Israel forces more people to join to its cause then Hamas has total members throughout history, and Israel has a totally different cause than Hamas. The cause makes a huge difference.
YouTube - Hamas Indoctrinating Toddlers
YouTube - Children of Hamas
YouTube - Hamas Mickey Mouse Teaches Terror to Kids
YouTube - Palestinian child becomes Jihad fighter in Hamas clip
YouTube - Palestinian child becomes a martyr in PA clip
YouTube - 11-year-old Palestinians: Martyrdom better than this world
YouTube - Palestinian children presented as warriors in Hamas clip
YouTube - Palestinian children taught to aspire to martyrdom
YouTube - For the TV camera, Palestinian Mother Sends Son to be Killed
YouTube - Palestinian Mother Proud of Suicide Bomber Son



It is really revolting how you, Billo, bub and other advocates of terrorism and murder try to equate actions of Israelis with actions of Palestinians. One may not like Jews but this is - what i see is over any limits. This is more than cannibalism, - to do this to your own children.
 
Degreez said:
Bombing apartment buildings because they may or may not have weapons is not an act of minimizing or even attempting to minimize civilian casualties. .
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Indiscriminate Bombing apartment buildings is not an act of minimizing or even attempting to minimize civilian casualties.

Degreez said:
Destroying a UN-run school that the IDF has GPS coordinates for, saying they were just returning fire from the attacks from inside the school then later retracting that claim when it was rejected by the UN and saying it was 'unintentional' is not trying to minimize civilian casualties in any way. .
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It is not, I fully addressed the issue.

Degreez said:
Do you have any valid proof that your estimate of the # dead is more accurate than those given by the UN-deemed-credible, Hamas-run Ministry of Health? If not, don't assert claims you cannot justify. .
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I have given the proof and the methodology. Having the goal to see if Israel makes reasonable effort to minimize casualties and considering the numbers, sources and methodology given as well as the corrections which have to be made to the numbers, I came to the maximum percentage that may be realistic and it shows that Israel undertakes UNREASONABLE efforts.

Degreez said:
Then place such blame for inaccurate sources on Israel's inability to allow independent sources into Gaza and not on me. .
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I am placing the only blame – that you represent the sources as accurate and consistent and 2 lines after you admit they are not accurate and consistent. Why should I blame Israel for not allowing journalists? I would rather blame the US for allowing journalists in its wars, I hope now we will learn from Israelis.

Degreez said:
Hamas, is the representative of majority Gaza Palestinians, not all Palestinians. Make more broad generalizations. .
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I have not made any generalization in the application to the problem at hand. I have no clue what application to the problem your statement can ever have.
Art. 5 Where in the territory of a Party to the conflict, the latter is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected of or engaged in activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual person shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges
I see that attitude of Palestinians towards Israel is quite uniform whether they voted for Hamas or another guy – whatever is his name Abass -? It is not my or Israel obligation to figure out who voted for Hamas who did not, in either case the casualties have to be minimized, armed criminals should be killed or forced to surrender, they have to be punished according their crimes, their supporters should be prevented from making another mistake, the goal is to give Palestinians a chance of prosperity of peace.
Degreez said:
The UN's inconsistency is because of what? .
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Again you just claimed they were consistent.
Degreez said:
It goes back to Israel not allowing independent sources inside the Gaza Strip to verify any claims by either side. .
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Good for Israel, I hope now we will learn from Israelis.

Degreez said:
Show me one legitimate source that Hamas militants are the majority deaths. You will not find one. .
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I have already pointed to the methodology of gathering the truth when all sources do lie. I start from HAMAS itself claiming that Hamas militants are the majority deaths and look at ALL – too many to count within the time given - realities realistically, I have a minimal doubt that Israel complies with the rules of war, - such as the one in the question, - People and property that do not contribute to the war effort should be protected against unnecessary destruction and hardship, when HAMAS on other side does not, and I am not even meaning actions of HAMAS towards Israel.

Degreez said:
UN rejects IDF claim Gaza militants operated from bombed-out school - Haaretz - Israel News
Quote:
The IDF bombed the UNRWA school, Fakhura, on Tuesday after militants fired mortars at troops from inside the school, according to the IDF Spokesman's Office. The bodies of militants were found inside, it added.
UNRWA: news: commissioner-general's statements
.
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Does not add or change anything, my statement and questions remain the same.

But I think I may be wrong - I am getting HAARETZ now, - quoting the UN officials without any comments it shows that the claims of the UN officials are so absurd and so away from reality that no comments needed. Only for me who is a justone stranger to the events the claims would require an investigation and googling. For HAARETZ’s audience it must be self-evident. Thus it is clearly pictures the UN as an evil for Israel, which as my investigation shows is true, nothing new, the US has the same problem with the UN all the time, but the difference is that Israel does not have power of the US there.
Degreez said:
Quote:
On the allegation that Israeli troops came under fire from inside the school, Ging added:

"I have been reassured by my own staff that there were no militants in the schools. If anybody has evidence to the contrary, then let's bring it forward

.
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As to the allegation that Israeli troops did not came under fire from inside the IDF official added:
"I have been reassured by my own staff that there were militants firing from the schools. If anybody has evidence to the contrary, then let's bring it forward

Seriously, I made my point, - I cannot make accusation until I get more information.
How did it happen - that Israel fired at school that was not conducting fire or having militants inside ready to conduct fire? What was the reason, cause, - just to make the world mad? Why Israel broke the pattern all over suddenly? How did it happen that militants were not hiding, conducting fire from schools and behinds the backs of their children? Why did they break the pattern all over suddenly?

Degreez said:
I think I already proved it was lie. You're the one choosing not to see it..
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I asked: the 2 statements by IDF are opposite to each other.


Which one is true?

What was a lie that you proved, and why it is one but not another?
 
justone said:

It is really revolting how you, Billo, bub and other advocates of terrorism and murder try to equate actions of Israelis with actions of Palestinians. One may not like Jews but this is - what i see is over any limits. This is more than cannibalism, - to do this to your own children.
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Justone, your rampant video posts only show your ignorance on the subject. You clearly are not interested in credible sources or an unbiased view. I fail to see how we become "advocates of terrorism and murder" when we take the side with over 800 casualties, likely with half those being innocent women and children.
 
shiznit770 said:
Justone, your rampant video posts only show your ignorance on the subject. You clearly are not interested in credible sources or an unbiased view. I fail to see how we become "advocates of terrorism and murder" when we take the side with over 800 casualties, likely with half those being innocent women and children.
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You call videos rampant. You call them mine.

They are not mine.
They are real.
They are documents admitted in any court.
The reality shown is rampant.
It is not only ignorance of the subject you demonstrate, but also unwillingness to face the truth about you.

That has nothing to do you taking the side with over 800 casualties. Siding with the numbers submitted only by the heros of the video without any consideration is addressed in other parts of my post(s).

The video documentary is addressed to some other positions of yours,

- particulary:

“From about 16 they are considered to be in optimum physical and mental condition and they are at an age when they want to carry guns and feel powerful,” she said.

In Israel, all boys and girls are required to serve in the military once they turn 18, although most Arab-Israelis are exempt from this.'' -

though I did not see you personally in the list of supporters of terrorism and murder. I completly missed you. You have checked in, you are checked in.
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
The fallacy in your comment is that I never said that Israel is targeting babies...since they do not. The only ones targeting civilians are Hamas and the Palestinians. Therefore, your comment is irrelevant.
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And the word of the week is.......I-R-R-E-L-E-V-E-N-T.

I-R-R-E-L-E-V-E-N-T.

Say it with me, "I-R-R-E-L-E-V-E-N-T"

We don't know if they are or they aren't.

What we do know, is they don't give a **** who they kill.
 
justone said:
You call videos rampant. You call them mine.

They are not mine.
They are real.
They are documents admitted in any court.
The reality shown is rampant.
It is not only ignorance of the subject you demonstrate, but also unwillingness to face the truth about you.

That has nothing to do you taking the side with over 800 casualties. Siding with the numbers submitted only by the heros of the video without any consideration is addressed in other parts of my post(s).

The video documentary is addressed to some other positions of yours,

- particulary:

“From about 16 they are considered to be in optimum physical and mental condition and they are at an age when they want to carry guns and feel powerful,” she said.

In Israel, all boys and girls are required to serve in the military once they turn 18, although most Arab-Israelis are exempt from this.'' -

though I did not see you personally in the list of supporters of terrorism and murder. I completly missed you. You have checked in, you are checked in.
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And I'll add you to my list of blind propagandists who rely on youtube videos for their view-point.

Congratulations, you're the first and only one on my list! :congrats:
 
shiznit770 said:
And I'll add you to my list of blind propagandists who rely on youtube videos for their view-point.

Congratulations, you're the first and only one on my list! :congrats:
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You perfectly expose yourself.




I rely on what I see and thus I am blind?




I shouldn’t post documentaries MADE BY YOU, the ones you show to your children?

You are the blind propagandist who relies only on the statements of the child abusers, molesters, cannibals, the scum of the earth.

I will be posting these documentaries demonstrating you do to your own children and documentaries demonstrating, on each and every tread related to HAMAS so everyone can see your nature, can see and understand

who are children and males under 18 in the text
who are women in text
who are Palestinians Health Officials and how they care about health of Palestinian children
and health of our children

YouTube - Beslan: September, 2004
YouTube - Terror at Beslan
 
justone said:
You perfectly expose yourself.




I rely on what I see and thus I am blind?




I shouldn’t post documentaries MADE BY YOU, the ones you show to your children?

You are the blind propagandist who relies only on the statements of the child abusers, molesters, cannibals, the scum of the earth.

I will be posting these documentaries demonstrating you do to your own children and documentaries demonstrating, on each and every tread related to HAMAS so everyone can see your nature, can see and understand

who are children and males under 18 in the text
who are women in text
who are Palestinians Health Officials and how they care about health of Palestinian children
and health of our children
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Dude, wtf are you talking about? Think before you type. Your posts are nonsensical and extremely hostile. Get a grip, seriously. :whothere:
 
shiznit770 said:
Dude, wtf are you talking about? Think before you type. Your posts are nonsensical and extremely hostile. Get a grip, seriously. :whothere:
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Dude, wtf are you talking about? Think before you type. Your posts are nonsensical and extremely hostile. Get a grip, seriously. :whothere:
















Any ability to debate?
 
Billo_Really said:
What we do know, is they don't give a **** who they kill.
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But we do know this. We know this because Israel uses precision weapons whose only differentiating aspect from non-precision munitions is...precision. Now why be precise? Of course, to kill the intended target and reduce collateral damage.

We also know this because the Israeli's take pains to notify residents when they are preparing to attack their hoods. I don't think warring parties do this because it makes them feel good about themselves.
 
justone said:
Dude, wtf are you talking about? Think before you type. Your posts are nonsensical and extremely hostile. Get a grip, seriously. :whothere:

Any ability to debate?
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LOL, calling me a murderer and cannibal supporter is debating? I thought it was pure crazy. Forgive me, I concede, you are clearly the winner of this "debate".
 
shiznit770 said:
LOL, calling me a murderer and cannibal supporter is debating? I thought it was pure crazy. Forgive me, I concede, you are clearly the winner of this "debate".
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I am not to win, I am to expose your inhumane nature as well as inability to comprehend a quite simple text.
 
justone said:
I am not to win, I am to expose your inhumane nature as well as inability to comprehend a quite simple text.
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Ah, he's already analyzed you. He has studied your characteristics vigorously in the past 2 weeks he's read your posts and can logically conclude you are inhumane.

What great psychological therapy over the Internet! :roll:

Your inability to comprehend international law is where you lose in most of these debates.
 
Degreez said:
Ah, he's already analyzed you. He has studied your characteristics vigorously in the past 2 weeks he's read your posts and can logically conclude you are inhumane.

What great psychological therapy over the Internet! :roll:

Your inability to comprehend international law is where you lose in most of these debates.
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You can say this when you have nothing to say anymore for a number of posts. As ususal when the debate is over all what is left for you is little ad-home statements ''you'', ''you are'' your" , ''you lose'', ''you won'' - have any more of those exposing that you have nothing else to say on the subject?
 
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