Israeli planes violate Lebanon airspace

Jijala · 07-25-08, 10:31 AM

Press TV - Israeli planes violate Lebanon airspace

Quote:

Three Israel warplanes have violated Lebanon's airspace by flying over several cities in the country, the Lebanese army has announced.

"At least three enemy Israeli warplanes violated Lebanese airspace overnight and Thursday morning," according to a Lebanese army statement, the DPA reported.

"The planes flew over the Mediterranean off the coastal city of Sidon and over the capital and its suburbs," it added.

The army also said that other Israeli warplanes flew over the Rmeish town in south Lebanon and then headed north to Beirut, the Chouf Mountains, southeast of the capital, and Hermel in the eastern part of the country.

Israel has repeatedly violated Lebanon's airspace, since a ceasefire, declared based on the UN Security Council Resolution 1701, put an end to a 33-day war between Israel and Lebanon in summer 2006.

Your thoughts, how can we (as an international community) force Israel to respect law and order ?

donsutherland1 · 07-25-08, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Your thoughts, how can we (as an international community) force Israel to respect law and order ?

Israel has an inherent right to act in its self-defense. If the UN were enforcing the provisions of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which calls for, among other things, an end to arms supplies for the Hezbollah terrorist group and for Lebanon's compliance with the provisions of UN Security Council Resolution 1559, such flights would not be necessary. UN Sec. Res. 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias." In other words, Lebanon is obligated to disband and disarm Hezbollah.

That is not happening. Therefore, as Israel's security is threatened by Lebanon's non-compliance with its international obligations and the UN's failure to bring about Lebanon's compliance, Israel has little choice but to take such steps as are necessary to safeguard its security. In short, if Israel's overflights of Lebanon are to end, Lebanon must fulfill the terms of its own obligations, including the disbanding and disarming of Hezbollah. Israel, like any other sovereign state, cannot reasonably be expected to refrain from exercising its inherent right to safeguard its national security.

Volker · 07-25-08, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Press TV - Israeli planes violate Lebanon airspace

Your thoughts, how can we (as an international community) force Israel to respect law and order ?

The best way is too shoot them down. When Israeli air planes came close to German ships two times in the last two years, the German ships prepared to open fire. A French official said, Israeli air planes were only seconds away from being shut down in Lebanon at least in one situation. It is probable that the same IAF pilots have killed children before, it is not a lost, if they go to hell a little earlier. If Israelis want to learn it the hard way, lets do them the pleasure.

Jijala · 07-25-08, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsutherland1

Israel has an inherent right to act in its self-defense. If the UN were enforcing the provisions of UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which calls for, among other things, an end to arms supplies for the Hezbollah terrorist group and for Lebanon's compliance with the provisions of UN Security Council Resolution 1559, such flights would not be necessary. UN Sec. Res. 1559 calls for "the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias." In other words, Lebanon is obligated to disband and disarm Hezbollah.

That is not happening. Therefore, as Israel's security is threatened by Lebanon's non-compliance with its international obligations and the UN's failure to bring about Lebanon's compliance, Israel has little choice but to take such steps as are necessary to safeguard its security. In short, if Israel's overflights of Lebanon are to end, Lebanon must fulfill the terms of its own obligations, including the disbanding and disarming of Hezbollah. Israel, like any other sovereign state, cannot reasonably be expected to refrain from exercising its inherent right to safeguard its national security.

Self-Defense is one thing. Violating foreign nations airspace or carrying out bombing raids is aggression, not defense, however.

Why do you label Hezbollah as terrorist ? Afaik, only Israel and the Bush regime try to label them as such, and those two really have low credibility. Are you one of the 10% americans that still support Bush's policies and buy his twisted terminology ?

Volker · 07-25-08, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donsutherland1

Israel has an inherent right to act in its self-defense.

Israel can claim self-defense, when Lebanese air planes fly over their cities. It's not that a would pay much attention to Israeli complaints, I never did, but in this situation maybe they would have someting like a point.

shuamort · 07-25-08, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Self-Defense is one thing. Violating foreign nations airspace or carrying out bombing raids is aggression, not defense, however.

Why do you label Hezbollah as terrorist ? Afaik, only Israel and the Bush regime try to label them as such, and those two really have low credibility. Are you one of the 10% americans that still support Bush's policies and buy his twisted terminology ?

The countries below have officially listed Hezbollah in at least some part as a terrorist organization.

Australia The Hezbollah External Security Organization [170]
Canada The entire organization Hezbollah [171]
Israel The entire organization Hezbollah [172][173]
Netherlands The entire organization Hezbollah [174][175]
United Kingdom The Hezbollah External Security Organization [176]
United States The entire organization Hezbollah [177]

Jijala · 07-25-08, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuamort

The countries below have officially listed Hezbollah in at least some part as a terrorist organization.

Australia The Hezbollah External Security Organization [170]
Canada The entire organization Hezbollah [171]
Israel The entire organization Hezbollah [172][173]
Netherlands The entire organization Hezbollah [174][175]
United Kingdom The Hezbollah External Security Organization [176]
United States The entire organization Hezbollah [177]

Bush and his stooges as one might say. There is no more credibility in this labelling as there is to Iraq WMD claims. So please let's keep the discussion serious and factual.

shuamort · 07-25-08, 12:01 PM

You said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Afaik, only Israel and the Bush regime try to label them as such, and those two really have low credibility. Are you one of the 10% americans that still support Bush's policies and buy his twisted terminology ?

And I showed where other countries besides Israel and the US (not the Bush regime, but the country, since we're being factual) have labeled Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

Then you say:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Bush and his stooges as one might say.

And then follow up with this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

So please let's keep the discussion serious and factual.

If you want to have a serious and factual discussion, you have to show that you are going to accept objective facts and not follow up with your subjective rantings.

Jijala · 07-25-08, 12:09 PM

There is not one ounce of ranting in what i say. Bush and his stooges as well as Israel are well known now for years for making exagerated remarks about a strange and abstract muslim danger who all turned out to be bogus inventions for the sake of military expansion. Why should i see this labelling of Hezbollah as truthful ?

shuamort · 07-25-08, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

There is not one ounce of ranting in what i say. Bush and his stooges as well as Israel are well known now for years for making exagerated remarks about a strange and abstract muslim danger who all turned out to be bogus inventions for the sake of military expansion.

Ranting would be saying things like "Bush and his stooges" and the like. Don't get me wrong, I'm quite against the President and his policies especially in regards to foreign diplomacy, but the rhetoric doesn't aid in creating an honest and factual debate. If you want to say Bush and Mr X have said this about Israel and then show a link to what he's said, fine. That's good and honest debate and shows where the opinion derives from. Unfortunately, we're not getting that yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jijala

Why should i see this labelling of Hezbollah as truthful ?

I'm not completely sure if it is or isn't truthful and what the criteria are for measuring who is on or off. It could be capricious and suspect since my link to wikipedia (source to be taken with a grain of salt) said:
In 1999, Hezbollah was placed on the US State Department terrorism list. After Hezbollah's condemnation of the September 11, 2001 attacks on the USA, it was removed from the list, but it was later returned to the list.[178] In 2002, US State Department official Christopher Ross was cited as explaining that while "the Hezbollah party and some of its members carried out terrorist acts in the past", "the acts that it carried out against the Israeli forces in South Lebanon were not terrorist acts."[179]

I have feeling there are either a couple steps missing in there and I'm unaware of what the real rationale is (anyone) or it is a bit capricious in who is included in the list.