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Thread: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

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    How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    I have a question for all of you anti-drug people how is it possible to bust a drug dealer unless you catch him red-handed and in the act without using a term called entrapment?

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC23 View Post
    I have a question for all of you anti-drug people how is it possible to bust a drug dealer unless you catch him red-handed and in the act without using a term called entrapment?
    As long as the idea to commit the crime didn't come from a government agent and the government agent didn't pursuade the individual to do the crime that they were not already prepared and willing to commit before interaction with the government agent then it is not entrapment.

    If law enforcement are in contact with an informant who goes in and buys drugs from a person, that is not entrapment. You see, in this scenario, government agents didn't give the dealer drugs to sell. The informant just provided the opportunity to commit the crime, not the motivation and willingness to do so.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Yes they did because the narc is a government agent and if they request that the person sell them drugs that is entrapment...That is really the most basic form of entrapment if it isn't then what exactly is entrapment...The same could be said if they are tracking the persons phone calls and text messages. and it doesn't have to be a government agent in order for it to be entrapment Police officers are essentially government agents, and if they are working for the government then they are a government "agent"...maybe not in the technical sense that you are thinking of but in a literal sense. Yes they did provide the "willingness" maybe not to commit the crime in other scenarios that do not involve government agents, but if an agent is requesting drugs from a dealer then they are providing the "willingness" because if the government agent never requested the drugs in the frist place there would be no "willingness" to begin with that they arrested them for.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC23 View Post
    Yes they did because the narc is a government agent and if they request that the person sell them drugs that is entrapment...That is really the most basic form of entrapment if it isn't then what exactly is entrapment...The same could be said if they are tracking the persons phone calls and text messages. and it doesn't have to be a government agent in order for it to be entrapment Police officers are essentially government agents, and if they are working for the government then they are a government "agent"...maybe not in the technical sense that you are thinking of but in a literal sense. Yes they did provide the "willingness" maybe not to commit the crime in other scenarios that do not involve government agents, but if an agent is requesting drugs from a dealer then they are providing the "willingness" because if the government agent never requested the drugs in the frist place there would be no "willingness" to begin with that they arrested them for.
    Don't be ridiculous. If you're NOT selling drugs, and I go up to you and ask to buy crack, your answer will be "no I don't sell drugs". You will only sell me drugs if that is something you're willing and able to do already. That isn't entrapment. ENTRAPMENT is when you put someone in a position where they are unreasonably pressured to commit a crime, or presented with an unreasonable and unproportional temptation to do so, or where the law enforcement agency is running both ends of the deal (ie supply and demand).

    Apparently you are operating on your own personal definition of entrapment, not the legal definition.
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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC23 View Post
    Yes they did because the narc is a government agent and if they request that the person sell them drugs that is entrapment...That is really the most basic form of entrapment if it isn't then what exactly is entrapment...The same could be said if they are tracking the persons phone calls and text messages. and it doesn't have to be a government agent in order for it to be entrapment Police officers are essentially government agents, and if they are working for the government then they are a government "agent"...maybe not in the technical sense that you are thinking of but in a literal sense. Yes they did provide the "willingness" maybe not to commit the crime in other scenarios that do not involve government agents, but if an agent is requesting drugs from a dealer then they are providing the "willingness" because if the government agent never requested the drugs in the frist place there would be no "willingness" to begin with that they arrested them for.
    Wow.. your reading way too into the term "government agent". Yes a police officer is a government agent.

    Umm... If they go to buy drugs, and the suspect pulls drugs out of whatever place they store it, and then they pull out their scale (both the scale and the drugs were NOT provided by the government) then they only provided the OPPORTUNITY.. not the WILLINGNESS to commit the crime.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit

    That is the legal definition they may have commited the crime with someone else but not that particular crime that they busted them for there is no way to bust a criminal without using entrapment, because each and everytime they sell drugs it is considered a crime selling drugs in general is not just one big crime...so technically they wouldn't have been likely to commit the crime if they knew that the person was a police officer and there would be no crime committed or a crime to be prosecuted.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC23 View Post
    In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit

    That is the legal definition they may have commited the crime with someone else but not that particular crime that they busted them for there is no way to bust a criminal without using entrapment, because each and everytime they sell drugs it is considered a crime selling drugs in general is not just one big crime...so technically they wouldn't have been likely to commit the crime if they knew that the person was a police officer and there would be no crime committed or a crime to be prosecuted.
    Here is the legal definition along with the guidelines...

    ENTRAPMENT
    A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case.

    However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity.

    On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty.

    In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred:

    - First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime.

    - Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime.

    - And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him.


    Legal Definition of 'Entrapment'

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    Yes but perhaps that would have been the last deal that they would have made...they did not have the willingness to commit the crime if it wasn't for the police officer.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    So breaking it down...

    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewC23 View Post
    In criminal law, entrapment is constituted by a law enforcement agent inducing a person to commit an offense that the person would otherwise have been unlikely to commit...they may have commited the crime with someone else but not... if they knew that the person was a police officer...
    Therefore, the courts recognize that these offenders cannot claim entrapment, because they engage in the behavior with non-government agents.

    Simplified Example of Non-Entrapment: John Doe gets arrested for minor possession and says, "I'll give you my dealer to get out of these charges." John Doe buys dope for the cops a few times, along with other supporting evidence, and then the dealer gets arrested. No entrapment, the dealer chose to continue his dealings with a previous customer. Who yes, was a government agent, but the courts historically say "TS" for the dealer.

    Simplified Example of Entrapment: Undercover government agent goes to Don Joe, a legitimate storeowner, befriends him and asks Don Joe to sell drugs out of his storefront. Don Joe tells the agent “no, I don’t do that.” The government agent convinces Don Joe of the profitability and overcomes the resistance. Then the undercover then gets arrest warrants for Don Joe for drug distribution. Entrapment could be raised as a defense.

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    Re: How is it possible to bust a drug dealer without using entrapment?

    A police officer is a government agent...here is what I am saying lets say that the person was going to quit dealing drugs until the officer asks him to sell him drugs which could make the person a lot of money whether they are using it to buy food, pay rent, pay their electric bill whatever how is that not entrapment if there was no willingness to deal drugs anymore before the police officer asked the person to?

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