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Turkey's Erdogan lambasts US over support for Syrian Kurds

PoS said:
No thanks. I dont believe in supporting terrorists to fight terrorists. That makes us no better than them. Two wrongs dont make a right.
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The only war crime that they've committed that could remotely be described as terrorism is when they expel alleged ISIS supporters from captured territory, and even that seems more like a pragmatic counterterrorist attempt to prevent bombings and massacres than it is to terrorize civilians they disagree with. Only someone who has no sense of perspective can say that ISIS and the YPG are morally equivalent.
 
MadLib said:
The only war crime that they've committed that could remotely be described as terrorism is when they expel alleged ISIS supporters from captured territory, and even that seems more like a pragmatic counterterrorist attempt to prevent bombings and massacres than it is to terrorize civilians they disagree with. Only someone who has no sense of perspective can say that ISIS and the YPG are morally equivalent.
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Youre either a terrorist or youre not, anyone downplaying and trying to defend any kind of actions like this just because it suits you pretty much tells me that they have no morals to speak of. Its like molesting a child because other people did it too.
 
PoS said:
Youre either a terrorist or youre not, anyone downplaying and trying to defend any kind of actions like this just because it suits you pretty much tells me that they have no morals to speak of. Its like molesting a child because other people did it too.
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So all bad things are equally bad? A heavily decentralized militia occasionally letting teenagers join and kicking out potential fifth columnists is just as bad as forcing teenage girls into sex slavery, slaughtering POWs like sheep and gunning down innocent theatergoers in a city thousands of miles away?
 
The U.S. military-industrial complex supports PKK war-criminals. Turkish military-industrial complex supports ISIS terrorists. They should both be tried as rogue organizations of their respective countries, by their respective countries, for the supporting and funding of terrorist organizations.
 
PoS said:
Youre either a terrorist or youre not, anyone downplaying and trying to defend any kind of actions like this just because it suits you pretty much tells me that they have no morals to speak of. Its like molesting a child because other people did it too.
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Menachem Begin was a terrorist. Then he won the Nobel Peace Prize. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. Then HE won the Nobel Peace Prize. Now, Abdullah Ocalan, the jailed leader of the PKK, wants peace, but Turkey's leader, Tayyip Erdogan, made no bones about the fact that he wants to move Turkey from a parliamentary system to one with a powerful presidential system with him, naturally, as president. One tool he's using to accomplish that is to pick a fight with the Kurds:

One of the most prominent elements of the Machiavellian game that will be played until the Turks go to the voting booth will be the threat of terror and chaos.

Fear of chaos was the top factor that enabled the AKP to recover in the Nov. 1 elections the parliamentary majority it had lost in June. It's the same threat that prompted Sunni conservative voters to restore the AKP to power Nov. 1. An important pertinent signal came from Islamist daily Yeni Akit, an ardent Erdogan supporter, in a Jan. 28 article titled “Either presidency or chaos.”

Leaving aside the Islamic State (IS) terror that has not yet become a permanent feature, the only element that keeps the chaos and terror threat alive is the war that was launched July 24 against the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK).

Reaching an agreement with the Kurdish movement could mean loss of nationalist votes that the government wants in a referendum or elections. That could also mean more votes for the Kurdish Peoples' Democratic Party (HDP). But in an early election, Erdogan’s goal is to push both the opposition Nationalist Action Party and the HDP to below the 10% election threshold. If that is secured, then all the seats they would have won will be accrued to the next-strongest party — the AKP. That of course would guarantee enough seats for the AKP to get a constitutional amendment.

Read more: Erdogan's Kurdish gamble - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
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Sometimes it just isn't that simple.
 
MadLib said:
So all bad things are equally bad? A heavily decentralized militia occasionally letting teenagers join and kicking out potential fifth columnists is just as bad as forcing teenage girls into sex slavery, slaughtering POWs like sheep and gunning down innocent theatergoers in a city thousands of miles away?
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You just dont seem to get it. Ive already explained that one is either a terrorist or not. There is no such thing as a "good" terrorist. If you are against terrorism then dont support it. If you support any kind of terrorism then youre a sympathizer. I dont see how that cant be any clearer to you. IF that's what youre into, well, thats you. I find it reprehensible and I'm sure most everyone else who thinks of themselves as decent human beings does too.
 
PoS said:
You just dont seem to get it. Ive already explained that one is either a terrorist or not. There is no such thing as a "good" terrorist. If you are against terrorism then dont support it. If you support any kind of terrorism then youre a sympathizer. I dont see how that cant be any clearer to you. IF that's what youre into, well, thats you. I find it reprehensible and I'm sure most everyone else who thinks of themselves as decent human beings does too.
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Except the YPG aren't terrorists. The only rational definition of terrorism is the use of violence against civilians in an attempt to terrorize them for political gain, and the YPG falls far short of that, even if they have committed war crimes. Calling the YPG "terrorists" is part of a decades-long effort by dictators and their partisans to poison political discourse so that any armed faction they don't like is ipso facto a terrorist group.

Furthermore, the YPG offer the best chance at a future for Syria that doesn't consist of either repressive dictatorship or totalitarian theocracy - they're libertarians - so I suspect your negative opinion of them is based more on knee-jerk opposition to American foreign policy than it is to an actual analysis of what the YPG does and what their goals are.
 
MadLib said:
Except the YPG aren't terrorists. The only rational definition of terrorism is the use of violence against civilians in an attempt to terrorize them for political gain, and the YPG falls far short of that, even if they have committed war crimes. Calling the YPG "terrorists" is part of a decades-long effort by dictators and their partisans to poison political discourse so that any armed faction they don't like is ipso facto a terrorist group.

Furthermore, the YPG offer the best chance at a future for Syria that doesn't consist of either repressive dictatorship or totalitarian theocracy - they're libertarians - so I suspect your negative opinion of them is based more on knee-jerk opposition to American foreign policy than it is to an actual analysis of what the YPG does and what their goals are.
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They are war criminals and terrorists You want to support them, hey thats you. Since you support war criminals I guess you dont have any problem with the Nazis and the war crimes they did as well. Noted.
 
PoS said:
You just dont seem to get it. Ive already explained that one is either a terrorist or not. There is no such thing as a "good" terrorist.
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Yeah, we get it. You don't think people can change and become statesmen, as Nelson Mandela did. Good thing you don't run the planet.
 
PoS said:
No thanks. I dont believe in supporting terrorists to fight terrorists. That makes us no better than them. Two wrongs dont make a right.
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I believed it was right to support one murderous tyranny, the Soviet Union, when it was fighting another, Nazi Germany. What was it Churchill said? Something about having a conversation with the devil if it would help defeat Hitler? So I disagree with your prissy schoolmarmish "Two wrongs don't make a right".
 
Medusa said:
PKK is not terrorist ?
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Why is it necessary to display a portrait of someone complicit in the first modern genocide, that of the Armenians?
 
Sweden said:
Why is it necessary to display a portrait of someone complicit in the first modern genocide, that of the Armenians?
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I've done a lot of reading about the Shameful Act, and it's clear that Atatürk played no role in the Armenian genocide. He was a middle-ranking army officer stationed in Gallipoli throughout the period of the Armenian massacres, i.e. hundreds of kilometres away from where the killings were taking place and with no policy-making or command over anyone involved. He may well be accused of being complicit in down-playing the recognition of the genocide when he came to power 7 years later, but then, so too were many other Turkish and foreign leaders, but complicit in the genocide? No. I think you're trolling with that statement.
 
Sweden said:
Why is it necessary to display a portrait of someone complicit in the first modern genocide, that of the Armenians?
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Feeing no argument in the current thread forces you to jump in another one you feel strong.

There is no Genocide at all, there are a few documents that prove it; on the other hand, there are a few people with tears telling stories.

There was some treachery, and legal actions against it.
 
treehouse said:
Feeing no argument in the current thread forces you to jump in another one you feel strong.

There is no Genocide at all, there are a few documents that prove it; on the other hand, there are a few people with tears telling stories.
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You are very wrong, but turning this thread into a discussion on the Armenian genocide is derailing of a major order. If you want to fight this battle there are a few threads that have discussed this subject in recent years. Go necro one of those, or create a new one.
 
Andalublue said:
You are very wrong, but turning this thread into a discussion on the Armenian genocide is derailing of a major order. If you want to fight this battle there are a few threads that have discussed this subject in recent years. Go necro one of those, or create a new one.
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Your suggestion of opening or joining the new one comes after your judge ''You are wrong'' seems you are the one who wants a discussion about fake accusation.


Read the term Genocide, and then get the steps that equal to Genocide, then read the Nazi G-Period, and then have the court verdicts and methodology; after all these, read before, during, after war actions, courts in ottoman, and British.

I know the list is long for you who read one book and get ready to judge any historical event in seconds.
 
treehouse said:
Your suggestion of opening or joining the new one comes after your judge ''You are wrong'' seems you are the one who wants a discussion about fake accusation.


Read the term Genocide, and then get the steps that equal to Genocide, then read the Nazi G-Period, and then have the court verdicts and methodology; after all these, read before, during, after war actions, courts in ottoman, and British.

I know the list is long for you who read one book and get ready to judge any historical event in seconds.
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I suspect I've read more about it than you have, but I'm not going to participate in derailing this thread.
 
PoS said:
They are war criminals and terrorists You want to support them, hey thats you. Since you support war criminals I guess you dont have any problem with the Nazis and the war crimes they did as well. Noted.
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Would you like some Godwin's law with that moral blackmail? Jesus.
 
MadLib said:
Would you like some Godwin's law with that moral blackmail? Jesus.
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If it quacks like a duck...

And no one is blackmailing you. Youre free to choose your morals... or not.
 
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