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The greatest plot hole in Star Wars, thanks to George Lucas

Renae

Renae

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This was inspired by discussions with my son about Star Wars.

The real failure of George Lucas, was as we all know the horrible Pre-Quals, but he introduces two things that undermine the entire series from The Phantom Menace through The Force Awakens.

1. Midichlorians.
According to Qui-Gonn Jinn, the midichlorian's are the key to a force user. Obi-Wan remarks on the readings from Anakin's blood test that he has a higher count then even "Master Yoda".

Most folks agree that giving a scientific explanation for force users was stupid as it removed much of the mystery of the Force and of course sounded really idiotic.

2. Clones
In "Attack of the Clones" we see in the SW universe that biological sciences are extremely advanced. You can take a person, modify them at the base levels for behavior and other characteristics.
That's a huge problem in and of itself, you could say, just clone Anakin 500 times and you have a small arm of high powered force users. That is obvious. However, what if you took both ideas to their logical conclusion?

According to SW canon, midichlorians are the source of the force, they have the bio science to create tailored life... so why don't they just design super midichlorian beings whose behavior is modified like the Clones in AoTC? Imagine, a group of super force users with no individual will. That would be an unstoppable army. Or you could conceivably alter your OWN genetic code to pump out the midichlorian's and thus, become a super Sith or Jedi.

Lucas was right to give up SW, the man is a moron.
 
Just to clarify something - Midichlorians were never intended to be a pre-cursor or cause of the force, but rather to be a result (or indicator) of someone who is connected with the force. It was never explained in such a way and in that, I agree it was a mistake. But it also explains your second point, you can't design someone with Midichlorians - the person would need to be connected to the force and then, you could detect midichlorians as a result.
 
Renae said:
Lucas was right to give up SW, the man is a moron.
Click to expand...
You have a 20 minute window to edit posts. You can still edit your post and maintain the bare essence. Keep just this line, the rest is unnecessary.
 
Natan said:
You have a 20 minute window to edit posts. You can still edit your post and maintain the bare essence. Keep just this line, the rest is unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Yes well, as that is a definitive statement, I felt the need to explain myself.
 
MrT said:
Just to clarify something - Midichlorians were never intended to be a pre-cursor or cause of the force, but rather to be a result (or indicator) of someone who is connected with the force. It was never explained in such a way and in that, I agree it was a mistake. But it also explains your second point, you can't design someone with Midichlorians - the person would need to be connected to the force and then, you could detect midichlorians as a result.
Click to expand...

Then just clone Anakin, and take out the whiney bitch gene and you win.
 
Or clone giant amounts of Jar Jar Binks and drop them off by bucket loads on planets that don't go along, and use a sith mindtrick on the whole planet to get them to vote whatever it is you want.
 
I'm pretty sure we're all ignoring midichlorians. Let's just go with that.
 
Renae said:
This was inspired by discussions with my son about Star Wars.

The real failure of George Lucas, was as we all know the horrible Pre-Quals, but he introduces two things that undermine the entire series from The Phantom Menace through The Force Awakens.

1. Midichlorians.
According to Qui-Gonn Jinn, the midichlorian's are the key to a force user. Obi-Wan remarks on the readings from Anakin's blood test that he has a higher count then even "Master Yoda".

Most folks agree that giving a scientific explanation for force users was stupid as it removed much of the mystery of the Force and of course sounded really idiotic.

2. Clones
In "Attack of the Clones" we see in the SW universe that biological sciences are extremely advanced. You can take a person, modify them at the base levels for behavior and other characteristics.
That's a huge problem in and of itself, you could say, just clone Anakin 500 times and you have a small arm of high powered force users. That is obvious. However, what if you took both ideas to their logical conclusion?

According to SW canon, midichlorians are the source of the force, they have the bio science to create tailored life... so why don't they just design super midichlorian beings whose behavior is modified like the Clones in AoTC? Imagine, a group of super force users with no individual will. That would be an unstoppable army. Or you could conceivably alter your OWN genetic code to pump out the midichlorian's and thus, become a super Sith or Jedi.

Lucas was right to give up SW, the man is a moron.
Click to expand...

A plot hole is an illogical spot in a story or a part of a story which contradicts itself.

But writing a story idea that's stupid doesn't mean it's a plot hole.

Star Wars Plot Hole: Leia's mother, Padme, died during childbirth - bu Leia claims to remember her. Now, on this I always assumed it was a step-mother figure she was recalling. To keep her origins a secret they had to give her a false history which included a mother a la The Truman Show.

Now - ignoring Midochlorians after they were mentioned would be a plot hole. But they don't genuinely matter beyond decisions by the Council.

And for all intents and purposes - Midochlorians merely meant that someone was easier to train per the force. Nothing more or less.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
A plot hole is an illogical spot in a story or a part of a story which contradicts itself.
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In fiction, a plot hole or plothole is a logical inconsistency within a story.[1] Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole
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Actually,, cloning a small number of Anakin derivatives would be a lot more logical. Same as riding the eagles in Lord of the Rings straight to Mount Doom. That would be a plot hole.

Aunt Spiker said:
Star Wars Plot Hole: Leia's mother, Padme, died during childbirth - bu Leia claims to remember her.
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I doubt that is a plot hole, sounds more like an actual mistake. Just like having Leia kiss Luke, I believe Lucas claims he knew in advance they were siblings but if you ask me and some other people he just made up the script as the movies went along and only had a general outline at the beginning.
 
Natan said:
You have a 20 minute window to edit posts. You can still edit your post and maintain the bare essence. Keep just this line, the rest is unnecessary.
Click to expand...

You do realize that you only ever had Star Wars to begin with because Lucas thought of it, and made it....right? It was a significant achievement based upon popularity and income alone.

A little respect, please.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
A little respect, please.
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I'm not a fan of Star Wars in the first place, my brother is. I don't see why I should be grateful for even IV, V and VI. If you end up with incestuous stuff in your script because you make it up as you go, you deserve some scorn.
 
Natan said:
Actually,, cloning a small number of Anakin derivatives would be a lot more logical. Same as riding the eagles in Lord of the Rings straight to Mount Doom. That would be a plot hole.
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Why does that seem more formidable, to you?

Clones were by far inferior to their original. They only real boost they gave was that they didn't need to be fed or housed in comfort like human counterparts. They were cheap. Interchangeable. Cannon fodder. If they were cloned based on Anakin they would have just been robotic-like versions of Anakin. *shrug* It wouldn't have improved them to the point of being invincible or a superior fighting force.

They would have just brought a different set of weaknesses and strengths (if any difference at all) and they would have been studied based on that and defeated in their own way, if any different at all.

And yet again - not a plot hole. Just like my curiosity about the Imperial Walkers - why not just give them wheels and make them tanks? They were tall, imbalanced, slow, cumbersome.

Gotta be careful with the concept of a plot hole - because then just any stupid idea that readers and watchers don't like can be demoted to one on a whim.

I doubt that is a plot hole, sounds more like an actual mistake. Just like having Leia kiss Luke, I believe Lucas claims he knew in advance they were siblings but if you ask me and some other people he just made up the script as the movies went along and only had a general outline at the beginning.
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If they rode Eagles to Mt Doom they'd encounter a whole host of other obstacles and still have to touch down to deal with earth-bound events. The only reason why people assume it would be easier is because the story wasn't written sky-based and he didn't explore all those challenges. And it would have in fact put them in the direct path of the Fellbeasts (creatures that the Nazgul flew).
 
I dont get all of this Jar Jar Binks hate, that was one of the more memorable characters and I did not think that the plotlines suffered more than usual. Maybe there was not enough actions scenes with him in them, maybe that is why people get upset.
 
Natan said:
Only by design. Boba was an unaltered version of Jango.
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The reason why they were altered is because unaltered clones retained free will, etc. They had to alter them in order to make them obedient, etc.

Anakin became Darth Vadar because of his unique life events. He wasn't born on the Dark Side. He turned to the Dark Side. It was part of his life. It's fallacy to assume a perfect clone of him would be bad like he became. In fact, just the opposite, a perfect clone would develop from infancy and take on their own unique life and identity based on their upbringing - and free will.

Thus the reasons why they didn't bother making an Army of Boba Fetts is the reason why they didn't waste equal time making an Army of Darth Vadars.

It doesn't work that way.

Might as well just have an army of unique people - training them to fight united together. The issues with that is, well, the whole reason behind wanting to have clones instead of people.

Desired clone traits: cheap, replaceable, mindless cannon fodder.
 
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The reason the prequel trilogy sucked is that they were written by a person who hadn't actually watched the original trilogy in several decades. This is also the reason for numerous plot holes.
 
the only real problem that i had with the prequels was the CGI. the model-based special effects in the first three films looked a lot better than that. parts of the CGI films looked almost cartoonish.

plotwise, they were ok. i mean, ****, it's never going to be as cool as it was when i was eight and watching Empire at the theater. i'm still going to see the new film, though.
 
Renae said:
This was inspired by discussions with my son about Star Wars.

Lucas was right to give up SW, the man is a moron.
Click to expand...

Yet, after seeing the new Star Wars movie.. I thought ok.. hrm this plot looks all so familiar.
Snoke and Kylo Ren --- Emperor and Vader.
Luke on a planet that's a wasteland - daughter on a planet that's a wasteland.
deathstar - bigger deathstar.
make the death star vulnerable by infiltrating it and taking down the shields, done by obiwan - make the death star vulnerable by infiltrating it and taking down the shields, done by han and Chewbacca.
destroy deathstar by flying down a trench on the outer surface and hitting it in a vulnerable spot with xwings and ywings - destroy bigger deathstar by flying down a trench on the outer surface and hitting it in a vulnerable spot with xwings and ywings
secret map that is key for the rebels hidden with a droid - secret map that is key for the rebels hidden with a droid.
reclusive hermit jedi obiwan - reclusive hermit jedi luke.

I could go on but to me for all the Disney / Abrams cutting themselves off from Lucas and doing their own thing they sure did basically just repeat the same story of the first star wars.
 
SocialD said:
Yet, after seeing the new Star Wars movie.. I thought ok.. hrm this plot looks all so familiar.
Snoke and Kylo Ren --- Emperor and Vader.
Luke on a planet that's a wasteland - daughter on a planet that's a wasteland.
deathstar - bigger deathstar.
make the death star vulnerable by infiltrating it and taking down the shields, done by obiwan - make the death star vulnerable by infiltrating it and taking down the shields, done by han and Chewbacca.
destroy deathstar by flying down a trench on the outer surface and hitting it in a vulnerable spot with xwings and ywings - destroy bigger deathstar by flying down a trench on the outer surface and hitting it in a vulnerable spot with xwings and ywings
secret map that is key for the rebels hidden with a droid - secret map that is key for the rebels hidden with a droid.
reclusive hermit jedi obiwan - reclusive hermit jedi luke.

I could go on but to me for all the Disney / Abrams cutting themselves off from Lucas and doing their own thing they sure did basically just repeat the same story of the first star wars.
Click to expand...

Abrahms is a master of repackaging the work of others.

Jar jar Binks. That's all i got to say about lucas.
 
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