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Old 06-27-09, 11:29 AM   #41
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

Japan is a highly conformist society with a higher rate of common trust since people's actions tend to fall within a predictable framework. It makes it easier to regulate people and make effective policy. People who are dangerous and show outward instability are noticed more easily because of this.

Also, committing crimes doesn't just affect you, but your family. Depending on the crime, you may not only ruin your life, but the lives of your family members, forever. They won't be able to get jobs, have a normal social life, and their standard of living will decline. A common tactic to escape such a scenario is to commit suicide to spare your family the shame.

People who have never left the Western world will have never experienced a place with such pressure to conform. Tokyo is basically the most orderly human place on Earth.
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Old 06-27-09, 06:40 PM   #42
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
Make drug offenses punishible by death and then kill them within 30 days of conviction.
Great idea....

Starting with doctors who give anyone a prescription to vicodin, valium, and xanax. Poor Rush
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Old 06-28-09, 03:26 PM   #43
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

I read were there is more then 2 million people in US prisons.That's a lot. Perhaps the Government likes to criminalize people.
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Old 06-28-09, 03:40 PM   #44
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux View Post
The comparison of the crime rates, per capita, of these other nations, also speaks to gun control issues, as well. We do own a lot of guns in the U.S., but we aren't more violent than other nations...in fact, we are significantly less violent than many with strict gun control laws.
Not necessarily. Incorporation of raw data will not produce the most empirically sound results, certainly not to the same extent that isolation of the gun effect will. For example, we have Duggan's More guns, more crime.

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This paper examines the relationship between gun ownership and crime. Previous research has suffered from a lack of reliable data on gun ownership. I exploit a unique data set to reliably estimate annual rates of gun ownership at both the state and the county levels during the past two decades. My findings demonstrate that changes in gun ownership are significantly positively related to changes in the homicide rate, with this relationship driven almost entirely by an impact of gun ownership on murders in which a gun is used. The effect of gun ownership on all other crime categories is much less marked. Recent reductions in the fraction of households owning a gun can explain one‐third of the differential decline in gun homicides relative to nongun homicides since 1993.
That said, I'm happy to at least see attempted consultation of empircal research, even if it's the somewhat discredited data of John Lott, for instance.
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Old 06-28-09, 05:44 PM   #45
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by Lopettaa View Post
I read were there is more then 2 million people in US prisons.That's a lot. Perhaps the Government likes to criminalize people.
Perhaps people like to break laws?

Why does it always have to be the government's fault?





Oh, thats right... its "blame everyone else" America we live in.
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Old 07-03-09, 10:39 AM   #46
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Perhaps people like to break laws?

Why does it always have to be the government's fault?





Oh, thats right... its "blame everyone else" America we live in.
I don't think it's a matter of blaming the government for individual acts of deviance. Crime is big buisness in our country and it makes far more finacial sense to our government to just lock people up instead of getting to the root of any contributing factors relating to crime. We pass many many new laws every year while keeping the same old failed ones on the books. Laws that have proven to just not work (or in other words contribute more to criminal deviance-recidivism than to rehibiltaion or prevention).

So, with more laws there will have to be more jobs, because we will then need more inverstigators, policemen, juries, judges, lawyers-prosecutors, prisons, prison corrections officers, prison nurses, prison cooks, probation officers, law enfocment technology and so on. Crime pays alot of salaries in our country. Why would we want to to go and mess that up? Less crime means less jobs are needed in our criminal justice system.

Have you ever seen what happens when the state trys to close a prison institution to save the tax payers a few dollars? People are outraged, and why? Because the major employer in their community is about to go out of buisness and many people are about to lose their jobs.
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Old 07-03-09, 11:59 AM   #47
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
I don't think it's a matter of blaming the government for individual acts of deviance. Crime is big buisness in our country and it makes far more finacial sense to our government to just lock people up instead of getting to the root of any contributing factors relating to crime. We pass many many new laws every year while keeping the same old failed ones on the books. Laws that have proven to just not work (or in other words contribute more to criminal deviance-recidivism than to rehibiltaion or prevention).

So, with more laws there will have to be more jobs, because we will then need more inverstigators, policemen, juries, judges, lawyers-prosecutors, prisons, prison corrections officers, prison nurses, prison cooks, probation officers, law enfocment technology and so on. Crime pays alot of salaries in our country. Why would we want to to go and mess that up? Less crime means less jobs are needed in our criminal justice system.

Have you ever seen what happens when the state trys to close a prison institution to save the tax payers a few dollars? People are outraged, and why? Because the major employer in their community is about to go out of buisness and many people are about to lose their jobs.
Im sorry, I didn't realize that it was the LAWS BEING MADE that are at fault for people breaking them.

The laws you speak of, you know, the ones that require prison time. They are generally really, I don't know, BAD THINGS. That people shoudn't be doing. To say, "Hey maaan, they don't work" is ridiculous. There are alot of people who will do whatever the hell they want whenever they want, regardless of what the law states. In fact I think that is stated in the rap music listeners guide volume 1.
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Old 07-03-09, 01:20 PM   #48
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by Caine View Post
Im sorry, I didn't realize that it was the LAWS BEING MADE that are at fault for people breaking them.

The laws you speak of, you know, the ones that require prison time. They are generally really, I don't know, BAD THINGS. That people shoudn't be doing. To say, "Hey maaan, they don't work" is ridiculous. There are alot of people who will do whatever the hell they want whenever they want, regardless of what the law states. In fact I think that is stated in the rap music listeners guide volume 1.
i hear you

those folks out there committing victimless crimes, like smoking weed, consensual sex for money

can't let that get out of hand

lock em up [/s]
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Old 07-03-09, 02:47 PM   #49
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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i hear you

those folks out there committing victimless crimes, like smoking weed, consensual sex for money

can't let that get out of hand

lock em up [/s]
Do you realize the only lock up time "smoking weed" and "consensual sex for money" receive is usually the 1 day or a few more they spend in pre-trial right?

I think you are getting minor possession of user level amounts of marijuana mixed up with possession with intent to sell/distribute and trafficking, which actually get prison time.

Ive also not heard of any prostitute getting prison time.

But then again, maybe my state just does **** right.
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Old 07-05-09, 07:52 PM   #50
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Re: When are too many people in prison?

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Originally Posted by Caine View Post
Im sorry, I didn't realize that it was the LAWS BEING MADE that are at fault for people breaking them.

The laws you speak of, you know, the ones that require prison time. They are generally really, I don't know, BAD THINGS. That people shoudn't be doing. To say, "Hey maaan, they don't work" is ridiculous. There are alot of people who will do whatever the hell they want whenever they want, regardless of what the law states. In fact I think that is stated in the rap music listeners guide volume 1.
Yeah, I'm sure you're right. Let's just keep doing the same thing we've been doing for the past 4 decades and hope for better results?


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