Proof Iran IS a threat! - Page 3

bhkad · 07-11-08, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Summerwind

Well then, is has been proven equally that USA and Israel shouldn't have nukes. I'm missing your point. And our VP and President and Republican Presidential candidate have been "ranting" themselves regarding Iran, so I see this as all things being equal; except Iran doesn't even have the capability and we do. It always real humorous (and sickening) when bullies try to claim victimization.

Iran is a cancerous threat to the freedoms we all enjoy but, apparently, take for granted.

They must and will be stopped.

One way or the other.

The world is coalescing against Iran.

It's time you faced that fact.

They are not going to be allowed to get nuclear weapons without a fight.

In this case it would be a case of live free or die.

Literally, if necessary.

independent_thinker2002 · 07-11-08, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Iran is a cancerous threat to the freedoms we all enjoy but, apparently, take for granted.

They must and will be stopped.

One way or the other.

The world is coalescing against Iran.

It's time you faced that fact.

They are not going to be allowed to get nuclear weapons without a fight.

In this case it would be a case of live free or die.

Literally, if necessary.

Which Amendment should we abolish to conquer them?

bhkad · 07-11-08, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Howl

Too bad we're too busy to do anything about it.

Keep thinking that.

bhkad · 07-11-08, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shuamort

There already is one. Well, unless you're Haliburton and its "subsidiary".

But I'm only saying that as a "muslim" and a "terrorist sympathizer" I'm sure.

Your deriding Vader reminds me of what it would be like if the USA and Israel began trading barbs in the press.

What good can come from it?

bhkad · 07-11-08, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Why wouldn't Iran abide to MAD? Why would a leader who engages in CvB analysis NOT follow MAD?

[...]

I'd still love to see your argument as to why Iran would use a missile as a delivery system. That outta be good if you try. We might even recommend it as a stand up routine.

Here's what Robert Spencer says about the subject.

Quote:

...based on the old Cold War principle of Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD). Both sides threatened each other with nuclear annihilation, and the threats canceled each other out. The Soviets would no more risk Moscow being wiped out than we would Washington.

But applying this principle to present-day Islamic jihad is not so easy. The Soviets did not inculcate into their cadres the idea enunciated by Maulana Inyadullah of al-Qaeda shortly after 9/11: “The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death.” This lust for death runs through the rhetoric of today’s jihadists, and goes all the way back in Islamic history to the Qur’an, in which Allah instructs Muhammad: “Say (O Muhammad): O ye who are Jews! If ye claim that ye are favoured of Allah apart from (all) mankind, then long for death if ye are truthful” (62:6). Will men who love death, who glorify suicide bombing and praise God for beheadings and massacres, fear the destruction of holy sites? It seems unlikely in the extreme — and that fact nullifies all the value this threat may have had as a deterrent. Nuke Mecca? Why bother? It wouldn’t work.

Others have argued, however, that the deterrent value of destroying Islamic holy sites would lie not in giving jihad terrorists pause, but in showing Islam itself to be false and thus removing the primary motivation of today’s jihad terrorists. If Allah is all-powerful and rewards those who believe in him while hating and punishing the disbelievers (the “vilest of creatures,” according to Qur’an 98:6), wouldn’t he protect his holy sites from these disbelievers?

However, Muslims have weathered such shocks to their system in the past...

Continued at link.

FrontPage Magazine

And this is from March of 2006, suggesting that depending on what the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad decided, nuclear weapons could be delivered in any number of ways and to guard against one way and not the others would be folly.

Quote:

Iran: Stealth Missile Successfully Test-Fired

Friday, March 31, 2006

TEHRAN, Iran — Iran successfully test-fired a missile that can avoid radar and hit several targets simultaneously using multiple warheads, the military said Friday.

Gen. Hossein Salami, the air force chief of the elite Revolutionary Guards, did not specify the missile's range, saying it depends on the weight of its warheads.

But state-run television described the weapon as "ballistic" — suggesting it's of comparable range to Iran's existing ballistic rocket, which can travel 1,250 miles and reach arch-foe Israel and U.S. bases in the Middle East.

"Today, a remarkable goal of the Islamic Republic of Iran's defense forces was realized with the successful test-firing of a new missile with greater technical and tactical capabilities than those previously produced," Salami said on state-run television.

It showed a clip of the launch of what it called the Fajr-3, with "fajr" meaning "victory" in Farsi.

"It can avoid anti-missile missiles and strike the target," Salami said.

He said the missile would carry a multiple warhead, and each warhead would be capable of hitting its target precisely.

In Washington, State Department spokesman Adam Ereli said the development demonstrates Iran's "very active and aggressive military program" that is worrisome to the world.

"I think Iran's military posture, military development effort, is of concern to the international community," Ereli said.

Israel also said it was concerned.

"And that concern is shared by many countries in the international community, about Iran's aggressive nuclear weapons program and her parallel efforts to develop delivery systems, both in the field of ballistic missiles and cruise missiles," said Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev.

"The combination of extremist jihadist ideology, together with nuclear weapons and delivery systems, is a combination that no one in the international community can be complacent about," he said.

Yossi Alpher, an Israeli consultant on the peace process, said the news "escalates the arms race between Iran and all those who are concerned about Iran's aggressive intentions and nuclear potential."

"Clearly it's escalation, and also an attempt by Iran to flex its muscles as it goes into a new phase of the diplomatic struggle with the U.N. Security Council," Alpher said.

Andy Oppenheimer, a weapons expert at Jane's Information Group, said the missile test could be an indication that Iran has MIRV capability. MIRV refers to multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles, which are intercontinental ballistic missiles with several warheads, each of which could be directed to a different target.

"From the description, it could be a MIRV. If you are saying that from a single missile, separate warheads can be independently targeted then yes, this is significant," he said.

"But we don't know how accurate the Iranians are able to make their missiles yet, and this is a crucial point," Oppenheimer said.

"If the missile is adaptable for nuclear warheads, then they are well on the way," he added. "But they have not made a nuclear warhead yet. The current estimates are it could take five years."

The existing rocket is the Shahab-3, which means "shooting star," and also is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

Israel and the United States have jointly developed the Arrow anti-ballistic missile system in response to the Shahab-3.

Iran launched an arms development program during its 1980-88 war with Iraq to compensate for a U.S. weapons embargo. Since 1992, Iran has produced its own tanks, armored personnel carriers, missiles and a fighter plane.

Last year, former Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani said Tehran had successfully tested a solid fuel motor for the Shahab-3, a technological breakthrough in Iran's military.

Salami said Friday the Iranian-made missile was test-fired as large military maneuvers began in the Persian Gulf and the Arabian Sea. The maneuvers are scheduled to last a week and will involve 17,000 Revolutionary Guards as well as boats, fighter jets and helicopter gunships.

The tests come amid growing concern over Iran's nuclear program. The United States and its allies believe Iran is seeking to develop nuclear weapons, but Tehran denies that, saying its program is for generating electricity.

The U.N. Security Council is demanding that Iran halt its uranium enrichment activities. But an Iranian envoy said its activities are "not reversible."

FOXNews.com - Iran: Stealth Missile Successfully Test-Fired - U.S. & World

And that doesn't even take into account the supersonic wave skimming missiles they have which could conceivably take out one of our carriers in the Gulf due to it's speed and stealth. You can't hit what you don't know is coming at you. And when you find out it's coming at you you can't hit it if you don't have enough time to gear up your defensive systems.

Nor does it address the fact that the USA nor any of our allies have ever had, in combat OR in practice, the occasion to defend against hundreds of missiles at once.

Quote:

Gen. Hossein Salami, the Revolutionary Guards air force commander, said Iran's war games this week — code-named "Noble Prophet" — "demonstrate our resolve and might against enemies who in recent weeks have threatened Iran with harsh language," state TV reported.

"Hundreds and maybe thousands of missiles are ready to be fired at specified targets," he said.

Iran missile test sends message to US, Israel - Yahoo! News

The implications of this are profound.

And you would yawn and act smug at the suggestion?

bhkad · 07-11-08, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I am Conservative.
I agreed with Summerwind.
Can you make a post without referencing Liberals or their Liberal "Agenda" please?

I agree with you sometimes, Bodhisattva, but Summerwind's positions are too often detestable to me.

I think Vader is giving some posters the benefit of the doubt when he calls them," Liberals."

Some of them may be actual Jihadists and their knowing supporters.

But it's impossible to know the truth. So, "Liberal" is the most damning identity that can be alleged in polite company.

But just as we can't prove who might be a real Jihadist unless they confess, neither can we know that Vader's assertions are off the mark unless those people prove they are or aren't.

CaptainCourtesy · 07-11-08, 03:07 AM

Moderator's Warning:

Obvious Child and Vader. Stop the personal attacks towards each other or their will be further consequences.

bhkad · 07-11-08, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by independent_thinker2002

Which Amendment should we abolish to conquer them?

For some we shouldn't be quite so ambitious. We might start with Reading Is Fundamental.

Read this.

Quote:

Rep. Sue Myrick's “Wake Up America” Agenda
(Please Note, this is Rep. Myrick's own agenda. This is not the agenda of the Congressional Anti-Terrorism Caucus)

1. Will call for a government investigation of all US military chaplains who were approved by Abdurahman Alamoudi.

2. Will call for a government investigation of all US prison chaplains who were approved by Abdurahman Alamoudi.

3. Will call for the Government Accounting Office (GAO) to investigate the selection process of Arabic translators in the FBI and DoD.

4. Will call for the Internal Revenue Service to investigate the Council on American-Islamic Relations’ (CAIR) 501(c)(3) non-profit status which restricts “lobbying on behalf of a foreign government”.

5. Introduce a bill to make the preaching, publication, or distribution of materials that call for the death of American citizens, attacks on the United States Government or Armed Forces, or the financing of the means and/or operations to accomplish these acts, acts of sedition and/or solicitation of treason.

Background/Media Pack Points 1-5

6. Will call on the Government Accountability Office to conduct an audit to verify the total sovereign wealth fund investment in the United States.

7. Will attempt to cancel scholarship student visa program with Saudi Arabia until they reform their textbooks.

8. Will introduce a bill to restrict R-1/R-2 religious visas for imams who come from countries that do not allow reciprocal visits by non-Muslim clergy.

9. Will introduce a bill to cancel contracts to train Saudi police and other security forces in US Counterterrorism tactics until the Saudi’s certify the prosecution of Al Qaeda financiers, like Yasin al-Kadi, and the detention of repatriated Guantanamo terrorists that keep being released into the general population after being “rehabilitated”.

10. Will introduce or sponsor a bill to block the sale of sensitive military munitions, especially Joint Direct Attack Munitions (JDAMs), to Saudi Arabia.

Background/Media Pack Points 6-10

Get updates on Rep. Myrick's Agenda by signing up for her eNewsletter here.

New Page 1

Bodhisattva · 07-11-08, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad
I agree with you sometimes, Bodhisattva, but Summerwind's positions are too often detestable to me.

Agreeing with me is wise...

Quote:

I think Vader is giving some posters the benefit of the doubt when he calls them," Liberals." Some of them may be actual Jihadists and their knowing supporters.

Perhaps... with the Internet, one can never be absolutely sure. But I feel that in most cases, 99.99%... the term is just thrown about to be petty and piss people off.

Quote:

But it's impossible to know the truth. So, "Liberal" is the most damning identity that can be alleged in polite company.

But Liberals are not always wrong. My wife is Liberal... while I am decidedly Conservative. They just have a different take and hope for the best regardless of the danger. That is not always good, but it is good to think about the good that can be had. Sometimes focusing on the negative creates what you fear most.

Quote:

But just as we can't prove who might be a real Jihadist unless they confess, neither can we know that Vader's assertions are off the mark unless those people prove they are or aren't.

How does one "prove" that they aren't what one claims they are?

I have been called many things by extremists on this forum that are inaccurate... how do I defend myself? I tell the truth and the assholes that be don't care. Not you or he, but them...

I agree with you and Vadar on many things... I just think that there is a more constructive way to go about informing people.

bhkad · 07-11-08, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Agreeing with me is wise...

Except when it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

But Liberals are not always wrong. My wife is Liberal... while I am decidedly Conservative. They just have a different take and hope for the best regardless of the danger. That is not always good, but it is good to think about the good that can be had. Sometimes focusing on the negative creates what you fear most.

And because it IS the internet we are talking about and many things can be seen accurately from varying points of view, so can the terms, Liberal and Conservative, take on different meanings depending on our orientation.

Osama bin Laden might be said to be a Conservative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

How does one "prove" that they aren't what one claims they are?

You have never seen the film, "The Crying Game"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I have been called many things by extremists on this forum that are inaccurate... how do I defend myself? I tell the truth and the assholes that be don't care. Not you or he, but them...

I seem to recall getting the feeling some time ago that you shifted your political orientation here and began arguing as a Bush supporting Conservative. Am I mistaken? What will one find with a little research into your earlier posts?

That matter/question aside, you can only keep track of the doubters. And I mean actually keep their names and what they said and a copy of their posts and the link in a file. That way, when the truth emerges and they are convinced that you are what you say you are you can remind them how they were previously certain and now are proved wrong. That will go a long way in eroding confidence in their future assertions and will dissuade anyone looking to mess with you again unless they are willing to wager their public credibility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

I agree with you and Vadar on many things... I just think that there is a more constructive way to go about informing people.

Have you ever seen the Spanish-born, Las Vegas entertainer, (singer, actress and one of the world's greatest Flamenco guitarists), Charo, ("cuchi-cuchi") on TV?

Anyway, she has lived in the USA since the mid-1960's and she speaks English with such an accent that you'd think she just got off the boat.

That's just the way she communicates.

Vader is a fine poster and a fine American. He communicates the way he communicates. He asks no one to grant him any favors or cut him any slack. Nor does he, from what I can tell, spare anyone his frank opinions. He speaks his mind and takes and delivers the lumps that we all do as part of the game we play here.