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Consumer Fraud, From Psychics to Preachers

calamity

calamity

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What exactly defines consumer fraud? Preachers can promise all sorts of stuff on the pretense that God will deliver. And, psychics...well, they can say pretty much what they want too. So, one wonders, where is that line for fraud drawn.

Here's a good article detailing the activities of one psychic who justice officials claim has crossed the line.

...it would be hard to find another case of consumer fraud that has hurt more people.

Since the alleged mail fraud started around 20 years ago, a laundry list of government agencies across the globe -- including the U.S. Department of Justice, British authorities, Canadian fraud investigators and Australian consumer protection officials -- have attempted to put an end to the scheme.

But somehow, it has raged on for decades...

While there is no way to know just how many people have been duped by the scheme, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service alleges that the operation (which has included additional letters sent out by Guerin, her psychic sidekick) has claimed more than 1.4 million victims in the United States alone.

Chapter One: Who is behind one of the biggest scams in history?
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But, where exactly is the crime?
 
"In what appear to be handwritten notes signed by Duval, she tells them they could win the lottery, recover from ailments or avoid terrible misfortune. All they need to do is pay a small sum -- often around $40 -- to receive her guidance, lucky numbers and special talismans like a Five Forces Stone or a Vibratory Crystal."

Fraud.
 
zyzygy said:
"In what appear to be handwritten notes signed by Duval, she tells them they could win the lottery, recover from ailments or avoid terrible misfortune. All they need to do is pay a small sum -- often around $40 -- to receive her guidance, lucky numbers and special talismans like a Five Forces Stone or a Vibratory Crystal."

Fraud.
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I sounds unethical, but with the amount of money they are bringing in,
I suspect they had advice from lawyers about how to stay inside the law.
 
zyzygy said:
"In what appear to be handwritten notes signed by Duval, she tells them they could win the lottery, recover from ailments or avoid terrible misfortune. All they need to do is pay a small sum -- often around $40 -- to receive her guidance, lucky numbers and special talismans like a Five Forces Stone or a Vibratory Crystal."

Fraud.
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Not if she sends them "her guidance, lucky numbers and special talismans like a Five Forces Stone or a Vibratory Crystal." IMO, it's only fraud if she doesn't send them anything.
 
calamity said:
Not if she sends them "her guidance, lucky numbers and special talismans like a Five Forces Stone or a Vibratory Crystal." IMO, it's only fraud if she doesn't send them anything.
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Fair enough. Moral fraud. Some people will do anything for money.
 
longview said:
I sounds unethical, but with the amount of money they are bringing in,
I suspect they had advice from lawyers about how to stay inside the law.
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Yeah, my thoughts are that you can solicit money from people on the premise of providing them with some mumbo jumbo as long as you actually do provide them with the mumbo jumbo. Laws about promising to cure an illness without a medical license and/or following FDA guidelines however may have been broken. But, it looks like the DOJ is after her for mail fraud. I just don't see it, as long as she sends her suckers stuff.
 
calamity said:
What exactly defines consumer fraud? Preachers can promise all sorts of stuff on the pretense that God will deliver. And, psychics...well, they can say pretty much what they want too. So, one wonders, where is that line for fraud drawn.

Here's a good article detailing the activities of one psychic who justice officials claim has crossed the line.



But, where exactly is the crime?
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As much as I don't like mega-pastors and psychics, no one is forcing you to give them money. Most people who go to psychics don't believe in that gibberish anyway, they just do it for fun. I went to one once out of curiosity.

As far as mega-Church's go, I think some of these guys are con men but all in all I respect the spiritual healing and health most Church's provide to their members, despite my atheism. It's not like these leaders don't believe in their own product themselves, so any "fraud" to me seems unintentional nor with malice. I've seen some of my good friends turn their lives around through faith for the better and I can't help but respect that despite my disagreement with it.
 
Caveat Emptor still applies, all these years later. Is there an app for that? No, there is not. ;)
 
akrunner88 said:
As much as I don't like mega-pastors and psychics, no one is forcing you to give them money. Most people who go to psychics don't believe in that gibberish anyway, they just do it for fun. I went to one once out of curiosity.

As far as mega-Church's go, I think some of these guys are con men but all in all I respect the spiritual healing and health most Church's provide to their members, despite my atheism. It's not like these leaders don't believe in their own product themselves, so any "fraud" to me seems unintentional nor with malice. I've seen some of my good friends turn their lives around through faith for the better and I can't help but respect that despite my disagreement with it.
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Sure.

If we want to start picking on those taking advantage of the gullible and call it fraud, I can think of several very expensive college degrees which will never pay off in the real world that can be added to the list.
 
calamity said:
Sure.

If we want to start picking on those taking advantage of the gullible and call it fraud, I can think of several very expensive college degrees which will never pay off in the real world that can be added to the list.
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As well as the Government claiming to give you something...for free!
 
longview said:
As well as the Government claiming to give you something...for free!
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Politicians are bigger fraudsters than pastors and psychics combined. I've never seen anyone come close to a politician when it comes to promising crap that they have no intention of ever delivering.
 
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