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Making jail harder for criminals only makes better criminals

Uh, what is and what is not a felony is already established in law regardless of the nature and quality of the counselor before the bench.

On that note, I think it is shameful that felonies can be plea bargained down to misdemeanors......:(
Lock the felonious scum up for a good, long time.......;)
 
Uh, what is and what is not a felony is already established in law regardless of the nature and quality of the counselor before the bench.
A good lawyer can plead down a charge. Killers plead down to manslaughter kinda thing.
 
O.K We should simply "coddle: these folks and make sure they get the shrink help they need-which probably will not work if they are not interested. Do you know how many people out here need therapy that cannot afford to go? Sure. Lets baby these jerks, try to see what is going on in their mind, feed em, give em clothes, etc. In the meantime there are law abiding citizens who could use this help more than these low life scums that will be back.

Forgive me if I do not feel a coddle is the right way to go about handling someone who ends up in jail. Forgive me if I really do not want them sucking on my taxdollar teet.
Just remember, those same people will be walking our streets again someday. How much more anger and hate for the system do you really want to instill in them, when they one day approach you in a dark parking lot. "Treat people fair and square", and they will recognize it, and not go postal as easily on somebody.---many people or one slap in face from going ballistic as it is.
 
O.K We should simply "coddle: these folks and make sure they get the shrink help they need-which probably will not work if they are not interested. Do you know how many people out here need therapy that cannot afford to go? Sure. Lets baby these jerks, try to see what is going on in their mind, feed em, give em clothes, etc. In the meantime there are law abiding citizens who could use this help more than these low life scums that will be back.

Forgive me if I do not feel a coddle is the right way to go about handling someone who ends up in jail. Forgive me if I really do not want them sucking on my taxdollar teet.

So you equate coddling to rehabilitating?
 
"Do onto others" comes to mind---but that is old fashion thinkin, in the day of the Ipod.
 
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O.K We should simply "coddle: these folks and make sure they get the shrink help they need-which probably will not work if they are not interested. Do you know how many people out here need therapy that cannot afford to go? Sure. Lets baby these jerks, try to see what is going on in their mind, feed em, give em clothes, etc. In the meantime there are law abiding citizens who could use this help more than these low life scums that will be back.

Just because I think criminals should get psychiatric counseling doesn't mean I think law-abiding citizens shouldn't get psychiatric counseling. I'm all in favor for a universal mental health care plan. I think lawful people should be able to get counseling just as much as those incarcerated.

Forgive me if I do not feel a coddle is the right way to go about handling someone who ends up in jail. Forgive me if I really do not want them sucking on my taxdollar teet.

I bet that the tax dollars we would pay for continued counseling and job training and work placement would be less than the tax dollars we would have to spend for catching their repeat offenses, investigating them, putting them on trial, and incarcerating them again, added with the costs of stolen goods or damaged property.
 
You know, a lot of folks are saying that prison should be to reform and rehabilitate. In the perfect world, I suppose, it would be. It should be. In some cases it is. But in most cases it's not.

And that's just terrible. Boo-hoo-hoo... :(

Instead, it's a place where the dregs of society are stored away for the good of the whole. Now, locked away, instead of being a predatory nucience upon a law abiding society, they become a predatory nucience on a preditory nucience society. This makes them to have to sharpen their skills a bit. Maybe even their claws.

There's your rehabilitation. Read 'em and weep.

I think prison should be for punishment, first and foremost. And I make NO apologies for it. I think, in our touchy-feely society, by the time a dreg FINALLY makes it to the BIG house, he's a worthless piece of nothing. If he were to be kept alive for any reason at all it should be for forced labor or some other purpose meant only to benefit the society he had been deemed unworthy to live amongst.

But that's just me. :cool:
 
You know, a lot of folks are saying that prison should be to reform and rehabilitate. In the perfect world, I suppose, it would be. It should be. In some cases it is. But in most cases it's not.

And that's just terrible. Boo-hoo-hoo... :(

Instead, it's a place where the dregs of society are stored away for the good of the whole. Now, locked away, instead of being a predatory nucience upon a law abiding society, they become a predatory nucience on a preditory nucience society. This makes them to have to sharpen their skills a bit. Maybe even their claws.

There's your rehabilitation. Read 'em and weep.

I think prison should be for punishment, first and foremost. And I make NO apologies for it. I think, in our touchy-feely society, by the time a dreg FINALLY makes it to the BIG house, he's a worthless piece of nothing. If he were to be kept alive for any reason at all it should be for forced labor or some other purpose meant only to benefit the society he had been deemed unworthy to live amongst.

But that's just me. :cool:
Remind me to bring you a pie, if you slip up, and have to do a little time.---Just remember, it is for your own good. :mrgreen:
 
I saw a documentary on methamphetamine in California a couple years ago. Nearly all the meth makers they interviewed learned the trade in prison. Finally, another documentary showed how pretty much the only way for a white guy to survive in some prisons was to join a white supremacist gang. The gangs were then extremely adept at making sure that the new member, long after leaving prison, could never, ever leave the gang, often with his own families being threatened as retaliation for leaving.

With drugs, gangs, and the brutal treatment of weaker inmates, it's kind of hard not to imagine quite a lot of people ending up much less socially adjusted than before. As I said in the Madoff thread, I have little sympathy for those who habitually prey on other people, but when those who are reformable receive the same brutal treatment as those who sociopathic (and when in fact the prison life even rewards those same sociopaths), the system has failed.
 
Remind me to bring you a pie, if you slip up, and have to do a little time.---Just remember, it is for your own good. :mrgreen:

Well, they say don't do the crime if you ain't got the time. Although I ain't no saint, it don't take a ===) up my ( * ) to get me back in line. I ain't got the time.

And it really isn't that much of a chore to keep myself from criminal behavior. Some people almost seem predisposed to be career criminals and just can't seem to help themselves. For whatever reasons.

In our forgiving society, where people get off with little slaps on the wrist for crimes that should keep them from the light of day, I am of the opinion that by the time a convict makes it the serious prison, he just might as well stay there forever.
 
The simple truth is, someone got to pay for this, and mental treatment to everyone in prison isn't cheap. The best way to reduce this problem, is to reduce overpopulated prisons, put different criminals in different prisons, and let people be active in the community. For instance, in the last years of the sentence, they can do jobs outside prison. This is also a good way to reintroduce them to the society.
 
Just remember, those same people will be walking our streets again someday. How much more anger and hate for the system do you really want to instill in them, when they one day approach you in a dark parking lot. "Treat people fair and square", and they will recognize it, and not go postal as easily on somebody.---many people or one slap in face from going ballistic as it is.

Treat them fair? Umm. No thanks. I would rather take the chance that they may learn a lesson from their punishment.:roll:

These scumbags already hate the system and giving them things in hopes to appease them? It is wrong to reward for bad actions. I guess we should just put em all up at the Trump so as not to anger them. Give me a break:shock:
 
"Do onto others" comes to mind---but that is old fashion thinkin, in the day of the Ipod.

Yeah. These assholes shoulda learned that lesson before they got locked up! Since they could give a crap less how they treat people? I cannot make my heart bleed for em. :roll:
 
I saw a documentary on methamphetamine in California a couple years ago. Nearly all the meth makers they interviewed learned the trade in prison. Finally, another documentary showed how pretty much the only way for a white guy to survive in some prisons was to join a white supremacist gang. The gangs were then extremely adept at making sure that the new member, long after leaving prison, could never, ever leave the gang, often with his own families being threatened as retaliation for leaving.

With drugs, gangs, and the brutal treatment of weaker inmates, it's kind of hard not to imagine quite a lot of people ending up much less socially adjusted than before. As I said in the Madoff thread, I have little sympathy for those who habitually prey on other people, but when those who are reformable receive the same brutal treatment as those who sociopathic (and when in fact the prison life even rewards those same sociopaths), the system has failed.


You do bring up some good points. The same thing happens with black males and why so many of them "convert" to Islam in lockdown. They do it cause they have no choice unless they want to be outcast and get major beatdowns. But the beatdowns happen inside the groups too.
 
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So what did you do, slip up while skating?
I've never been to Prison. but I have spent a little time in the County jail, and the City Jail. --Usually based on not having money to get things taken care of like I should have. No Auto insurance is the big one.---city Jail, for Skating on the Streets. --I'm not a criminal, I just screw up from time to time.
 
Well, they say don't do the crime if you ain't got the time. Although I ain't no saint, it don't take a ===) up my ( * ) to get me back in line. I ain't got the time.

And it really isn't that much of a chore to keep myself from criminal behavior. Some people almost seem predisposed to be career criminals and just can't seem to help themselves. For whatever reasons.

In our forgiving society, where people get off with little slaps on the wrist for crimes that should keep them from the light of day, I am of the opinion that by the time a convict makes it the serious prison, he just might as well stay there forever.

An acquaintance who recently quit his job as a correctional officer in Huntsville told me that roughly 10% of the prison population is innocent. I asked him if he was serious and he said yes. :shock:
 
I've never been to Prison. but I have spent a little time in the County jail, and the City Jail. --Usually based on not having money to get things taken care of like I should have. No Auto insurance is the big one.---city Jail, for Skating on the Streets. --I'm not a criminal, I just screw up from time to time.

I've known people who have done time at several of our local jails for minor offenses. Anyone who can manage to emerge from their stay as a guest at any of our lovely local "accommodations", while retaining his/her sanity and sense of humor, has my respect.

 
i think they should do the first half of a sentence as "hard time" but the rest in rehabilitation
 
Well, they say don't do the crime if you ain't got the time. Although I ain't no saint, it don't take a ===) up my ( * ) to get me back in line. I ain't got the time.

And it really isn't that much of a chore to keep myself from criminal behavior. Some people almost seem predisposed to be career criminals and just can't seem to help themselves. For whatever reasons.

In our forgiving society, where people get off with little slaps on the wrist for crimes that should keep them from the light of day, I am of the opinion that by the time a convict makes it the serious prison, he just might as well stay there forever.

The problem I have with "don't do the crime if you can't do the time" is that 1) there are many unfair laws in this country and 2) not everybody knows exactly what are and aren't crimes.

For example, some of our most unfair laws are marijuana laws. There's no reason why teenagers and 20-somethings should get locked up in jail with gangbangers and rapists because they smoke a joint. I also think our prostitution laws are unfair as well.

I understand that there are a lot of bad people out there who won't ever be helped by rehabilitation. Those people should be locked up in prison and never let out. However, not every criminal is like that and they should have a chance.
 
I've known people who have done time at several of our local jails for minor offenses. Anyone who can manage to emerge from their stay as a guest at any of our lovely local "accommodations", while retaining his/her sanity and sense of humor, has my respect.

I went to County Jail, like 30 years ago, (wow that long?) and when I got out, I kept my ID wrist tag on for like a week or so. Just in case things got any worse for me on the streets. I knew where I could go, to play checkers and watch TV, with food and a hot shower, in air conditioned comfort. . County was better than where I was at the time.
 
Jail should be a reform aparatus, and the elimination of drug offenders would do wonders in that regard.

I agree wholeheartedly, if you are referring to legalizing some substances that are now illegal. Casual drug users are taking up prison space unnecessarily. I believe resources for incarceration would be better suited for much more dangerous criminals than the dingaling from the video store that likes to smoke his weed after work on Friday nights.

I would just like to add that I'd like to see more preventative measures taken with children that are considered at high risk of taking part in criminal activity.

Instead of trying to "cure" the problem once it's occurred and thusly harder than hell to succeed in rehabilitation at that point - prevent the problem from occurring to begin with.
 
I agree wholeheartedly, if you are referring to legalizing some substances that are now illegal. Casual drug users are taking up prison space unnecessarily. I believe resources for incarceration would be better suited for much more dangerous criminals than the dingaling from the video store that likes to smoke his weed after work on Friday nights.

I would just like to add that I'd like to see more preventative measures taken with children that are considered at high risk of taking part in criminal activity.

Instead of trying to "cure" the problem once it's occurred and thusly harder than hell to succeed in rehabilitation at that point - prevent the problem from occurring to begin with.
Prevention is the key---punishment after the fact, is no different than crying over spilled milk.
 
America is a not a very empathetic, understanding, or forgiving place. Society places a life-long stigma on those that have screwed up in the past and after prison expect them to carry on just like the rest of us. This could be one contributing factor as to why many turn back to criminal activity. If you're forever going to be labeled an irresponsible alcoholic by society no matter what changes you try and make, why stop drinking?

There are those who should be in prison because they are dangerous and a threat to the safety of other citizens. No doubt about that. However, when it comes to those who are not and will one day be released, I cannot see how prison positively changes this person nor how it can be good for their mental stability. Try locking yourself in a bedroom for one week straight, only getting up to use the bathroom, showering, and to eat. Now, for this week you may not leave your room for any other purpose and have very limited contact with humans for 1hr a day. I doesn't take a psychologist to tell you that after a few days almost all of us would start to go insane . Most people can't grasp the idea of what confinement really does to people mentally. Now if you want to punish someone, this is perfect. However, if you want to rehabilitate someone to be released back into society and lead productive crime free lives, this is not a logical approach. People need structure and productive social interaction on a somewhat regular basis in order to function normally. Prison doesn't seem to do any of this. So can we really expect people that have spent the last 5,10,20 years behind bars to just get up and be productive when released?

Another thing is that Crime pays an awfully lot of salaries throughout the country. While we don't encourage crime, I often get the feeling that we don't really try to prevent it either. We keep passing more and more laws, which then leads to more tax paying jobs in the criminal justice field because we need more cops, investigators, prison guards., prosecutors etc. Some times I wonder that if in 50 years half of society will be incarcerated and the other half will all be cops. Maybe we should spend more time figuring out why people keep breaking the same laws year after year and what we as a society can to prevent it. Because clearly more laws, bars, and cops haven't really deterred anything. Just look at the disastrous cluster-fu*k known as "The War On Drugs." We've spent trillions since the 1970's and it's just as easy now than ever to find any drug you want. While at the same time it has severely overcrowded our prisons in recent decades and ruined many many lives in the proccess. Just imagine all the lives that could have been saved if drugs were decriminalized and all that money was spent of rehabilitation centers and drug use prevention education.

I'm also shocked at the number of convicted murderers and rapist that have been cleared in recent years due to DNA evidence. Did anyone else hear about the black guy just released from prison after serving since 1974 for a rape and murder he did not commit. It's crazy, makes you feel bad for all those who will never have that DNA surface. Don't get me wrong, a good majority of people in prison certainly do belong there and are guilty. I will not argue that. But, it sure makes you wonder how many innocent people are locked up for crimes that cannot be solved with DNA.

One things for sure, the American justice system if very fu*ked up. We let rich murderers caught on tape go free and imprison poor black people on circumstantial evidence. A guy breaks into a woman’s house and steals a lamp he's a thief. He breaks in and steals a pair of her panties, he's a sex offender. It's a very broken system that no one wants fixed until they are the victim of it. The US locks up more of their own citizens that any other country by far. And from what I've read, that number is only expected to rise in the future. But since it cost like 50,000-60,000 tax dollars to incarcerate one person for one year, you'd think that more people would want to focus on prevention rather than punishment. But it's no surprise, since we often make the same failed mistakes in this country expecting a different outcome time and time again.
 
prisons should reform people by putting them to work. Make them into factories and have them pay for their own incarceration with the goods/services they produce. Teach them trades. No offense to any therapists here, but I think that's the best (and probably the only) way to set them straight. Change their lifestyles.

The problem of innocent folk in prisons and plea bargaining has nothing to do with what prisons should be like. These are problems with the operation of the legal system before one is incarcerated.
 
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