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Should School-Age Bullying be Criminal?

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OrlandoGringo

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I am aware of school-aged kids committing suicide because of relentless and merciless bullying from classmates. Should bullying be criminalized? I think an argument can be made that it should be criminalized. Again, I´m talking about school-aged kids, not adults. We protect the underaged by rightfully criminalizing those who would sexually prey upon them, we protect the underaged by forbidding them from smoking or consuming alchohol. And why do we protect them? I guess we protect them in this manner because, as a society, we feel that our youth do not yet have the capacity to be able to make sound decisions on such matters. Along those lines, shouldn´t we protect our youth from the viciousness of other youth by criminzling unending bullying?

Here is a link and a copy/paste from a recent suicide by a girl in the Boston area:

2 Students Reportedly Expelled From Mass. High School After Cyber Bullying Suicide - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

2 Students Reportedly Expelled From Mass. High School After Cyber Bullying Suicide
Wednesday, February 24, 2010


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MyFoxBoston.com


File photo of Phoebe Prince.
A group of South Hadley, Mass., students accused of bullying a classmate who later committed suicide won't be returning to the community's high school, MyFoxBoston.com reported.

Superintendent Gus Sayer told The Boston Globe on Tuesday the school district took the problem seriously and the students "will not be returning." He would not say if they had been expelled, citing privacy concerns.

TheBostonChannel.com reported that two students accused of bullying 15-year-old Phoebe Prince were expelled from South Hadley High School.

Prince killed herself allegedly after being bullied through text messages, Facebook posts and in person.

Separately, legislation targeting school bullying cleared a legislative committee Tuesday and was sent to the Senate for its review.

It would require that each school district, charter school and all nonpublic schools develop a bullying prevention and intervention plan.

The Senate passed anti-bullying legislation last session but it never emerged for a vote in the House.

Related StoriesAngry Mass. Parents Demand Action on Bullying After Girl's Suicide
Two Massachusetts Teens Suspended in Cyber Bullying Suicide Case
Mass. High School Girl Takes Life After Allegedly Taunted by Cyber Bullies
400 parents, students and school administrators attended a cyerbullying meeting on Tuesday night. They began the day with a standing ovation for the school's principal.

Parents and students were broken into groups and had questions answered about cyber bullying and how to prevent it.
 
This is an interesting issue. I do think that a child should suffer repercussions if he/she is bullying another student. It sounds like what these kids were doing would fall within the definition of harassment. I will be one of those parents who will come down hard on my chid if he was a bully, but also come down on any child (via the proper channels) if any child is bullying my son. I'm not talking about, "You're a loser. Nah nah nah nah." I'm talking about acts that would fall within a crime if an adult committed them (harassment, assault).
 
I think bullying should be a status offense crime. Bullying has been directly linked to trauma and suicide and obviously neither parents nor schools do a good enough job alleviating it. I think the juvenile justice system can handle those brats who choose to bully.
 
OrlandoGringo said:
I am aware of school-aged kids committing suicide because of relentless and merciless bullying from classmates. Should bullying be criminalized? I think an argument can be made that it should be criminalized. Again, I´m talking about school-aged kids, not adults. We protect the underaged by rightfully criminalizing those who would sexually prey upon them, we protect the underaged by forbidding them from smoking or consuming alchohol. And why do we protect them? I guess we protect them in this manner because, as a society, we feel that our youth do not yet have the capacity to be able to make sound decisions on such matters. Along those lines, shouldn´t we protect our youth from the viciousness of other youth by criminzling unending bullying?

Here is a link and a copy/paste from a recent suicide by a girl in the Boston area:

2 Students Reportedly Expelled From Mass. High School After Cyber Bullying Suicide - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

2 Students Reportedly Expelled From Mass. High School After Cyber Bullying Suicide
Wednesday, February 24, 2010


Print ShareThis
MyFoxBoston.com


File photo of Phoebe Prince.
A group of South Hadley, Mass., students accused of bullying a classmate who later committed suicide won't be returning to the community's high school, MyFoxBoston.com reported.

Superintendent Gus Sayer told The Boston Globe on Tuesday the school district took the problem seriously and the students "will not be returning." He would not say if they had been expelled, citing privacy concerns.

TheBostonChannel.com reported that two students accused of bullying 15-year-old Phoebe Prince were expelled from South Hadley High School.

Prince killed herself allegedly after being bullied through text messages, Facebook posts and in person.

Separately, legislation targeting school bullying cleared a legislative committee Tuesday and was sent to the Senate for its review.

It would require that each school district, charter school and all nonpublic schools develop a bullying prevention and intervention plan.

The Senate passed anti-bullying legislation last session but it never emerged for a vote in the House.

Related StoriesAngry Mass. Parents Demand Action on Bullying After Girl's Suicide
Two Massachusetts Teens Suspended in Cyber Bullying Suicide Case
Mass. High School Girl Takes Life After Allegedly Taunted by Cyber Bullies
400 parents, students and school administrators attended a cyerbullying meeting on Tuesday night. They began the day with a standing ovation for the school's principal.

Parents and students were broken into groups and had questions answered about cyber bullying and how to prevent it.
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this is so sad. it makes me wonder about the parents of the bullies.
 
liblady said:
this is so sad. it makes me wonder about the parents of the bullies.
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Wonder no more. The parents are assholes (most of the time).
 
Schools need anti-bullying policies in place. It took one mom in Lake County filing an ACLU law suit before getting her son help from gay bashing in school.

I hate bullies, I have to remind myself the bullies need help too.
 
I was a middle of the pack kid in school, not quite one of the lower rung but not really accepted into the upper either. I had my fair share of bullying done to me at times and I had friends that got it much worse.

That said, criminalizing it is crazy in my opinion. Especially off of nothing but emotional prattle about suicide deaths. For every 1 person that kills himself supposedly over bullying there's likely thousands of kids that were picked on or bullied in some fashion that don't. Yet if we criminalize "bullying" you may save a handful of those people that kill themselves (assuming of course there's not some underlining reason that led to it and the bullying just helped push it along) while likely irrevocably doing damage to thousands of peoples lives by getting them in legal trouble over "bullying". Not to mention the potential slippery slope of what could consider "bullying". I think this would do nothing as well but breed a further pussification of the general population, where father and mother government must step in to protect you at all costs and no ones allowed to have their feelings hurt.

If someone is actually physically beating a child up there doesn't need to be a "bullying" law in place, if you wish you could persue assult issues. If people are bullying by stealing from him, again, there's laws in place. The "harsher" forms of bullying already HAVE laws that theoritically you could use on a juvenile scale if you so wish. I don't see how creating a new law would be worth while unless you're starting to water it down to the point where if someones a dick in the lunchroom and throws an open ketchup packet at another kid across the way then he's going to be hauled off into juvenile detention.

Should schools actually issue punishments, suspensions and so forth, to kids who are doing over the top or even questionable bullying? Definitely. Should parents step up and act if their kids are being bullied. Absolutely. But trying to criminalize it is nothing but pure over reaction imho.
 
Once again, anytime we have unsuitable behavior we want to stop, all we have to do, is make a Law, or ordnance against it, and it will go away over night.---stupid should also be made Illegal, with out a proper permit. :2wave:
 
Zyphlin said:
That said, criminalizing it is crazy in my opinion.
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Well to bad because assault and harassment have been illegal for a very long time now, even for kids.
 
Jerry said:
Well to bad because assault and harassment have been illegal for a very long time now, even for kids.
Click to expand...
Correct, and we no longer have either one, so it must work out fine. :mrgreen:
 
Jerry said:
Well to bad because assault and harassment have been illegal for a very long time now, even for kids.
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Psst, you may want to read past the first line, it'll make you less likely to make ironically ignorant responses to posts. I go on to explain that very notion.
 
Zyphlin said:
Psst, you may want to read past the first line, it'll make you less likely to make ironically ignorant responses to posts. I go on to explain that very notion.
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Your personal experience in high school is anecdotal and thus entirely irrelevant. You are supporting the legalization of assault on students by other students.
 
Apart from when i was a little kid ive never witnessed bullying.Untill i worked full time and people who are pretty timid by nature do.I think its more about the people who laugh along that are the problem.
 
Jerry said:
Your personal experience in high school is anecdotal and thus entirely irrelevant. You are supporting the legalization of assault on students by other students.
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Reading, it is your friend.

From my post you apparently didn't bother reading and just decided to idiotically knee jerk respond to:

Zyphlin said:
If someone is actually physically beating a child up there doesn't need to be a "bullying" law in place, if you wish you could persue assult issues. If people are bullying by stealing from him, again, there's laws in place. The "harsher" forms of bullying already HAVE laws that theoritically you could use on a juvenile scale if you so wish. I don't see how creating a new law would be worth while unless you're starting to water it down to the point where if someones a dick in the lunchroom and throws an open ketchup packet at another kid across the way then he's going to be hauled off into juvenile detention.
Click to expand...

Yep, there I am, supporting assault on other students by STATING ITS ALREADY ILLEGAL to do so.

For ****s Sakes do you actually read and think before you post at times?
 
Zyphlin said:
Reading, it is your friend.

From my post you apparently didn't bother reading and just decided to idiotically knee jerk respond to:



Yep, there I am, supporting assault on other students by STATING ITS ALREADY ILLEGAL to do so.

For ****s Sakes do you actually read and think before you post at times?
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At least you admit that your argument is double-speak. There might be hope for you yet.

Meta-crimes have their place, but I like to take them on a case by case basis. Did someone post a link to a specific 'bullying crime" that I missed?
 
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Jerry said:
At least you admit that your argument is double-speak. There might be hope for you yet.
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Sorry Jerry. If you don't take the time to actually READ what you're responding to, get told to go back and read it and still fail to, and then have it shoved in your face and you still try to dance, duck, and jive instead of owning up to your own idiotic mistake in the first place there's really no point in discussing anything with you. You're not here to talk, you're here to poke and prod people for reactions. Not worth my time, you're as transparent as a window.
 
Zyphlin said:
Sorry Jerry. If you don't take the time to actually READ what you're responding to, get told to go back and read it and still fail to, and then have it shoved in your face and you still try to dance, duck, and jive instead of owning up to your own idiotic mistake in the first place there's really no point in discussing anything with you. You're not here to talk, you're here to poke and prod people for reactions. Not worth my time, you're as transparent as a window.
Click to expand...

An equivocating argument and ignoring requests for links.

Weak.

Let me know when you want to discuss the thread topic :2wave:
 
Bullying beyond assault should be criminalized. Bullying in schools occurs far more often then people believe. It is extremely underreported because there is often little that schools can or do do. Further, the social repercussions of a bully being "outed" with minimal consequences will often continue the bullying. A colleague of mine (and I occasionally) give talks at schools about bullying and we always find that many kids are bullied but never say anything either for fear of repercussions or because nothing is ever done. Further, most schools have policies in which even responding to the bully could net you consequences. Bullying is on the rise because of the anonymity of the internet and the "safe distance" provided by texting. IMO, criminalizing it gives enough consequences to deter some from doing it, or at the very least, makes parents aware that there will be more serious consequences than a couple of detentions or a suspension (which is not a consequence, but a vacation).
 
And what you'll essentially do is trade in a handful, in terms of large percentage, of kids committing suicide "because of bullying" for hundreds of individuals getting into legal trouble over acts that are essentially simply a part of growing up. I've never seen a single social group, from the lowest of low to the highest of high, not at some point ridicule, make fun of, etc someone else in some way. What constitues "bullying" and picking on? What consistutes "bullying" and "ribbing". If a group of friend continually gives one of those friends **** for say something as innocuous as being short, but they all give all their friends **** its kind of what young boys do, but that kid takes it a little too seriously...is that suddenly bullying?

While I understand the under reported nature of bullying for a variety of reasons, I think the likilyhood of the "Oh Won't Someone Think of the Children!!!!!" crowd continuing to dilude it to the point where its overly harsh and far to generalized. I think criminalizing "bullying", which is such an extremely broad term, is a very extreme action for something that ultimately is not a giant problem that could potentially have very unexpected consequences.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Bullying beyond assault should be criminalized. Bullying in schools occurs far more often then people believe. It is extremely underreported because there is often little that schools can or do do. Further, the social repercussions of a bully being "outed" with minimal consequences will often continue the bullying. A colleague of mine (and I occasionally) give talks at schools about bullying and we always find that many kids are bullied but never say anything either for fear of repercussions or because nothing is ever done. Further, most schools have policies in which even responding to the bully could net you consequences. Bullying is on the rise because of the anonymity of the internet and the "safe distance" provided by texting. IMO, criminalizing it gives enough consequences to deter some from doing it, or at the very least, makes parents aware that there will be more serious consequences than a couple of detentions or a suspension (which is not a consequence, but a vacation).
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Words can not express how frustrated and pissed off I am at those zero-tolerance policies. I tell my boys never to hit in anger, and "if someone hits you first you can hit them back and defend yourself", but the school doesn't care. Sometimes it does matter who started it.
 
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Zyphlin said:
And what you'll essentially do is trade in a handful, in terms of large percentage, of kids committing suicide "because of bullying" for hundreds of individuals getting into legal trouble over acts that are essentially simply a part of growing up. I've never seen a single social group, from the lowest of low to the highest of high, not at some point ridicule, make fun of, etc someone else in some way. What constitues "bullying" and picking on? What consistutes "bullying" and "ribbing". If a group of friend continually gives one of those friends **** for say something as innocuous as being short, but they all give all their friends **** its kind of what young boys do, but that kid takes it a little too seriously...is that suddenly bullying?

While I understand the under reported nature of bullying for a variety of reasons, I think the likilyhood of the "Oh Won't Someone Think of the Children!!!!!" crowd continuing to dilude it to the point where its overly harsh and far to generalized. I think criminalizing "bullying", which is such an extremely broad term, is a very extreme action for something that ultimately is not a giant problem that could potentially have very unexpected consequences.
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Someone had to die for students to be pressed with charges.

Do you understand that? Someone had to die.

You speak as though the school is going to criminalize the kind of common light teasing which everyone should develop a sense of humor about and learn to laugh at them selves.

That's not it at all.

We're talking about well documented, excessive harassment both in and out of school, where damages sustained by the victim can be substantiated through police reports and strict diagnostic criteria.

We're talking about extreme circumstances.
 
Jerry said:
Words can not express how frustrated and pissed off I am at those zero-tolerance policies. I tell my boys never to hit in anger, and "if someone hits you first you can hit them back and defend yourself", but the school doesn't care. Sometimes it does matter who started it.
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This was the same philosophy my dad had and the same one I plan to have should I ever have a child.
 
Zyphlin said:
This was the same philosophy my dad had and the same one I plan to have should I ever have a child.
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I'm sorry for being an asshole to you yesterday. I shouldn't let my personal life bleed onto the forum so much.
 
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