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Change of mind on Death Penalty.

Goshin said:
I have always believed that some crimes are so heinous, the only appropriate penalty is death.


I still believe that... I just no longer believe the government has a right to carry out that sentence.


In fact, I am persuaded that Government should have no power to kill its own citizens at all. The only exception to this I would make is that individual government agents should have the exact same power as the citizenry in such matters... namely, the right to kill in defense of one's self or of innocents under threat where the threat is severe and imminent. Government agents (police, mainly) who do so should be subject to EXACTLY the same scrutiny and judgement as citizens who do so.


My reasoning is that government is already far too powerful, and abuses its power far too often. While I have doubts and caveats regarding some of the studies using DNA evidence to "prove innocence" of death row inmates (mainly due to old samples poorly stored), my doubts are a matter of degree... there is little question that "the system" has, at times, executed innocent citizens.

This is not acceptable. Since we cannot be certain those government executes are guilty and worthy of death, we must not allow government to execute its own citizens.

A man imprisoned can always be set free if found to be innocent later. A person executed cannot be restored to life if later found innocent.


Understand I am not speaking of the military or of war against foreign enemies, just of the government and its own citizens.




This is too great of a power and too easily misused or willfully abused, and we already know it has been in some cases.


It pains me to come to this conclusion for there are surely crimes that cry out for execution as simple justice, so heinous are they... but the government and the legal system are too fallible to entrust with such a thing.


If a criminal is killed in the act by a citizen or an officer of the law as a matter of defense, so be it. Once arrested and subjected to the judicial system, though, the government should not be allowed to kill its own citizens via cold and premeditated execution.

This is too much power to invest in the hands of an already-too-powerful, often corrupt, often wrong institution.
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I was pro death penalty before as well. Some people simply are not fit to be in society. Much like a rabid dog. and there may be a value to the death penalty that actually saves money. I wonder how often a person that they have dead to rights takes a plea deal that avoids a lengthy trial in order to get the death penalty off the table.

that being said. its clear that our justice system is in no shape to be in a position to execute people. Heck.. even in instances where there are people that we KNOW.. are innocent.. that because of new investigations or new technology.. the justice system KNOWS beyond a shadow of a doubt that these folks are wrongly imprisoned.. it takes months.. sometimes years.. before they get actually freed.

If a system is going to have the power to be swift and determined to execute the guilty person... it must be as equally swift and determined to exonerate the innocent person. And it certainly is not concerned about exonerating the innocent.
 
Cardinal said:
Why is banning the death penalty the "lazy way out?"
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Because then you'll have to deal with prison violence issues, and trying to solve the our overcrowding problems, which may lead us to start looking at the number of laws we have that end with people in jail, the monies private prisons are hauling in, trying to find better prison practices to diminish violence and increase rehabilitation, etc. I mean if you weren't just so damned lazy about it, and just shot they guy in the face, you wouldn't have to worry about any of these other things.
 
GEIxBattleRifle said:
I can only see the human error argument work if the accuracy of the death penalty putting to death the people it should be is extremely low.

You can just take the lazy way out and just ban the death penalty all together or put in the work to fix any problems it has. The Will of the People in the USA seem to want the death penalty stay legal so it's better to make it as accurate as you can.
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Well as we saw by the last election, the "will of the people" isn't always the end all, say all.
 
Goshin said:
I have always believed that some crimes are so heinous, the only appropriate penalty is death.


I still believe that... I just no longer believe the government has a right to carry out that sentence.


In fact, I am persuaded that Government should have no power to kill its own citizens at all. The only exception to this I would make is that individual government agents should have the exact same power as the citizenry in such matters... namely, the right to kill in defense of one's self or of innocents under threat where the threat is severe and imminent. Government agents (police, mainly) who do so should be subject to EXACTLY the same scrutiny and judgement as citizens who do so.


My reasoning is that government is already far too powerful, and abuses its power far too often. While I have doubts and caveats regarding some of the studies using DNA evidence to "prove innocence" of death row inmates (mainly due to old samples poorly stored), my doubts are a matter of degree... there is little question that "the system" has, at times, executed innocent citizens.

This is not acceptable. Since we cannot be certain those government executes are guilty and worthy of death, we must not allow government to execute its own citizens.

A man imprisoned can always be set free if found to be innocent later. A person executed cannot be restored to life if later found innocent.


Understand I am not speaking of the military or of war against foreign enemies, just of the government and its own citizens.




This is too great of a power and too easily misused or willfully abused, and we already know it has been in some cases.


It pains me to come to this conclusion for there are surely crimes that cry out for execution as simple justice, so heinous are they... but the government and the legal system are too fallible to entrust with such a thing.


If a criminal is killed in the act by a citizen or an officer of the law as a matter of defense, so be it. Once arrested and subjected to the judicial system, though, the government should not be allowed to kill its own citizens via cold and premeditated execution.

This is too much power to invest in the hands of an already-too-powerful, often corrupt, often wrong institution.
Click to expand...

This is just-about my view. I have no problem with the death penalty in theory. But in practice, it's applied capriciously and without the dispassion and disinterest that a step like executing a human being should demand.
 
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