Live in San Fran? Don't light your fireplace...

Dezaad · 12-08-08, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Certain communities nowdays have these wood burning bans,especially in cities. Its basically the result of what cities are. Overpopulated pockets of humanity that are so smushed together, you cannot do anything without it having an affect on somebody who lives, drives, or sits right up your asshole. So people work to get these things banned, because they don't like the smell of smoke, or are so completely overwhelmed by a desire to protect their own health, the health of the "underpriviliged", or the environment. And as people continue to get offended by(or try to protect) more and more things, they slowly eat away at freedoms, without realizing they are a snake that is devouring its own tail. They mistakenly believe they are devouring only the rights of others, but in actuality, they are only on the way to devouring their own rights. As it works its way up the tail, it will inevitably consume them.

Funny, the 'right to pollute' is the concept that I see as the snake eating it's own tail. THAT is the thing that is unsustainable, not the laws to prevent such obvious stupidity.

WI Crippler · 12-08-08, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezaad

Funny, the 'right to pollute' is the concept that I see as the snake eating it's own tail. THAT is the thing that is unsustainable, not the laws to prevent such obvious stupidity.

Wood burning is hardly pollution, I mean its not some kind of irreversible pollution. Forests have been burning for thousands of years, and the good ol' earhth keeps ticking along, adapting and overcoming. Fix actual pollution, instead of going after small and insignifcant events like wood burning in a fireplace.

jfuh · 12-08-08, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Certain communities nowdays have these wood burning bans,especially in cities. Its basically the result of what cities are. Overpopulated pockets of humanity that are so smushed together, you cannot do anything without it having an affect on somebody who lives, drives, or sits right up your asshole. So people work to get these things banned, because they don't like the smell of smoke, or are so completely overwhelmed by a desire to protect their own health, the health of the "underpriviliged", or the environment. And as people continue to get offended by(or try to protect) more and more things, they slowly eat away at freedoms, without realizing they are a snake that is devouring its own tail. They mistakenly believe they are devouring only the rights of others, but in actuality, they are only on the way to devouring their own rights. As it works its way up the tail, it will inevitably consume them.

Is rural life sustainable in modern society? Is it practical for everyone to live tens of miles apart from everyone else and still have productive businesses?
People moved out of the rural areas into urban cities because such centers of commerce were economically far superior.
Said argument is applicable within any civilized society, everyone gives up certain freedoms in order to form a harmonized society. I give up my freedom to shoot at anything that moves or defecating anywhere I may please for social prosperity and a civilized society.
Am I going to be bothered that I won't be able to smoke in doors in public spaces because of it? Not the least bit.
Giving up certain freedoms which would bring physical harm to others for peaceful coexistence and prosperity is the only way civilized society could ever function. Don't want to give up any freedom? Then perhaps urban areas or centers of civilization aren't right for you.

missypea · 12-08-08, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dezaad

This happens in other cities in America as well, like Boise, ID: Hardly a bastion of liberalism. It is because Boise experiences air temperature inversions that lock in to it's air whatever local people put into that air.

So, you think that you should be able to do whatever you want on your own property even if what you are doing harms other people? There is no 1st world place on Earth that affords you that privilege. Perhaps you should go live someplace that is less civilized.

I live in Tacoma WA and we've had burn bans for years now. It's definitely not a new idea. There are still people who heat with wood and they are allowed to have the wood stove going during the burn bans. We used a wood stove until about 5 years ago when we replaced the wood stove with a pellet stove.....but the pellets are wood so...

It burns cleaner, in any event.

jfuh · 12-08-08, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

Wood burning is hardly pollution, I mean its not some kind of irreversible pollution. Forests have been burning for thousands of years, and the good ol' earhth keeps ticking along, adapting and overcoming. Fix actual pollution, instead of going after small and insignifcant events like wood burning in a fireplace.

That's not true at all. Fine particulates are quite a serious health hazzard - it's the exact reason we don't burn coal in urban or localities of high populace concentration anymore.
Particulate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Health & Environment | Particulate Matter | Air & Radiation | US EPA
Ever hear of Coal miner's cough? Classic symptom from the effects of too much particulate matter.

jfuh · 12-08-08, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missypea

I live in Tacoma WA and we've had burn bans for years now. It's definitely not a new idea. There are still people who heat with wood and they are allowed to have the wood stove going during the burn bans. We used a wood stove until about 5 years ago when we replaced the wood stove with a pellet stove.....but the pellets are wood so...

It burns cleaner, in any event.

Long story short, more complete combustion.
Pellets are comprised of wood fibers of virtually identical length (uniformity) and are rich in air pockets (oxygenation).
Hence the more porous nature of add onto that the uniformity of the fuel leads to a cleaner burn.
Think of your typical log wood as not just wood, but mixed with wax, oils, and various other mixes of organic compounds. It's like having diesel, gasoline, kerosine, fish blubber, bee wax, lots of tar, and coal all mixed together to burn - they all burn at different temperatures because of different flash points which means that for those that are not yet at their flash point - ie tar - instead of burning it's simply going to break apart from the heat and travel up as a fine particulate - eventually making it's way into your respiratory tract.

missypea · 12-08-08, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

Long story short, more complete combustion.
Pellets are comprised of wood fibers of virtually identical length (uniformity) and are rich in air pockets (oxygenation).
Hence the more porous nature of add onto that the uniformity of the fuel leads to a cleaner burn.
Think of your typical log wood as not just wood, but mixed with wax, oils, and various other mixes of organic compounds. It's like having diesel, gasoline, kerosine, fish blubber, bee wax, lots of tar, and coal all mixed together to burn - imagine the mess.

Thank you, sir.

I knew it burned cleaner....just didn't read the fine print

I love it! No more filthy wood stacked outside and bringing in hibernating bees to wake up.

We did convert the chimney to "gas ready" the same time we bought the pellet stove.

.........assuming gas lines ever make it to our neck of the woods.

WI Crippler · 12-08-08, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

Is rural life sustainable in modern society? Is it practical for everyone to live tens of miles apart from everyone else and still have productive businesses?
People moved out of the rural areas into urban cities because such centers of commerce were economically far superior.
Said argument is applicable within any civilized society, everyone gives up certain freedoms in order to form a harmonized society. I give up my freedom to shoot at anything that moves or defecating anywhere I may please for social prosperity and a civilized society.
Am I going to be bothered that I won't be able to smoke in doors in public spaces because of it? Not the least bit.
Giving up certain freedoms which would bring physical harm to others for peaceful coexistence and prosperity is the only way civilized society could ever function. Don't want to give up any freedom? Then perhaps urban areas or centers of civilization aren't right for you.

You can protect personal freedoms, and have culture and civilization. The idea that you have to give up freedom to have a society that is advanced or "cultured" is ludicrous. All you have to protect against, is people infringing on the rights of other people. Thats the foundation, upon which everything should be built on this country. Sadly, its a foundation that is being eroded away, in the name of special interests. And its not a left or right thing. Its both. And for those of us that value the rights of the individual above all else, there is nowhere else to go.

jfuh · 12-08-08, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

You can protect personal freedoms, and have culture and civilization. The idea that you have to give up freedom to have a society that is advanced or "cultured" is ludicrous. All you have to protect against, is people infringing on the rights of other people. Thats the foundation, upon which everything should be built on this country. Sadly, its a foundation that is being eroded away, in the name of special interests. And its not a left or right thing. Its both. And for those of us that value the rights of the individual above all else, there is nowhere else to go.

Is not pollution that leads to adverse and serious consequences of health not an infringement on the right of privacy of another? ie, why should I have to be subject to the particulate soot of your chimney simply because you want to enjoy a fire in your house on a day where it will impact the health of others? - Atmospheric inversion - which is specific to this case.

rivrrat · 12-08-08, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfuh

Is rural life sustainable in modern society?

Uhh... yeah. It most certainly IS.

Quote:

Don't want to give up any freedom? Then perhaps urban areas or centers of civilization aren't right for you.

Don't want to breathe polluted air? Then perhaps urban areas aren't for you.

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