Joby

I have a problem with this perception of Arafat. It always seemed to me that he loved being on top of the PLO more than Palestine itslef, and that the only thing worse than the Israelis taking the homeland would be its return without him in charge.

I understand why Palestinians love him, my govt professor (a pal/lebanese immigrant) adored him. She talked about how he was a "Palestinian Symbol" and how him being greeted by heads-of-state sorta kinda made up for the lack of a soccer team. But seriously, he talked smack then ran away. Compare his defense of Palestinian immigrants from Israel in the 1980s to that of Hezbullah, and you can see my point.

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“U.S. presidential candidate Barack Obama talks about 16 months. That, we think, would be the right timeframe for a withdrawal, with the possibility of slight changes.”

Jenin

Arafat left lebanon under agreement brokered by the international community that no harm would befall the palestinian refugees in lebanon. Upon his exit, Israel expanded it's war in lebanon and completely captured half of it, it's troops being checked in the north by the syrians. Arafat leaves, The phalange, armed allied trained and guided by Sharon enter sabra and shatilla and rape, pillage and murder for two days and two nights as the israeli army surrounds the camps and illuminates the night sky so the phalange murderers can continue the slaughter.

So the palestinians in lebanon thought, if arafat was here, he would have saved us. Ofcourse arafat continued his struggle from africa, far from palestine and denounced the crimes and ranted how he had been tricked, complained about the broken promises, and assured the broken palestinian diaspora that his men would have protected them. Immense pressure pushed him out of lebanon, where he once ruled beirut, just as immense pressure pushed him out of Jordan. No one wants to reap the wrath of the Israeli Airforce for the palestinian struggle.

During the battle of Karamah in Jordan, every palestinian faction fled while arafat stayed and fought with his men. They, along with the Jordanian army suffered staggering casualties but held their ground. To imply that arafat is a coward would contradict this historic fact.

He practically signed away all rights to historic palestine during oslo. He recognized Israel, accepted the lack of an explicit ban on settlement construction and failed to brig us statehood. Barak and Nitenyahoo played him. When arafat woke up to his weak diplomatic caution, it was too late, Jerusalem had been geographically torn from the west bank, Israel was at it's strongest, and he was policing the streets of a few palestinian cities on behalf of Israel.

Check the following article: In a Ruined Country

I strongly disagree with many things in it, and the author easily adds pages of unsubstantiated rumors, painting an unreasonable picture of Arafat...but the article still has some interesting details, and you would enjoy reading it I am sure...

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"A child becomes a man when he knows what came before him" -- Anonymous
"Conquerors, my son, consider as true history only what they themselves have fabricated"
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%...ut%201948.html

Lerxst

Such an easy call to make when you have never had to worry about any realistic state sponsored oppression or being barred from your own homeland. One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter...yadda yadda yadda.

You don't know Jenin, I doubt many here really do. Rather than vomit forth your ignorant stream of bile, you might simply shut your suck and try to imagine what one day in the life of a Palestinian in Israel or Gaza or the WB might be like. There are many sides to each situation. Israel, America, Syria, Lebanon, the Palestinians, the Russians, the Brits, etc....all are guilty of terrorist acts throughout modern history. Some weren't so sly about it, and some didn't have the luxury of dictating history or manipulating how things got reported. There is ugliness everywhere, and all hands have some blood on them.

So don't sit around posting like a uneducated knee jerk reactionary. Why don't you take your nuclear physicist degree or whatever it is you claim you have and look at the whole of the problem. For the love of god there is death and suffering on both sides of this conflict. The policies of Israel are not lily white nor are they necessarily fair or blind to ethnicity or heritage. I'm not blaming Israel for everything nor am I blaming the Palestinians.

I don't know Jenin's posting history here but I don't see this thread as indicative of him being a terrorist sympathizer. Not here anyway.

If anything I guess I should start with blaming Great Britain and the rest of Europe.

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Obama/Biden in 2008!

DivineComedy

"Rather than vomit forth your ignorant stream of bile"

"don't know Jenin's posting history here?"

"you might simply shut your suck"

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“[59.14] They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified towns or from behind walls; their fighting between them is severe, you may think them as one body, and their hearts are disunited; that is because they are a people who have no sense.”

Yeah, a wall and a border patrol will protect us. {sound of laughter}

Lerxst

Of course I could really have fun with your posts if I chose to cut snipets out and make comments, but I don't have to do that. The forum has enough fun with your commentary as it is. Bad day at home DC?

DivineComedy

Other than having old Wine on my PCLinusOS, not really; I just couldn't resist. It was like a "Hamas' Stand" screaming, do it, do it, "Terrorism is a relative term," type of thing.

independent_thinker2002

Isn't it disrespectful to Islam to call it "motherland"? Don't you mean "fatherland"? Or is there a secret plan to cover the motherland with a burka? "Motherland" isn't consistent with the misogynistic tenets of Islam.

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==]:{o

Volker

In Arab, Farsi or Turkish culture the term "motherland" is more common. In German culture the term "fatherland" is more common, "motherland" has a different meaning in German language. The Russian culture knows both terms, I do prefer the term "motherland" in Russian language.

It is only inconsistent with your opinion.

Jenin

It is not disrespectful in Islam to call it "motherland". Motherhood in general in Islam is something honored and is high in importance. Motherland means your blood and roots are from this land. Most practicing Muslim women view their belief and adherence to Islam as liberating rather than misogynist in nature or tenet.


........


This is me, in a part of my motherland, at the PA government headquarters in the Muqata district of Ramallah, Palestine. Behind me and to my right are the Arafat grave and memorial. Mahmoud Abbas and the rest of the executive Palestinian government assemble and work out of the offices in the very back. These offices were where arafat was effectively jailed for the last couple years of his life by the Israeli seige of the PA government. The bombed out buildings have been rebuilt and the memorial has finally been finished. It was a quiet evening at the Muqata.

shuamort

Thanks for sharing all of this. I'm not sure what your nationality is now, so I ask if border crossings for Americans are as lengthy as what you experienced?