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ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia

Dittohead not!

Dittohead not!

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[h=1]ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia[/h]
Early this year, Islamic State forces showed a powerful new side to their murderous military operation by knocking out five of the Iraq Army’s M1A1 Abrams tanks with anti-tank guided missiles and shooting down six of the army’s helicopters with a light anti-aircraft gun and rocket launchers while damaging 60 others.
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Seems they've graduated from assault rifles and grenade launchers to heavier weapons.

And there is no shortage of people willing to sell them more.

A second war in Iraq/Syria seems inevitable. Let's do it right this time around.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia[/h]



Seems they've graduated from assault rifles and grenade launchers to heavier weapons.

And there is no shortage of people willing to sell them more.

A second war in Iraq/Syria seems inevitable. Let's do it right this time around.
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Mornin' DH. :2wave: Yeah I have it up here too. ;)

Plus now ISIS just took another Iraqi Base, couple days ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/206336-isis-weapons-and-they-come-4.html#post1063876346
 
MMC said:
Mornin' DH. :2wave: Yeah I have it up here too. ;)

Plus now ISIS just took another Iraqi Base, couple days ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/war-terror/206336-isis-weapons-and-they-come-4.html#post1063876346
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They are winning the war just now.

It will take an all out effort by the US and its allies all over the world, including in the Middle East (if indeed we actually have any allies there) to wipe this evil off the face of the globe. A half hearted war funded on the national credit card and supported sort of by other nations, you know, like the war against Iraq, isn't going to cut it.
 
Dittohead not! said:
[h=1]ISIS Delivers ‘Shock and Awe’ with Arms from U.S., China, and Russia[/h]

Seems they've graduated from assault rifles and grenade launchers to heavier weapons.

And there is no shortage of people willing to sell them more.

A second war in Iraq/Syria seems inevitable. Let's do it right this time around.
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Yep! Doing it right means getting our European allies to do the lifting this time. It was France and Germany working with Russia that made Iraq2 necessary and expensive, while doing nothing of help in Afghanistan. Yep. It is their neighborhood and their problem. Help them, but don't do it ourselves.
 
we should train even more "rebels" and arm them to the teeth. otherwise, the group of terrorists which comes next might not have enough US weapons to fight the US with.
 
Helix said:
we should train even more "rebels" and arm them to the teeth. otherwise, the group of terrorists which comes next might not have enough US weapons to fight the US with.
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Let them fight the Arabs and Europeans and Turks. If those countries don't see that it is their neighborhood, it is their problem. We can help them even massively, if need be. But it is not our war. Do not make it so.
 
Helix said:
we should train even more "rebels" and arm them to the teeth. otherwise, the group of terrorists which comes next might not have enough US weapons to fight the US with.
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Oh, yes, arming the rebels has worked so well for us before!
 
joG said:
Let them fight the Arabs and Europeans and Turks. If those countries don't see that it is their neighborhood, it is their problem. We can help them even massively, if need be. But it is not our war. Do not make it so.
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i agree completely. we are responsible for our region, not theirs. the regional powers there need to be the ones fighting IS.
 
Carleen said:
What is the right way?
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an all out effort, along with our allies, to wipe ISIS out entirely.

and not start a half way undeclared war financed on the national MasterCard, like we did before.
 
Dittohead not! said:
They are winning the war just now.

It will take an all out effort by the US and its allies all over the world, including in the Middle East (if indeed we actually have any allies there) to wipe this evil off the face of the globe. A half hearted war funded on the national credit card and supported sort of by other nations, you know, like the war against Iraq, isn't going to cut it.
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Why do you think that is.....despite whatever difficulties exist?
 
MMC said:
Why do you think that is.....despite whatever difficulties exist?
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Because the way we went about deposing Saddam Hussain turned out to be a disaster. The way we tried to fight Communism in Vietnam was the same. If we try the same methods against ISIS, we'll get the same results.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Because the way we went about deposing Saddam Hussain turned out to be a disaster. The way we tried to fight Communism in Vietnam was the same. If we try the same methods against ISIS, we'll get the same results.
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So then, I take it you don't agree with BO's strategy which comes from the left and all that Micro Managing, huh?

When did you think a group of Mercs, (albeit Terrorist fighters), were to be treated like any Nation State?
 
MMC said:
So then, I take it you don't agree with BO's strategy which comes from the left and all that Micro Managing, huh?

When did you think a group of Mercs, (albeit Terrorist fighters), were to be treated like any Nation State?
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1. I have my doubts about Obama's strategy. I do think that getting international support is a good first step, however.

2. They want to be a nation state. Let's treat them like one, declare war on them and wipe them out before they do become one.
 
Dittohead not! said:
1. I have my doubts about Obama's strategy. I do think that getting international support is a good first step, however.

2. They want to be a nation state. Let's treat them like one, declare war on them and wipe them out before they do become one.
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Yeah getting others to pay for it is a good idea......but with the way BO is doing things it will cost 40 Billion a year.

Well I am all for wiping them out.....even the Netherlands is letting their Bikers go and fight with the Kurds. I figured we could pitch in with the Hell's Angels and the Outlaws. Which they wont have any trouble retuning some video footage to the Invisible Shiek and what happens to his fighters or those who join him and his Caliphate.

Even the Cosa Nostra, Russian Mob, Triads, and the Yakuza should all be in on this.

It should be Open hunting season by All on ISIS and those who fund them.


Oh UHOO.....Qatar. Your ass is next! ;)
 
MMC said:
Yeah getting others to pay for it is a good idea......but with the way BO is doing things it will cost 40 Billion a year.

Well I am all for wiping them out.....even the Netherlands is letting their Bikers go and fight with the Kurds. I figured we could pitch in with the Hell's Angels and the Outlaws. Which they wont have any trouble retuning some video footage to the Invisible Shiek and what happens to his fighters or those who join him and his Caliphate.

Even the Cosa Nostra, Russian Mob, Triads, and the Yakuza should all be in on this.

It should be Open hunting season by All on ISIS and those who fund them.


Oh UHOO.....Qatar. Your ass is next! ;)
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Now, if we can get the Bloods, the Crips, the F 14 and the like to join the fray....

Maybe they'll all just wipe each other out.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Now, if we can get the Bloods, the Crips, the F 14 and the like to join the fray....

Maybe they'll all just wipe each other out.
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I would be willing to give Amnesty to death row inmates and those in for life. Freedom and Liberty.....with what they do. Just has to be done over there.....where if they survive. Then they will be free......just over there.

See.....I am merciful. :2razz:
 
Dittohead not! said:
And there is no shortage of people willing to sell them more.
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What need is there to buy them? They have been doing fine for years now on captured arms and equipment. And this is feeding itself.

When ISIS first moved from Syria to Iraq, it primarily used weapons captured from the Syrian military. And now that they have been capturing Iraqi bases, they are shipping the weapons captured there back to Syria. This is why you are primarily seeing weapons from the US (captured from Iraq), as well as China and Russia (captured from Syria). It is also why you are not seeing many weapons from the other large International Arms Dealer Nations in play.

Neither Iraq nor Syria have large investments in French, German, Italian, Spanish, UK, or Israeli weapons. The why should be obvious, they are not buying weapons, they are capturing them. Of the top 10 Arms Exporting nations in the world (Russia, US, China, in that order), until recently we were only seeing arms from Russia and China until recently. The introduction of US made arms was also the time that ISIS made it's push into Iraq, where such weapons could be captured.

But we are not seeing anything of note from the other 7 of the top 10 arms exporting nations. If these weapons were truly being bought, then they would be coming from them.
 
Dittohead not! said:
They are winning the war just now.

It will take an all out effort by the US and its allies all over the world, including in the Middle East (if indeed we actually have any allies there) to wipe this evil off the face of the globe....
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How do we know that? We are pretty much just getting news that is presented by the US government, and that seems to be quite limited. I suspect that we are probably doing a lot more damage to ISIS than we are being lead to believe.

Seems to me that this is a fairly small group fighting a somewhat conventional war. The biggest reason they seem to be winning is because the Iraq military runs off and hides. that doesn't mean that ISIS is formidable to people who are actually willing to fight them.

Even if we had a world wide effort fighting them full out, we could never kill them all, not in a hundred years, they will just change their tactics (to strictly terrorism) and blend into the population, making them that much harder to defeat. Seems to me that we are best off doing what we are doing. As long as they keep acting like a military and not covert terrorists, it's probably easier to identify them and kill them.

I suspect that Obama may have his "mission accomplished" moment just before the election (but probably not as I am usually wrong about everything), but if we allow this to stretch out for years, we are much more likely to be able to kill more extremist and crazies. the more we kill, I figure the better off we are. And if we can keep them bogged down in Syrian and Iraq, we don't have to worry that much about having to kill them here.

Is it possible to eliminate "crazy" from the gene pool? Personally, I am more than happy that some of our crazies from the US have gone over there to fight with ISIS. Much rather be able to drop bombs on them over there, than to have them cutting off heads here.
 
imagep said:
How do we know that? We are pretty much just getting news that is presented by the US government, and that seems to be quite limited. I suspect that we are probably doing a lot more damage to ISIS than we are being lead to believe.
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Wow, are you really that ignorant?

The majority of the news from the region is not coming form the "US Government". Hell, it is not even coming from "US Sources" or "US Wire Services".

The majority comes from 2 sources. Al-Jazeera is the largest, based in Qatar. The other is Reuters, based in England.

Very little actually comes from the "United States". You are confusing the Government's reaction to actions with being the originator of the information about the actions.
 
Oozlefinch said:
Wow, are you really that ignorant?

The majority of the news from the region is not coming form the "US Government". Hell, it is not even coming from "US Sources" or "US Wire Services".

The majority comes from 2 sources. is the largest, based in Qatar. The other is Reuters, based in England.

Very little actually comes from the "United States". You are confusing the Government's reaction to actions with being the originator of the information about the actions.
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Maybe I am that dumb, or maybe not...

During the 1991 Persian Gulf War both of those news sources reported that Israel was successfully destroying scuds with the Patriot missile system. Later we found out that it wasn't true, the US and Israel just wanted Iraq to believe that. So guess where those news agencies were getting their info from?

Mostly what I am seeing is a day by day total of how many targets were attacked. You don't think that the US government is the source for that info? Or that the statements made by US Generals is information provided by Al-Jazeera? How would they know how many targets we attacked, or what those targets were?
 
I really don't know why the US government would want us to think the situation in Iraq is worse than it actually is. It would seem to me that the motivation would be to soft pedal the defeats and make it seem as if things were better than they actually are.

Am I wrong about that?
 
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