Thread: Tumour' of Israel will soon be destroyed: Ahmadinejad

Originally Posted by ecofarm

Is that the last time or this time?

I was wondering how long until this was another "mistranslation".

LOLZ. This was the original time Ahmadinejad was accused of saying that Israel "must be wiped off the map." In OP he stated no such thing.

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

LOLZ. This was the original time Ahmadinejad was accused of saying that Israel "must be wiped off the map." In OP he stated no such thing.

So, what do you make of this:

"The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumour," he said.

"The nations of the region will soon finish off the usurper Zionists in the Palestinian land.... A new Middle East will definitely be formed. With the grace of God and help of the nations, in the new Middle East there will be no trace of the Americans and Zionists," he said...

Demonstrators held up Palestinian flags and pictures of Khomeini's successor as Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and banners reading "Death to Israel" and "Death to America."...

Ahmadinejad, in his speech, claimed that "Zionists" triggered World Wars I and II, and had "taken control over world affairs since the moment they became dominant over the US government."

Is that mistranslated? What about the holocaust denial, also mistranslation?

Originally Posted by ecofarm

So, what do you make of this:





Is that mistranslated? What about the holocaust denial, also mistranslation?

Threatening language yes, but when I said in the OP he stated no such thing, I meant that he did not state word for word that Israel must be wiped off the map and I proved you to be incorrect in that that assumption.

I never stated that what was said in the OP was mistranslated or that the Holocause denial was mistranslated.

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

Threatening language yes, but when I said in the OP he stated no such thing, I meant that he did not state word for word that Israel must be wiped off the map and I proved you to be incorrect in that that assumption.

Wrong, I never assumed that was a word for word exactly perfect translation including cultural cues and traditional overtures.. But I think it gathers the gist of it - and I think he's basically said it again.

I never stated that what was said in the OP was mistranslated or that the Holocause denial was mistranslated.

And do you find his rhetoric in any way inappropriate?

Originally Posted by ecofarm

Wrong, I never assumed that was a word for word exactly perfect translation including cultural cues and traditional overtures.. But I think it gathers the gist of it.



And do you find his rhetoric in any way inappropriate?

I find it more than inappropriate, I find it foolish and ignorant as not only is it hurting relations between Israel and Iran, but such language is also playing into the hands of those in the US and Israel who want to go to war with Iran.

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

I find it more than inappropriate, I find it foolish and ignorant as not only is it hurting relations between Israel and Iran, but such language is also playing into the hands of those in the US and Israel who want to go to war with Iran.

Then why split hairs over cultural innuendo?

"The Zionist regime and the Zionists are a cancerous tumour," he said. "The nations of the region will soon finish off the usurper Zionists in the Palestinian land.... A new Middle East will definitely be formed. With the grace of God and help of the nations, in the new Middle East there will be no trace of the Americans and Zionists," he said.

That's close enough to "wipe off the map" for me.

Precisely ecofarm. Which is why I started a string to that effect. (see #1 and #2)
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle...ap-speech.html (The Infamous Ahmadinejad "Wiped Off the Map" speech)
That important reference string was, alas, closed for other reasons.
Mr Invisible apparently hasn't "researched", or even Wiki-ed, this issue, rather picked up the false gauntlet anti-Israelers parrot regularly....
That is, Because he didn't say "wiped" exactly, it's become a straw man for those wishing to obscure what Is his intent.
And of course the "wiped" translation Originated with the Iranian New Agency (IRNA) and was on a'jad's Presidential website as well.
It was then picked up, not originated, by others.

Friday wasn't much better.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said confronting Israel is an effort to "protect the dignity of all human beings."

"The existence of the Zionist regime is an insult to all humanity," Ahmadinejad said. He was addressing worshippers at Tehran University after nationwide pro-Palestinian rallies, an annual event marking Quds (Jerusalem) Day on the last Friday of the holy month of Ramadan...

Ahmadinejad called Israel "a corrupt, anti-human organized minority group standing up to all divine values."

"Today, confronting the existence of the fabricated Zionist regime is in fact protecting the rights and dignity of all human beings," said Ahmadinejad, with a black and white scarf many Palestinians wear around his neck.

Demonstrators in Tehran set U.S. and Israeli flags on fire and chanted "Death to the U.S." and "Death to Israel" during their pro-Palestinian rally...

Tensions between Iran and Israel have intensified since 2005, when Ahmadinejad said in a speech that Israel will one day be "wiped off the map." The Iranian president has also described the Holocaust, when 6 million Jews were killed by German Nazis and their collaborators during World War II, as a "myth."

Iran: Israel's existence 'insult to all humanity' - Yahoo! News


Does anyone, at this point, think that the claim of "but he didn't say 'wiped off the map'" is worth anything? I mean, really, who thinks that rhetoric allows grey area on this?

Attempting to prove, at this point, that the 'wiped off the map' was a mistranslation is POINTLESS. Look at the other stuff he has said!

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

US intelligence shows no sign of Iran making nuclear weapons (U.S. still believes Iran not on verge of nuclear weapon | Reuters). In addition to this, American, Israeli, and European intelligence shows that "Tehran does not have a bomb, has not decided to build one, and is probably years away from having a deliverable nuclear warhead." (Special Report: Intel shows Iran nuclear threat not imminent | Reuters).

That is a distortion of what is being written. The first article references the NIE report which made the conclusion that Iran was not pursuing a nuclear weapons program because of their decision to halt delivery system and warhead development for such a bomb. Meanwhile they have continued to raise Uranium enrichment far past what is required for any necessary research or power generation (past 20%). Which is the reason why the US and its intelligence agencies have continued to lobby against an Iranian nuclear program because they believe it is inevitably tied towards a pursuit of nuclear weapons. Whether that takes form first as a breakout capacity is speculative. This press release is also a specific reaction to rumors that there was a new NIE report that was being circulated that echoed what some media outlets had been reporting which was that Iran had resumed research on warhead design.

A line from your article ""We assess Iran is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons, in part by developing various nuclear capabilities that better position it to produce such weapons, should it choose to do so. We do not know, however, if Iran will eventually decide to build nuclear weapons." Is more or less the point. The problem has been mischaracterized. The issue is that we are fast approaching a point where Iranian facilities will become too diffuse and too heavily fueled for countries like Israel to be able to strike effectively, while the US is losing time to make an impact. However there is only one reason to enrich all the way up to 20% and that's if you plan on going towards 98%.

The IAEA probes confirmed most of these suspicions, and even reported rumors on Iran using its ballistic missile program as a means to revamp its warhead research. IAEA has serious concerns as Iran boosts nuclear work | Reuters

This is an effort by the US to restrain Israel. There is almost no-one who believes that Iran doesn't at least want breakout capacity for a bomb.

Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible

That was actually never said.(Israeli Minister Agrees Ahmadinejad Never Said Israel 'Must Be Wiped Off the Map' - NYTimes.com) (Now They Tell Us: Iran Didn't Actually Threaten to Wipe Israel Off the Map | FAIR Blog) (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middl...ed-off-the-map.)

I think at this point its relatively irrelevant. The point of the 'wipe off the map' quote is to illustrate a narrative eminating from Ahmadinejad and the central government. There are so many other quotes and statements that the narrative is pretty legitimately reinforced.