Obama Insults Iranians

1069 · 01-01-09, 11:51 AM

Quote:

To Iranians, suggesting that Iran can be controlled as a Donkey, disparages of proud tradition of being the oldest nation in the Middle East, and a history of being one of the earliest civilized people's of the world. The relationship of give and take, among caring peoples, is totally ignored by Obama's Remarks that Iranians are nothing more than simple minded donkeys.

Majd illustrates Western ignorance of Iranian culture by the fact that many Westerners are upset because Iran has suggested that there was never a Holocost, and have hosted a Holocaust Deniers convention. Why would Iran deny that there was a Holocaust, when there is ample evidence that the Holocaust occurred with some 6 Million Jewish people lost their lives, and many other Jewish people suffered hardship and indignity?

This is a failure of Westerners to understand a deeply rooted tradition in Iran. Almost always, when an Iranian brings up a new subject or story, the speaker will say something translated to the effect, "This may be true, or not true. This may be real or not real....." and continue with the story.

Westerners have been taught since early childhood to carefully distinguis between facts and fiction. Culturally, any Westerner who speaks about a generally accepted fact, as if it is false, is regarded as a madman, who must be locked up, or at least totally ignored. Westerners in the 1400's used to think the world was flat, and anyone suggesting the World was round, was in real trouble.

In Iranian culture, Facts and fantasy are not so carefully separated in conversation and public discourse. Man cannot go to the Moon. Man can go to the Moon. Individual judgement is relied upon, more than public agreement to currently established facts, like the World is Round.

Another difference in Iranian culture, is a common practice of taking an extreme position, and sticking to the extreme position of a polemic perspective, and carry on a conversation supporting all the ways that might support the extreme polemic position.

Westerners have a strong, almost universal drive to be reasonable, in their conversations. Iranians have a drive to be fairly reasonable in their actions, but enjoy absurdities in conversation, dialogue and discourse. Particlulary an extreme position can be used to carry on public dialogue for periods of time.

All of this is understandable to me.
It is an insult to Iranians- they insult themselves- by assuming (correctly) that westerners ought to be able to understand this difference, yet at the same time stating that they themselves cannot be expected to understand the different ways of Westerners, and are there for deeply "insulted" by a comment that is not, on the face of it, insulting.

If they expect us to be capable of understanding their peculiarities of thought and speech and cultural customs, then surely they are capable of understanding ours.

Gladiator · 01-01-09, 11:57 AM

Iran is intersted in playing games, and getting respect.

Give Iran the Olymics. Find some way to give them the feeling that Iran is Number 1.

I presume Iran is giving Hamas the Katusha rockets. Katusha rockets are an example of responsible irony. The rockets can't really do anything, except irritate the Israelis, and diminish the pride of the Israelis.

The problem is the US Christians funding the massive development of previously Palestinian lands.

The US and Europe could pass laws making it illegal for donations to be made to fund the Jewish settlement of Palestinian lands. There are laws to outlaw donations to Terrorist. Why not pass laws to deal with the root of Terrorsim?

Palestinians have proved themselves good stewards of Jerusalem. The Palestinians turned over the key to the temple to the Christians. The Christians making donations to Settlements should get faith in the Palestinians to preserve the holy places.

Immigration to Israel should decline.

http://www.moia.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/..._alia_2004.pdf

"The number of new immigrants arriving in Israel in 2007 was 19,700 - a decline of 6 percent over last year, according to the Absorption Ministry end-of-the-year statistics released on Sunday.

This is the lowest number of immigrants since 1989, after the wave of immigration following the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Forecasts for 2008 do not show an increase in newcomers."

Immigration to Israel in 2007 down 6%, at its lowest since 1989 - Haaretz - Israel News

Maybe the numbers of immigrants to Israel should be more widely publicized, if in fact numbers are not increasing.

..

Gladiator · 01-01-09, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

All of this is understandable to me.
It is an insult to Iranians- they insult themselves- by assuming (correctly) that westerners ought to be able to understand this difference, yet at the same time stating that they themselves cannot be expected to understand the different ways of Westerners, and are there for deeply "insulted" by a comment that is not, on the face of it, insulting.

If they expect us to be capable of understanding their peculiarities of thought and speech and cultural customs, then surely they are capable of understanding ours.

The Westerners are the ones who are unhappy, for recent years. Iran is besting the Westerners, as I see it. So it is Westerners, who have to learn how to dance better with Iran. Westerners don't even understand the rules by which Iran plays. Absurdity drives Westerners nuts. How would you teach a Westerner to play, and break even, at a game of Absurdity?

..

DivineComedy · 01-01-09, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladiator

For the Iranian culture, ACTIONS are trusted to be reasonable, but words are meant to be absurd, but not to characterize actually contemplated Actions. Trust is intended to be understood to exist, in the Reasonableness of the actions, of Iranians.

..

Weird culture.

I don’t know why the Iranians would feel insulted by carrots from the Great Satan, and not insulted by support for the lukewarm “liberal” arts of ethnic cleansing by the universal values that the Obamanation democracy demands.

Obama’s articulated policy in 2002 was not to control Iran with carrots, but was to contain the donkey by hobbling (ignoring the ethnic cleansing of Shiites from self-determination in violation of Article One of the UN Charter until the Butcher of Baghdad died of natural causes).

"Iran is proceeding now in ways that were unimaginable until we invaded Iraq and basically did what they said, which is provide the Shia with the ability to do what they haven't been able to do in 1200 years, gain a position of dominance over the Sunni." (Democrat, Sen. KERRY, Obama supporter)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...talk-iran.html

1069 · 01-01-09, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Weird culture.

No weirder than many Asian or African cultures, which follow similar rules and are similarly confounding to westerners.

Yet still, for their own protection and self-preservation, they need to be savvy to the ways of the majority even as they seek to educate us about their different ways.

DivineComedy · 01-01-09, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

No weirder than many Asian or African cultures, which follow similar rules and are similarly confounding to westerners.

Yet still, for their own protection and self-preservation, they need to be savvy to the ways of the majority even as they seek to educate us about their different ways.

You are right. {I love oriental culture.}

Different states for different folks, but not if multiculturalism paints the strokes.

Gladiator · 01-02-09, 09:11 AM

Similarly, Magd points ut, the method of negotiatin by Iraninas, is to forece the adversary into a position, in which his logic becomes untennable, or illogical.

Katusha rockets are almost nearly harmless, but have engraged the Israelis.

So Israel is bombing the Gaza Strip, killing 400 Paelstinians, so far. Is Israel winning? What are the categories of evaluating winning? Losing?

Does Israel appear to be giving a measured response? How are the actions being judged by the Palestinians and other Arab or Islamic groups?

How is Israel doing at winning the hearts and minds of ther adversaries?

What are the next moves of the Iranian Puppeteers? What are Iran's options in the conflict?

Is the US CIA trying to funnel addicting opiates into Iran from Afghanistan?

Is Iran countering the CIA Drug Infiltration of Iran, with a counter by smuggling addictive drugs into Israel?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ence-gaza.html (Did Israels drug problem lead to violence in Gaza?)

..

Real Talk · 01-02-09, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

the majority

U should stop talking

Oftencold · 01-02-09, 10:01 AM

This basically says that Iran's culture promotes delusional thinking and lifelong juvenile behavior. (By Western, or as it is also known "Superior" standards.)

shiznit770 · 01-02-09, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1069

All of this is understandable to me.
It is an insult to Iranians- they insult themselves- by assuming (correctly) that westerners ought to be able to understand this difference, yet at the same time stating that they themselves cannot be expected to understand the different ways of Westerners, and are there for deeply "insulted" by a comment that is not, on the face of it, insulting.

If they expect us to be capable of understanding their peculiarities of thought and speech and cultural customs, then surely they are capable of understanding ours.

So, since we are the ignorant culture that chooses to judge Iran's rhetoric against our own, they should conform to us?

01-01-09, 11:57 AM	#12
Gladiator Verifier Join Date: Jun 2007 Last Seen: 03-13-10 03:57 AM Location: Your Back Yard Posts: 1,683 Thanks: 477 Thanked 163 Times in 133 Posts Gender:	Re: Obama Insults Iranians Iran is intersted in playing games, and getting respect. Give Iran the Olymics. Find some way to give them the feeling that Iran is Number 1. I presume Iran is giving Hamas the Katusha rockets. Katusha rockets are an example of responsible irony. The rockets can't really do anything, except irritate the Israelis, and diminish the pride of the Israelis. The problem is the US Christians funding the massive development of previously Palestinian lands. The US and Europe could pass laws making it illegal for donations to be made to fund the Jewish settlement of Palestinian lands. There are laws to outlaw donations to Terrorist. Why not pass laws to deal with the root of Terrorsim? Palestinians have proved themselves good stewards of Jerusalem. The Palestinians turned over the key to the temple to the Christians. The Christians making donations to Settlements should get faith in the Palestinians to preserve the holy places. Immigration to Israel should decline. http://www.moia.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/..._alia_2004.pdf "The number of new immigrants arriving in Israel in 2007 was 19,700 - a decline of 6 percent over last year, according to the Absorption Ministry end-of-the-year statistics released on Sunday. This is the lowest number of immigrants since 1989, after the wave of immigration following the fall of the Iron Curtain. Forecasts for 2008 do not show an increase in newcomers." Immigration to Israel in 2007 down 6%, at its lowest since 1989 - Haaretz - Israel News Maybe the numbers of immigrants to Israel should be more widely publicized, if in fact numbers are not increasing. ..
	__________________ _______________________________ How did Our Oil get under Their Sand? Last edited by Gladiator; 01-01-09 at 12:15 PM.

01-02-09, 09:11 AM	#17
Gladiator Verifier Join Date: Jun 2007 Last Seen: 03-13-10 03:57 AM Location: Your Back Yard Posts: 1,683 Thanks: 477 Thanked 163 Times in 133 Posts Gender:	Re: Obama Insults Iranians Similarly, Magd points ut, the method of negotiatin by Iraninas, is to forece the adversary into a position, in which his logic becomes untennable, or illogical. Katusha rockets are almost nearly harmless, but have engraged the Israelis. So Israel is bombing the Gaza Strip, killing 400 Paelstinians, so far. Is Israel winning? What are the categories of evaluating winning? Losing? Does Israel appear to be giving a measured response? How are the actions being judged by the Palestinians and other Arab or Islamic groups? How is Israel doing at winning the hearts and minds of ther adversaries? What are the next moves of the Iranian Puppeteers? What are Iran's options in the conflict? Is the US CIA trying to funnel addicting opiates into Iran from Afghanistan? Is Iran countering the CIA Drug Infiltration of Iran, with a counter by smuggling addictive drugs into Israel? http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ence-gaza.html (Did Israels drug problem lead to violence in Gaza?) ..
	__________________ _______________________________ How did Our Oil get under Their Sand? Last edited by Gladiator; 01-02-09 at 09:14 AM.

01-02-09, 10:01 AM	#19
Oftencold Vox Vocis of Angelus Join Date: Dec 2008 Last Seen: 03-11-10 03:23 AM Location: Yakutat, Alaska Posts: 3,464 Thanks: 1,006 Thanked 1,490 Times in 906 Posts Lean: Very Conservative Gender:	Re: Obama Insults Iranians This basically says that Iran's culture promotes delusional thinking and lifelong juvenile behavior. (By Western, or as it is also known "Superior" standards.)

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