quantumechanic
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2011
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I've seen quite a lot of arguments here regarding this issue. Seeing as it has an objective answer, I'd like to clarify it once and for all for future reference.
"Jew" refers to two mutually exclusive, distinct terms:
1) A member of the Jewish people.
2) A member of the Jewish religion.
I realize that when most people say "Jew" they think they're referring to a widely-accepted definition of a single term, but remember, they're really referring to one of two distinct terms. Granted, these terms overlap (most members of the Jewish people are also Jewish by religion), but they are still distinct and when using the word "Jewish" you are sometimes referring specifically to one and not the other. "French" is a good illustration of this point as it refers both to French citizens and to members of the French people (who are not necessarily citizens of France). You can be a member of the French people with Estonian citizenship or a an Armenian citizen of France. Similarily, a Bedouin who'd convert to Judaism would be a Bedouin Jew (ethnically\racially a Bedouin, religiously a Jew) and a Jew who'd convert to Christianity would be a Christian Jew (ethnically a Jew, religiously a Christian).
To become a member of the Jewish people, one must be born into the ethnic group, much like the Albanian, French, Slovenian, Armenian or Estonian people. However, anyone can become a member of the Jewish religion by conversion.
I've seen people claim Israel is a religious state, arguing that it even calls itself a "Jewish state".
While Israel is, in fact, a Jewish state, the reference here is to the Jewish ethnic group, not the religion. In point of fact, when Ben-Gurion declared Israeli independence he made a speech making many references to Israel being the land of the Jewish people and made not one mention of it being the country of the Jewish religion. In fact, there are many Jewish citizens of Israel who aren't even Jews by religion (I, for one, am a Jewish Israeli atheist).
I've also seen people claim that Israel is a racist country because it's Jewish (ethnically). Israel is the land of the Jews in much the same way Hungary is the land of the Hungarian people, France is the land of the French people or Armenia is the land of the Armenian people. Incidentally, note that all three referenced nation states (and many more) also include a "right of return" granting citizenship to members of their respective ethnic groups who wish to settle in their country, so Israel is far from unique in that respect. Regardless, if Israel is racist because it is a nation state, so is every other single nation state in the world including France and Germany, for example.
"Jew" refers to two mutually exclusive, distinct terms:
1) A member of the Jewish people.
2) A member of the Jewish religion.
I realize that when most people say "Jew" they think they're referring to a widely-accepted definition of a single term, but remember, they're really referring to one of two distinct terms. Granted, these terms overlap (most members of the Jewish people are also Jewish by religion), but they are still distinct and when using the word "Jewish" you are sometimes referring specifically to one and not the other. "French" is a good illustration of this point as it refers both to French citizens and to members of the French people (who are not necessarily citizens of France). You can be a member of the French people with Estonian citizenship or a an Armenian citizen of France. Similarily, a Bedouin who'd convert to Judaism would be a Bedouin Jew (ethnically\racially a Bedouin, religiously a Jew) and a Jew who'd convert to Christianity would be a Christian Jew (ethnically a Jew, religiously a Christian).
To become a member of the Jewish people, one must be born into the ethnic group, much like the Albanian, French, Slovenian, Armenian or Estonian people. However, anyone can become a member of the Jewish religion by conversion.
I've seen people claim Israel is a religious state, arguing that it even calls itself a "Jewish state".
While Israel is, in fact, a Jewish state, the reference here is to the Jewish ethnic group, not the religion. In point of fact, when Ben-Gurion declared Israeli independence he made a speech making many references to Israel being the land of the Jewish people and made not one mention of it being the country of the Jewish religion. In fact, there are many Jewish citizens of Israel who aren't even Jews by religion (I, for one, am a Jewish Israeli atheist).
I've also seen people claim that Israel is a racist country because it's Jewish (ethnically). Israel is the land of the Jews in much the same way Hungary is the land of the Hungarian people, France is the land of the French people or Armenia is the land of the Armenian people. Incidentally, note that all three referenced nation states (and many more) also include a "right of return" granting citizenship to members of their respective ethnic groups who wish to settle in their country, so Israel is far from unique in that respect. Regardless, if Israel is racist because it is a nation state, so is every other single nation state in the world including France and Germany, for example.
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Yup. Stay on topic. Or else.
