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Are The Police Racist?

JC Callender said:
Unfortunately for you, the video in the OP is totally convincing and you simply have an emotional response to the issue with no source for what you consider to be facts. Here's the problem: You feel like you're helping matters, but you're really hurting people because you're appeasing criminals and hampering the only people who can stop them by calling them racists simply for doing their job. Liberal reasoning like that is a big reason why most inner cities, controlled by Democrats who think like you, are in such horrible shape.
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I did not call anyone racist. I said, and it's factually true, the systems are racist. Until that's fixed, individual racism within the narrow scope of police, vs the broad scope of the entire system from police thru judicial and into penal, is really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Some police are racist, some aren't just like all people. The system is the problem and it's undeniably racist.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The statistics in the video attempt to equate police homicide/shooting with police racism. One can certainly be quite racist and yet never shoot, much less kill, anyone. Trying to say that police racism would require shooting or killing someone is a step too far.
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What she is saying is that if the police were racist they would shoot the armed black suspects MORE... not less.
 
Summerwind said:
I did not call anyone racist. I said, and it's factually true, the systems are racist. Until that's fixed, individual racism within the narrow scope of police, vs the broad scope of the entire system from police thru judicial and into penal, is really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Some police are racist, some aren't just like all people. The system is the problem and it's undeniably racist.
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"Systems", are racist? uhhhh....

A system is made up of the people in it. If the people are not racist then the system is not racist.
 
Bodhisattva said:
"Systems", are racist? uhhhh....

A system is made up of the people in it. If the people are not racist then the system is not racist.
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They are made up of the people in it and the people who overly or passively support it. Hence it's all of us. And yes, a system can be racist because as you point out they are made by and supported by people. As a society, our police, judicial, and penal systems prove that we are a racist nation, better than some, but still racist.
 
Summerwind said:
They are made up of the people in it and the people who overly or passively support it. Hence it's all of us. And yes, a system can be racist because as you point out they are made by and supported by people. As a society, our police, judicial, and penal systems prove that we are a racist nation, better than some, but still racist.
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Nope. If blacks are committing more crimes than whites then they will be prosecuted more as well... did you even watch the video? There are studies that back up what she is saying but you don't even need that. Just go work in or visit a heavily black inner city area. You are free to your opinion though but really all you are doing is enabling criminals by blaming the system. This is not like the sexism that goes on in the system were man and woman are both violent but the man gets arrested and she gets a warning... with crime we are talking about real murders, rapes, assaults, etc.
 
Fishking said:
This is where I've kind of settled down on, for the moment. I don't think that police are racist but they do have to deal with the side effects left over systemic racism at some governmental and societal levels.
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Are you a racist as well, since the U.S. condoned slavery at one time and then didn't give blacks civil rights for another 100 years?
 
Bodhisattva said:
What she is saying is that if the police were racist they would shoot the armed black suspects MORE... not less.
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What if the statistics, provided by the police BTW, simply consider blacks to be armed more than whites? Let's say that a suspect, after a search, had a gun or knife on their person or in their vehicle - do you think that weapon is always used to add a "while armed" to the charge?


A recent case involving ND football players comes to mind. If three to five people are in vehicle that contains one handgun - how many of them were armed?

When police approached, officers say they smelled marijuana. Officers then found marijuana and a loaded handgun, according to a Indiana State Police release.

Linebacker Te'Von Coney, 19, safety Max Redfield, 21, wide receiver Kevin Stepherson Jr., 18, cornerback Ashton White, 19, and running back Dexter Williams, 19, were the men arrested.

All five were booked into the Fulton County Jail on a misdemeanor charge for possession of marijuana. Three, Redfield, Stepherson and Willaims were also charged with possession of a handgun without a license.
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Report: 5 Notre Dame football players arrested in Fulton County | WSBT
 
Jetboogieman said:
The justice system has always been racially biased in the US.

The stats prove that.

So, are the police racist?

I don't believe that for a second, the majority of police are racist.

Has the US justice system and catastrophic laws related to the war on drugs decimated the black community, sowed doubt, distrust and anger against law enforcement?

Absolutely.
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See, this is where I disagree.

Stating that the stats PROVE racial bias completely ignores the HUGE possibility, that maybe, just maybe..... crime is a more acceptable way of life in black communities.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Drug laws are the primary driver of the disproportionate punishment of African Americans.

Drug use rates are virtually identical across the board, between whites and blacks and yet:

image-1.png


That's the problem.

Drug laws are dumb as it is, and throughout the war on drugs, it has always disproportionately affected black people even though use rates were the same.

Sentencing was also an issue in cocaine vs. Crack cocaine, even though again, use rates were similar and actually cocaine use among whites was higher than crack cocaine use among blacks:

Screen-Shot-2014-10-15-at-3.09.28-PM.png


789x283xblack-vs-white-drug-sentencing.jpg.pagespeed.ic.gQfyxiP1VH.jpg


This is all well documented and has been known for some time.
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That is all great.

But where is violent crime the highest?

In black communities, correct?

And because of this, are police thereby assigned to sections of black neighborhoods at greater numbers because of this?

Yes?

Which means black people have a disproportionate chance of being contacted by police because there are more police assigned to those areas, because police are responding to the level of crime in the area with appropriate manpower?




See, these are just a few of the factors you have to take into consideration when making these dumb claims that "the system is racist".
 
Summerwind said:
Don't know, didn't watch it, don't need to in order to have the facts on the matter. The facts are as I stated them.
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ROFL.

Care to explain what is "systematically racist" about "our system"???
 
Summerwind said:
There are all manner of studies that prove that non-whites are stopped more often, cited more often, convicted more often, and jailed for longer than there white comparisons. There are so many of these studies, as well as all the reports from the DoJ on specific areas of recent unrest.... Sometimes asking for proof is a legitimate request. In this case it really isn't. I have no doubt that you don't even need google to solve this for yourself, just use the search bar in the upper right hand corner of this site.
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AKA.... It just is... you are not allowed to question it.


Sorry, but I do question these things... because they never seem to take all the factors into consideration.
 
Summerwind said:
I did not call anyone racist. I said, and it's factually true, the systems are racist. Until that's fixed, individual racism within the narrow scope of police, vs the broad scope of the entire system from police thru judicial and into penal, is really a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. Some police are racist, some aren't just like all people. The system is the problem and it's undeniably racist.
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What, specifically about the "systems" makes it racist?

You can't claim something is racist without being able to tell me what is racist about it. Specifically tell me what about it is racist.
 
Caine said:
ROFL.

Care to explain what is "systematically racist" about "our system"???
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It is a naive understanding of statistics...
 
Caine said:
What, specifically about the "systems" makes it racist?

You can't claim something is racist without being able to tell me what is racist about it. Specifically tell me what about it is racist.
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I already called her on this... read a couple pages back.
 
Caine said:
See, this is where I disagree.

Stating that the stats PROVE racial bias completely ignores the HUGE possibility, that maybe, just maybe..... crime is a more acceptable way of life in black communities.
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The police kill black suspects at less than twice their per capita level; that is, blacks make up 13% of the population, but comprise about 25% of those killed by police https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...han-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

However, according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-white-offenders-more-likely-to-kill-police/, the percentage of LEOs killed by blacks is 43%, more than triple their portion of the population. Thus, LEOs response to a greater than 3x threat per capita is a kill rate less than 2x. So, if anything, LEOs are killing black suspects below their statistical threat level.
 
Citizen.Seven said:
The police kill black suspects at less than twice their per capita level; that is, blacks make up 13% of the population, but comprise about 25% of those killed by police https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...han-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

However, according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-white-offenders-more-likely-to-kill-police/, the percentage of LEOs killed by blacks is 43%, more than triple their portion of the population. Thus, LEOs response to a greater than 3x threat per capita is a kill rate less than 2x. So, if anything, LEOs are killing black suspects below their statistical threat level.
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That is a good point.

But the naysayers are stating that killings on either side are only one way of looking at racism in the justice system, and claim that a disparity in outcomes in criminal prosecution and arrest is proof of racism.... .. yet refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, blacks commit crime at a much higher rate than whites.
 
Caine said:
That is a good point.

But the naysayers are stating that killings on either side are only one way of looking at racism in the justice system, and claim that a disparity in outcomes in criminal prosecution and arrest is proof of racism.... .. yet refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, blacks commit crime at a much higher rate than whites.
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There's no "maybe" about it. It is a statistical fact. For some reason, in the lib brain, it is racist to acknowledge facts. :doh
 
JC Callender said:
Are you a racist as well, since the U.S. condoned slavery at one time and then didn't give blacks civil rights for another 100 years?
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I'm not the U.S. so I'm not sure what that has to do with me.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The justice system has always been racially biased in the US.

The stats prove that.

So, are the police racist?

I don't believe that for a second, the majority of police are racist.

Has the US justice system and catastrophic laws related to the war on drugs decimated the black community, sowed doubt, distrust and anger against law enforcement?

Absolutely.
Click to expand...

I think there is a lot of truth in that, which is why attacking the police is so counterproductive. The police are simply the enforcement arm. If the laws are bad, change the laws; if the system is bad, change the system. Blaming the police and leaving the laws and the system untouched will only further harm the black community.
 
Citizen.Seven said:
The police kill black suspects at less than twice their per capita level; that is, blacks make up 13% of the population, but comprise about 25% of those killed by police https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...han-black-people-killed-by-police-yes-but-no/

However, according to https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-white-offenders-more-likely-to-kill-police/, the percentage of LEOs killed by blacks is 43%, more than triple their portion of the population. Thus, LEOs response to a greater than 3x threat per capita is a kill rate less than 2x. So, if anything, LEOs are killing black suspects below their statistical threat level.
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Then there is this which goes along with the OP.

Excon said:
Police shoot more white folks in sheer numbers than they do blacks. If all things were equal, that is what should be expected.

If broken down by racial proportions, the numbers then reflect that the Police kill disproportionately more blacks than whites.
But the problem with that stat is that not all members of a race interact with police on a criminal level, so the whole number of a race can not be used for comparative purposes.
The numbers need to be broken down further to only those who interact with them.
When that is done it becomes clear that whites are shot more times than blacks are.


Whether officers, veterans or civilians, the subjects consistently hesitated longer before firing at black suspects and were much more likely to mistakenly shoot an unarmed white suspect, the researchers found. And when they failed to fire at an armed suspect — a potentially fatal mistake — the suspect was about five times more likely to be black than white. The study’s 36 police officers were the lone exception in failing to fire: The suspect’s race wasn’t a factor in their decision not to shoot. “The findings were very unexpected given the previous experimental research,” said Lois James, an assistant professor who conducted the research.

Are Police Bigoted?
Race and Police Shootings: Are Blacks Targeted More?



Adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown of the U.S. population, he said black men are 3.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men. But also adjusted to take into account the racial breakdown in violent crime, the data actually show that police are less likely to kill black suspects than white ones.

“If one adjusts for the racial disparity in the homicide rate or the rate at which police are feloniously killed, whites are actually more likely to be killed by police than blacks,” said Mr. Moskos, a former Baltimore cop and author of the book “Cop in the Hood.”

“Adjusted for the homicide rate, whites are 1.7 times more likely than blacks die at the hands of police,” he said. “Adjusted for the racial disparity at which police are feloniously killed, whites are 1.3 times more likely than blacks to die at the hands of police.”

Police kill more whites than blacks, but minority deaths generate more outrage

Analysis contradicts widespread views about racial targets


The real racial bias: Cops more willing to shoot whites than blacks, research finds

It’s widely assumed that white police officers are more likely to shoot black suspects as a result of racial bias, but recent research suggests the opposite is true.​

The real racial bias: Cops more willing to shoot whites than blacks, research finds​
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Jetboogieman said:
The justice system has always been racially biased in the US.

The stats prove that.

So, are the police racist?

I don't believe that for a second, the majority of police are racist.

Has the US justice system and catastrophic laws related to the war on drugs decimated the black community, sowed doubt, distrust and anger against law enforcement?

Absolutely.
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Disagree with the second line, the stats merely suggest. Otherwise, good points.


JC Callender said:
Where's your proof? The OP's proof is in the video, and I have to say, it sounds pretty convincing.
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Any articulate person can make almost anything sound convincing. It's still just an opinion. Need to do better than that.
 
Jetboogieman said:
The justice system has always been racially biased in the US.

The stats prove that.
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No they do not. That is an opinion that isn't supported by the facts.


Jetboogieman said:
Drug use rates are virtually identical across the board, between whites and blacks and yet:

That's the problem. [/QUOTE]No. The problem here is that you are trying to use a "self reported" stat in comparison to the hard stats which reflect actual recorded crime and convictions.
The stat based on self reporting isn't a viable metric, especially in comparison to the hard stats.



[QUOTE="Jetboogieman, post: 1066232239, member: 9371"]Sentencing was also an issue in cocaine vs. Crack cocaine, even though again,[/QUOTE]1. No, not - "even though again".
2. Crack was an epidemic that was and still does have a far more negative effect on society.
It is why the consequences were made different.


[HR][/HR]

[QUOTE="Summerwind, post: 1066232290, member: 4208"]Individually, some are some aren't. [U]Systemically our police, judicial, and penal systems are racist.[/U][/QUOTE]
No they are not.


[QUOTE="Summerwind, post: 1066232308, member: 4208"]Don't know, didn't watch it, don't need to in order to have the facts on the matter. The facts are as I stated them.[/QUOTE]No, you didn't state the facts.
You stated an opinion.
An opinion that isn't based in facts.

[QUOTE="Summerwind, post: 1066232353, member: 4208"]There are all manner of studies that prove that non-whites are stopped more often, cited more often, convicted more often, and jailed for longer than there white comparisons. There are so many of these studies, as well as all the reports from the DoJ on specific areas of recent unrest.... Sometimes asking for proof is a legitimate request. In this case it really isn't. I have no doubt that you don't even need google to solve this for yourself, just use the search bar in the upper right hand corner of this site.[/QUOTE]You have no "proof". You have claims made by studies which do not mean that what was found is caused by racism. That is all.


[QUOTE="Summerwind, post: 1066232545, member: 4208"]I said, and it's factually true, the systems are racist. [/QUOTE]Wrong. The system is not racist.


[QUOTE="Summerwind, post: 1066232545, member: 4208"]The system is the problem [U]and it's undeniably racist[/U].[/QUOTE]Besides being wrong, that is a very stupid comment to make.
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Excon said:
Wrong. The system is not racist.
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Actually, as I showed above and you showed in even more detail, the system is racist: More whites per capita are killed than their threat level would indicate, while fewer blacks are killed with the same caveat. In order to effect equality of outcomes, we would either have to convince more whites to attempt to kill cops, or have LEOs kill more blacks. Of course, I advocate neither solution, but it does spotlight the notion that the entire BLM movement is based on a....let's be kind and call it a "misconception" regarding the relative risk of whites vs blacks interacting with LEOs.
 
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