French Revenge[W:20]

Re: French Revenge

Beaudreaux said:

I don't have a beef with you. Seriously, I don't.

This topic is very serious to me, however. I'm a disabled vet and have lost way too many friends to enemy fire, so I understand exactly what the price will be to do what we must. It's sad and depressing to think that we will have to go back and this time expand to other areas of the world.

The only thing I have a beef with, is our President who announced today from Turkey that he will do nothing differently than he has done so far, which has produced nothing appreciable. That worries me.

Look, I like reading your posts. You have a unique insight many times that I respect and look forward to reading. I don't always agree with what you say or your perspective, but you do make me think and question my own opinions when we don't agree, and what I like most about your posts, you make me think even if we do agree. So, no beef with you.

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I wonder why you believe only American blood can turn the tide against ISIS. The Kurds have been doing quite well and we need to do more to get other to join them. You are wrong about air power too. We are in the process of denying ISIS the means and equipment to conduct war and are doing it with out any American targets. Denying ISIS American targets is a important because it limits their recruitment of new fighters. We don't want a repeat of the war in Iraq which drew 1000's of NEW jihadist fighters like flies to honey. It is not fair to our soldiers to ask them to repeat that performance when we were losing as many as 140 men a month. Surely you don't want that either.

Re: French Revenge

Beaudreaux said:

Air power alone has never won and cannot win

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Except it has. Air power alone gained us victory in Libya, Bosnia, and Kosovo. You either need an enemy that is simply unwilling to take an aerial beating by a superpower (the Serb forces in the 1990s) or a competent ground ally (the Libyan opposition), and we need the latter for this kind of campaign. In Iraq there has been substantial progress in this regard, despite the corruption and politicking by both the Kurds and Baghdad, and the main reason that ISIS exists in Syria right now is because the factions most able to take ISIS on are too busy fighting each other. All things considered, Obama has actually been pretty bold, directly arming Syrian rebel groups despite domestic and Russian opposition, and having the USAF fight on behalf of the YPG above Turkish objections.

Re: French Revenge

MadLib said:

Except it has. Air power alone gained us victory in Libya, Bosnia, and Kosovo. You either need an enemy that is simply unwilling to take an aerial beating by a superpower (the Serb forces in the 1990s) or a competent ground ally (the Libyan opposition), and we need the latter for this kind of campaign. In Iraq there has been substantial progress in this regard, despite the corruption and politicking by both the Kurds and Baghdad, and the main reason that ISIS exists in Syria right now is because the factions most able to take ISIS on are too busy fighting each other. All things considered, Obama has actually been pretty bold, directly arming Syrian rebel groups despite domestic and Russian opposition, and having the USAF fight on behalf of the YPG above Turkish objections.

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That all sounds great, except it's just plain wrong. I was in the Balkans, on the ground. In Libya we had a huge ground force from the locals plus special forces, on the ground. The ground force in Iraq and Syria are dysfunctional and incompetent and the President wouldn't even allow CCT's to be inserted to call in air strikes.

You obviously have been reading the sources that are parroting the President, but anyone that's actually been in combat and studied warfare, will tell you that the information you are being given is WRONG.

Air power alone, cannot win a war.

Re: French Revenge

Beaudreaux said:

That all sounds great, except it's just plain wrong. I was in the Balkans, on the ground.

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Were you there as a part of a peacekeeping force, or did you take part in offensives against the Serbs on the ground?

In Libya we had a huge ground force from the locals plus special forces, on the ground.

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We've been using special forces against ISIS for a while. I know that they are technically ground forces, but they do not constitute an invasion by regular troops that "boots on the ground" is meant to imply.

The ground force in Iraq and Syria are dysfunctional and incompetent and the President wouldn't even allow CCT's to be inserted to call in air strikes.

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I only somewhat disagree with your first point here: the new Iraqi prime minister has been working hard to reform the Iraqi military, and the Kurds were able to pull together to liberate Sinjar and al-Hawl last week. As for the second, those weren't used in Libya.

You obviously have been reading the sources that are parroting the President

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:lol: I actually haven't. Since I discovered the Syrian Civil War subreddit in March, I've browsed it for hours every day, where live updates about the war come in mostly through tweets by individual journalists, and where Western media as a whole makes up only a small fraction of the content (and where pro-Obama articles are virtually nonexistent). It was through the subreddit that I was able to see how much of a force multiplier air power is to this fight. One of my favorite pieces of evidence to use when debating people who say that the air war has been ineffective is a verified PKK fighter who defended Kobane during ISIS' brutal assault on the city saying that the Kurds would still be besieged if it weren't for our contribution. We could be doing more, and I have a lot of problems with how Obama has handled the Middle East, but our year-long bombing campaign against ISIS has been no mean feat.

Re: French Revenge

Beaudreaux said:

That all sounds great, except it's just plain wrong. I was in the Balkans, on the ground. In Libya we had a huge ground force from the locals plus special forces, on the ground. The ground force in Iraq and Syria are dysfunctional and incompetent and the President wouldn't even allow CCT's to be inserted to call in air strikes.

You obviously have been reading the sources that are parroting the President, but anyone that's actually been in combat and studied warfare, will tell you that the information you are being given is WRONG.

Air power alone, cannot win a war.

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Beaudreaux, once again, it doesn't matter if you were there. Air power alone can win a war. History has proved this time and time again. I admire you for your service, but it has no relevance here.