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Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials say

Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

GhostlyJoe said:
The shooting should not have occurred. We can't allow citizens to be gunned down based on imagined hypotheticals.
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You don't that. All you know is the bits and pieces of what happened and not all the facts. Maybe it was a bad shoot, maybe it wasn't, but you don't have enough information to make that assessment.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

GhostlyJoe said:
Well in this case, a man with no criminal record is dead. That OK because someone's hypothetical daughter could be shot in an imagined scenario. What should be done about this very real use of deadly force on an innocent?
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The police do not know if the man has a criminal record or not, until he is in custody..... and if he refuses commands, he's fair game for anything that follows.

You are blindly prejudiced here!
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Josie said:
Again --- put yourself in the police officers' position and not thinking in hindsight ---- how do you know someone ISN'T armed?
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By that rationale, the cops are legally clear to shoot anyone they damn well please.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Josie said:
That's not a reason to shoot ---- there has to be a threat. Charging at a police officer is a threat, no? i.e. Michael Brown
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Certainly was! Stupid is as stupid does.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Kobie said:
By that rationale, the cops are legally clear to shoot anyone they damn well please.
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Wrong. They have to show that they had a reasonable fear of being harmed.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

GhostlyJoe said:
Hindsight is what investigation is. If we applied the standards you're espousing, you could justify every drive-by shooting in the hood.

Put yourself in the shoes of the unarmed, confused, scared man. Or in the shoes of his grieving family.
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There are so many per day.....it's a tough call....every call is.

GhostlyJoe said:
I've answered all your questions. Answer this. Did the police have to shoot this man in this case?
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We don't know until the final report is written and submitted..........and a determination made by the police shooting review board.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
Certainly was! Stupid is as stupid does.
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The guy attended classes for the mentally disabled.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Kobie said:
The guy attended classes for the mentally disabled.
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Michael Brown?
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

faithful_servant said:
So where do you draw the line between threat and potential threat?? Does the officer have to wait until he sees a gun in the perp's hand before he shoots? That's the problem with the idea of "actual threat", you have to define it terms that can be applied in the second between "reaching for his waistband" and "pulling out his gun".
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Yep!

faithful_servant said:
Without having ALL the facts, it's hard to decide. That's the other part of the problem you're facing - you're making a decision about whether the shooting should have occurred without ALL of the facts. I don't have them, so I'm not qualified to determine what should happen. The fact that he has no criminal record is irrelevant and until conviction, everyone is innocent, so that's irrelevant as well.
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Yes again.

GhostlyJoe said:
And yet, this man had no gun, and the police were in a tank. He didn't have to die. So, what about justice for him and his family? Should the officers face punishment of any kind for killing an innocent man?
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Your comments here are all based on things...after the fact. I submit you have good questions but should refrain from any judgments.

Lutherf said:
You seem to be ignoring the fact that the cops were responding to a call about a suspect you carjacked someone at gunpoint and shot at cops. Yes, they were engaging the wrong guy but their mindset was one of addressing and imminent threat.

There is a big difference in the way cops (or anyone else) responds to the threat of "someone laying on the ground" and "someone was shooting at someone else and is in this neighborhood".

I'm all about de-escalating situations but that's a two way street and requires the participation of the suspect. Cops don't always get that cooperation.

When a cop says, "Hey! Come over here and show me your ID." and your response is, "I don't have to." it's YOU that is escalating the situation, not the cop.
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Agree.

GhostlyJoe said:
The shooting should not have occurred. We can't allow citizens to be gunned down based on imagined hypotheticals.
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Supposition on your part.

GhostlyJoe said:
And yet, they killed the wrong man. So, what does justice look like in this case? Does this guy's life just not matter because someone else did something heinous? Is preserving this man's life just not a priority?
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Depends on many factors, not listed here.

Henrin said:
Yeah? I find that interesting. So when someone asks for something and I refuse I am escalating the situation? Hmmm...
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In a manner of speaking....and not just someone, but a police officer.

Lutherf said:
I wasn't there and haven't even seen pictures of the scene so I can't tell you what else could or should have been done. I can tell you that Monday morning quarterbacking these incidents is a hell of a lot easier than dealing with them in the moment.

My concern when reading your posts was that you completely ignored an important circumstance of the stop and I wanted to clarify the situation for anyone else who might be reading the thread.
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Correct....and thanks for the further clarification.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

GhostlyJoe said:
The dead man had nothing to do with the carjackings. He wasn't responsible. So, I ask again, what does justice look like for the dead man?
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Facts NOT known at the time.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Fledermaus said:
From your article:

The announcement came a day after high-ranking sheriff’s officials met to review the shooting. Sheriff’s officials said Thompson was unarmed but did not follow deputies’ orders when they found him and may have reached for his waistband as he ran toward an armored vehicle. Deputies used less-lethal weapons as they tried to subdue him, but Thompson was shot when he charged toward them, officials said.

WTH?
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Sounds pretty clear cut to me.

Fledermaus said:
Lets see.... Charge police officers who are using less-then-lethal weapons.....

The less-then-lethal weapons DID NOT STOP HIM.
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Mr. Ghostly is obviously incensed over this and has developed his own narrative to explain it to his liking.

Lutherf said:
At this point it looks like the guy was the victim of multiple misunderstandings. From what's been posted it seems that the cops went to great lengths to NOT kill him but ended up doing so when he, also not understanding the situation, did something that was considered threatening.
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Exactly.

Josie said:
No, not every shooting could be justified. You have to prove that you had a reasonable fear for your life.
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Or the life of other innocent people in the area. ;) Not just the police.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

gdgyva said:
sorry...but hell no

we cant get officers to sign up now

you want to change the protocol to where their safety isnt PRIORITY # ONE?

do you realize what you are going to end up with as far as LE officers?

guys who would have been comfortable in the old west right along with Wyatt Earp

that is not the type of guys i want roaming our streets

you better rethink your position
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That is my take.

GhostlyJoe said:
Of course charging an officer is a threat. I agree. Although I still question the use of deadly force against an unarmed suspect, even if he's charging directly at an officer on foot. But I certainly recognize that sometimes deadly force is necessary. Should be a last resort.
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And as I read the account of this......it was a Last Resort.

GhostlyJoe said:
Citizens' safety is priority No. 1. Otherwise, why have police? This man's life matters, too.
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Sure it does.
 
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Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

gdgyva said:
and listening to and obeying an officer of the law is common sense

he wouldnt listen

they tried non lethal force....it didnt work

he continued an aggressive charge....

lights out....the party's over

when an officer says get the **** down, and stay down....they usually mean it

not such a hard thing to understand and obey
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Unless a person is deaf, dumb or mentally incapacitated.....none of which the police surmised from this incident.

Josie said:
But - again - many times the officers DON'T KNOW if the person is armed or unarmed. If you're a police officer and someone is charging right at you, you have to make a split-second decision on what to do. You cannot pause time and take in your surroundings, consider the mental state of the person coming at you, looking around their body for signs of a weapon, etc. If you DO hesitate, you very likely will be dead.
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And many do get dead, because they hesitated.

GhostlyJoe said:
They were in a tank. He was a mentally handicapped man who was terrified. He did nothing to deserve execution, and he was in no way a deadly threat to those officers.

Do you honestly believe he could have harmed those officers?

"Obey or die" is the motto of an abusive police state, not a fee country.
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Once again...not a tank!!!!

Once again...after the fact....the police did not know he had mental problems.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

GhostlyJoe said:
No one said being a police officer is easy. It's by it's very nature a dangerous job. That's why police officers are revered and recognized as heroic, because they choose to put their safety in jeopardy for the benefit of their society. Putting on the uniform is accepting a certain amount of personal risk. If officers' safety is given absolute preference over the rights of citizens, then we're not a free country. If the situation is ambiguous, they need to err on the side of not killing or find a new profession.
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You started this post off pretty well, but then it deteriorated.

See post #49
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

faithful_servant said:
You don't that. All you know is the bits and pieces of what happened and not all the facts. Maybe it was a bad shoot, maybe it wasn't, but you don't have enough information to make that assessment.
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Correct.

Kobie said:
By that rationale, the cops are legally clear to shoot anyone they damn well please.
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Within narrow parameters....yes.

Kobie said:
The guy attended classes for the mentally disabled.
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So? What has this AFTER the FACT tidbit, have to do with what happened on the street?
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
So? What has this AFTER the FACT tidbit, have to do with what happened on the street?
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So, what you should have posted was "stupid is as stupid does, and if you happen to be mentally disabled and get shot by the cops because you're not in control of your faculties, well, tough nuggets."
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Kobie said:
So, what you should have posted was "stupid is as stupid does, and if you happen to be mentally disabled and get shot by the cops because you're not in control of your faculties, well, tough nuggets."
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Yes, I should have and you are right! Thanks for clarifying the obvious. ;)

Because when there is a threat....and the cops have the safety of the public at large to contend with, they have no way of knowing, nor will they jeopardize their safety, or the general public's safety..

What many forget, or don't know, is that cops are charged with the responsibility of protecting the citizens at large and not an individual.

If you have trouble with that, you need to read up on the Calif. Penal Code.
 
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Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
Yes, I should have and you are right! Thanks for clarifying the obvious. ;)

Because when there is a threat....and the cops have the safety of the public at large to contend with, they have no way of knowing.
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Glad to see that you are just fine with shooting the mentally disabled.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
Facts NOT in evidence! Seems to me that you have an anti-police agenda here.
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When they roll up in a tank and shoot the wrong guy, yes, I'm against that.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
All that is already in place! The idea here is for the officer to finish his/her shift and go home to their family. Giving the suspect the edge is just plain stupid. People are supposed to obey the lawful commands of the police...it's quite simple.

You are also glossing over the threat to the public....not just the police.

If some kid is riding by on their bike and gets accosted by said perp, things can go sideways real quick.

How much police experience and training do you have?
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He's wasn't a perp; he wasn't a danger to anyone. I submit that "police training" is part of the problem. Hence why many states are instituting retraining.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

Lutherf said:
His position is that cops are expendable while criminals deserve the benefit of the doubt. It's a common theme these days.
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He wasn't a criminal. He was a citizen.
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

TheGoverness said:
If he really did charge at the officers, then what the **** did he expect was going to happen?
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He just wanted a hug :roll:
 
Re: Man shot to death by L.A. County deputy was not a carjacking suspect, officials s

MickeyW said:
I think you have created a good narrative here.....devoid of many facts.



Having a weapon that is perceived to be legal, does not make it so.
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So now you oppose the 2nd Amendement?
 
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