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Why black youth don't get respect

Lutherf

Lutherf

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The DC cops released video of the assault that happened at a McDonalds and involved a Marine who received a Bronze Star for his actions in Fallujah. Granted, the video just shows part of what happened and for all we know the Marine was mouthing off to the kids before anything went down. It isn't the assault that causes people to look at a 15 year old black kid and think "thug".

The reason these kids don't get any respect doesn't have anything to do with them cold cocking the guy. It has nothing to do with them stealing his wallet. It has nothing to do with them stomping him while he's down. It actually has nothing to do with the kids at all...at least not directly.

The reason they don't get any respect is because not before, not during and not after the assault did anyone in the area step in to help the guy that got hit.

If NOBODY in that area cared about the guy getting his ass kicked then why the hell should anybody care about them? If nobody in that area has the self respect to at least try to put a stop to this kind of behavior then why should anybody else respect them?

When the "Black Lives Matter" jokers start stepping in to stop a beat down and haul the little bastards in to the cops by their earlobes maybe then they'll start getting that respect they're looking for.

D.C. police release video of assault on decorated Marine vet
 
Those guys in Oregon are the reason I don't respect threads made my middle age goofy white guys :)
 
The bystander effect is an unfortunate aspect of human behavior that can be overcome with just a bit of courage and conviction. And it is an effect that affects all races. I am curious. Should white people as a whole not expect to be respected if some white people don't render aid when needed? Or does that only apply to black people?
 
Lutherf said:
The DC cops released video of the assault that happened at a McDonalds and involved a Marine who received a Bronze Star for his actions in Fallujah. Granted, the video just shows part of what happened and for all we know the Marine was mouthing off to the kids before anything went down. It isn't the assault that causes people to look at a 15 year old black kid and think "thug".

The reason these kids don't get any respect doesn't have anything to do with them cold cocking the guy. It has nothing to do with them stealing his wallet. It has nothing to do with them stomping him while he's down. It actually has nothing to do with the kids at all...at least not directly.

The reason they don't get any respect is because not before, not during and not after the assault did anyone in the area step in to help the guy that got hit.

If NOBODY in that area cared about the guy getting his ass kicked then why the hell should anybody care about them? If nobody in that area has the self respect to at least try to put a stop to this kind of behavior then why should anybody else respect them?

When the "Black Lives Matter" jokers start stepping in to stop a beat down and haul the little bastards in to the cops by their earlobes maybe then they'll start getting that respect they're looking for.

D.C. police release video of assault on decorated Marine vet
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Or . . . people are in a society where they don't want to become a victim of random violence - because it's so prevalent and against human nature to do so - so they don't get involved.

But I don't see anybody who would have been able TO help. Do what exactly? He's down for a few moments - very briefly - and gets up and walks into the restaurant. Call the cops - that's the necessary activity, there.

Now if you're capable of stepping in and breaking up a fight - then do so. And when people are capable, this is what they tend to do. Many people aren't capable, though. I'm not - and thus I wouldn't have been able to step in, either.

This: "for all we know the Marine was mouthing off to the kids before anything went down." - shouldn't matter. As if saying something distasteful is a justifiable reason for an attack? "You called me an asshole - so I'm going to knock you out." Yeah sure... that makes sense, if you're a street thug.

So I see no evidence of 'nobody caring'.

I just see excuses for their behavior and violent decisions (in your post).

So - if black youth behave LIKE THAT and don't get respect - it's because they haven't earned any of it.
 
BrewerBob said:
The bystander effect is an unfortunate aspect of human behavior that can be overcome with just a bit of courage and conviction. And it is an effect that affects all races. I am curious. Should white people as a whole not expect to be respected if some white people don't render aid when needed? Or does that only apply to black people?
Click to expand...

I don't care if you're purpledipink. If you stand there watching someone take a beatdown and don't even have the decency to help them up you have no self respect and deserve none of mine.
 
I'm going to hazard a guess that Luther was looking at this from a larger perspective than just this one incident.


Anyone paying any attention is aware that one of the big problems facing Chicago, with its terrible violent crime and murder rate, is a major lack of cooperation from the neighborhoods where most of this stuff happens.


"No Snitchin'" is widely known to be a problem in minority neighborhoods. It was even parodied in the (black-authored) series The Boondocks.



I've personally spent a lot of time in "da Hood" and you will find all kinds living there... including some pretty decent folks. But it is true that there is a tendency not to talk to the police, and many of the more decent folks are fearful to involve themselves in anyone else's troubles.
 
Lutherf said:
I don't care if you're purpledipink. If you stand there watching someone take a beatdown and don't even have the decency to help them up you have no self respect and deserve none of mine.
Click to expand...

I fully agree with you there. But you then take this incident and use it to explain why black youth as a whole don't get respect, which is nonsense. As a white guy I sure as hell don't want the respect that I receive to be affected by the actions of other white guys.
 
Goshin said:
I'm going to hazard a guess that Luther was looking at this from a larger perspective than just this one incident.


Anyone paying any attention is aware that one of the big problems facing Chicago, with its terrible violent crime and murder rate, is a major lack of cooperation from the neighborhoods where most of this stuff happens.


"No Snitchin'" is widely known to be a problem in minority neighborhoods. It was even parodied in the (black-authored) series The Boondocks.



I've personally spent a lot of time in "da Hood" and you will find all kinds living there... including some pretty decent folks. But it is true that there is a tendency not to talk to the police, and many of the more decent folks are fearful to involve themselves in anyone else's troubles.
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That's exactly right.

There are dirtballs everywhere but it's the tolerance of dirtballs that causes the breakdown in respect.
 
Lutherf said:
The DC cops released video of the assault that happened at a McDonalds and involved a Marine who received a Bronze Star for his actions in Fallujah. Granted, the video just shows part of what happened and for all we know the Marine was mouthing off to the kids before anything went down. It isn't the assault that causes people to look at a 15 year old black kid and think "thug".

The reason these kids don't get any respect doesn't have anything to do with them cold cocking the guy. It has nothing to do with them stealing his wallet. It has nothing to do with them stomping him while he's down. It actually has nothing to do with the kids at all...at least not directly.

The reason they don't get any respect is because not before, not during and not after the assault did anyone in the area step in to help the guy that got hit.

If NOBODY in that area cared about the guy getting his ass kicked then why the hell should anybody care about them? If nobody in that area has the self respect to at least try to put a stop to this kind of behavior then why should anybody else respect them?

When the "Black Lives Matter" jokers start stepping in to stop a beat down and haul the little bastards in to the cops by their earlobes maybe then they'll start getting that respect they're looking for.

D.C. police release video of assault on decorated Marine vet
Click to expand...

I never really thought of it that way but you are spot on. I also think that people don't want to be victims themselves... and it is difficult for some blacks to step in if they know that these thugs know were they live, are not being "black" by helping a white guy, that kind of stuff, but I agree with your premise.
 
BrewerBob said:
I fully agree with you there. But you then take this incident and use it to explain why black youth as a whole don't get respect, which is nonsense. As a white guy I sure as hell don't want the respect that I receive to be affected by the actions of other white guys.
Click to expand...

It's not nonsense.

The kid in the wife beater was there with at least three other kids. Rather than stopping their buddy from committing an assault they helped him and then jumped in to divvy up the spoils. There were also at least a dozen other people in that area that could have done something and instead stood there smoking a cigarette, sipping their soda or otherwise staying conspicuously uninvolved. I don't know about you but when I see that kind of behavior it just SCREAMS to me that those people just flat out don't care about their community. If they don't care then I don't particularly care what ills befall them and I damned sure don't think they deserve a lick of respect.
 
Lutherf said:
If they don't care then I don't particularly care what ills befall them and I damned sure don't think they deserve a lick of respect.
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I thought that was your point. These kids are raised IN an environment where no one cares, and they are taught by that environment, not to care.

So you adding on top of that "Lutherf doesn't care either", seems to be part of the cycle right?

The funny thing about ethics/morality is you get tested, you have to care when it hurts you personally....that's the test. You have to love someone you never even met, not because they treat you with respect, but because they are fellow thinking, emotional humans. I'm not saying I'm perfect on that account either, it sure goes against my instincts, but there it is.
Same thing with prisons, we treat prisoners like failures, rather than an opportunity to help/reform. Sure the worst of the worst are a lost cause, no doubt. But hopefully you know what I mean.
 
Lutherf said:
It's not nonsense.

The kid in the wife beater was there with at least three other kids. Rather than stopping their buddy from committing an assault they helped him and then jumped in to divvy up the spoils. There were also at least a dozen other people in that area that could have done something and instead stood there smoking a cigarette, sipping their soda or otherwise staying conspicuously uninvolved. I don't know about you but when I see that kind of behavior it just SCREAMS to me that those people just flat out don't care about their community. If they don't care then I don't particularly care what ills befall them and I damned sure don't think they deserve a lick of respect.
Click to expand...

I know this is one small example, of what I am not sure, but here it is... I worked as a teacher in a poor white school and gave candy from a box as a reward early in my career. I don't do that any longer for reasons not related to this... well, the poor white kids would take a piece, calm or excited, but not pushy or greedy. I then worked in a poor black school and on the first day I gave candy from the box I was literally rushed by the entire class, knocking over chairs and pushing desksout of the way, grabbing as much as they could get and then kids from another class came running in grabbing and pushing. I just dropped the box and backed away AMAZED at the out of control frenzy that some ****ing pieces of candy sent them into.

It is a community thing... how they are raised. Nobody cares. Everybody for themselves... after a year the kids could tell that I cared and the way that they paid me back was to not **** with my car. I was the only teacher (about 11 0r 12 of us) that did not have his car keyed, window broken, tire slashed, etc. I asked them why and they said because I was cool. I could not figure out how to take it further and left at the end of that year.
 
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Mach said:
I thought that was your point. These kids are raised IN an environment where no one cares, and they are taught by that environment, not to care.

So you adding on top of that "Lutherf doesn't care either", seems to be part of the cycle right?

The funny thing about ethics/morality is you get tested, you have to care when it hurts you personally....that's the test. You have to love someone you never even met, not because they treat you with respect, but because they are fellow thinking, emotional humans. I'm not saying I'm perfect on that account either, it sure goes against my instincts, but there it is.
Same thing with prisons, we treat prisoners like failures, rather than an opportunity to help/reform. Sure the worst of the worst are a lost cause, no doubt. But hopefully you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't waste my time posting this if I didn't care.

The point is that being respectful of and to your surroundings and the people in your area begets respect. Not being respectful and then demanding respect does not engender respect.
 
Mach said:
I thought that was your point. These kids are raised IN an environment where no one cares, and they are taught by that environment, not to care.

So you adding on top of that "Lutherf doesn't care either", seems to be part of the cycle right?

The funny thing about ethics/morality is you get tested, you have to care when it hurts you personally....that's the test. You have to love someone you never even met, not because they treat you with respect, but because they are fellow thinking, emotional humans. I'm not saying I'm perfect on that account either, it sure goes against my instincts, but there it is.
Same thing with prisons, we treat prisoners like failures, rather than an opportunity to help/reform. Sure the worst of the worst are a lost cause, no doubt. But hopefully you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

Good point... the environment that they are raised in is often hell. I am not excusing anything... just understanding why it happens...
 
BrewerBob said:
The bystander effect is an unfortunate aspect of human behavior that can be overcome with just a bit of courage and conviction. And it is an effect that affects all races. I am curious. Should white people as a whole not expect to be respected if some white people don't render aid when needed? Or does that only apply to black people?
Click to expand...

Race ethnicity etc doesn't matter. there are some vids on youtube of people in need. I recall one of a man getting hit by a car and people crossing actually stepped over him but didn't stop to even help him up or even ask if he was ok.
Now in a situation where you fear that you will be attacked if you try to help I can understand apprehension but damn what a callous society it seems sometimes.
 
Lutherf said:
It's not nonsense.

The kid in the wife beater was there with at least three other kids. Rather than stopping their buddy from committing an assault they helped him and then jumped in to divvy up the spoils. There were also at least a dozen other people in that area that could have done something and instead stood there smoking a cigarette, sipping their soda or otherwise staying conspicuously uninvolved. I don't know about you but when I see that kind of behavior it just SCREAMS to me that those people just flat out don't care about their community. If they don't care then I don't particularly care what ills befall them and I damned sure don't think they deserve a lick of respect.
Click to expand...

Are you intentionally ignoring what I am saying or are just not making the connection. I am not excusing the people in that video. I condemn them as you do. But you take the behavior of the people in that video and use it to cast judgement on black youth as a whole when I am pretty certain that you wouldn't cast judgement on white youths as a whole if I posted a video of white teens being violent and other white people not stopping them. That would only be evidence that the particular white people in that video didn't act appropriately.
 
SocialD said:
Race ethnicity etc doesn't matter. there are some vids on youtube of people in need. I recall one of a man getting hit by a car and people crossing actually stepped over him but didn't stop to even help him up or even ask if he was ok.
Now in a situation where you fear that you will be attacked if you try to help I can understand apprehension but damn what a callous society it seems sometimes.
Click to expand...

I have watched many of those videos. In addition to the real surveillance videos of such things, there are also a lot of social experiments in which they set up controlled situations to see how people react. Here is one of most people not helping when a kid is being abducted.

 
Bodhisattva said:
I know this is one small example, of what I am not sure, but here it is... I worked as a teacher in a poor white school and gave candy from a box as a reward early in my career. I don't do that any longer for reasons not related to this... well, the poor white kids would take a piece, calm or excited, but not pushy or greedy. I then worked in a poor black school and on the first day I gave candy from the box I was literally rushed by the entire class, knocking over chairs and pushing desksout of the way, grabbing as much as they could get and then kids from another class came running in grabbing and pushing. I just dropped the box and backed away AMAZED at the out of control frenzy that some ****ing pieces of candy sent them into.

It is a community thing... how they are raised. Nobody cares. Everybody for themselves... after a year the kids could tell that I cared and the way that they paid me back was to not **** with my car. I was the only teacher (about 11 0r 12 of us) that did not have his car keyed, window broken, tire slashed, etc. I asked them why and they said because I was cool. I could not figure out how to take it further and left at the end of that year.
Click to expand...

I understand. It's also important to note that the kind of behavior you describe is not directly due to race though, indirectly, race can certainly play a part.

What I see happening in this country is that the politicization of race since the civil rights era has created an environment where a whole lot of blacks have become convinced that they really are second class citizens. I mean if politicians from the president on down are telling you that you have no chance in life because of your race and the schools are focused as much on equalizing demographics as they are on education and your civic leaders have discovered that the more they can get politicians to pander to them the more money they make you're going to get quite the ear full telling you how bad you have it and how screwed you are.

I freely admit that it's a tough cycle to stop. It's going to require one hell of a paradigm shift. That change, however, has to come from inside the community.
 
Lutherf said:
I understand. It's also important to note that the kind of behavior you describe is not directly due to race though, indirectly, race can certainly play a part.

What I see happening in this country is that the politicization of race since the civil rights era has created an environment where a whole lot of blacks have become convinced that they really are second class citizens. I mean if politicians from the president on down are telling you that you have no chance in life because of your race and the schools are focused as much on equalizing demographics as they are on education and your civic leaders have discovered that the more they can get politicians to pander to them the more money they make you're going to get quite the ear full telling you how bad you have it and how screwed you are.

I freely admit that it's a tough cycle to stop. It's going to require one hell of a paradigm shift. That change, however, has to come from inside the community.
Click to expand...

Agreed... salvation from within is a Biblical and accurate mindset in this case.
 
Lutherf said:
I wouldn't waste my time posting this if I didn't care.
The point is that being respectful of and to your surroundings and the people in your area begets respect. Not being respectful and then demanding respect does not engender respect.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that's the trick is that it's very hard for us to use our worldview, and apply it from positions like this.
Their worldview was shaped by their environment, not yours. Respect in the way you describe (from that perspective) seems absurd. Respect in their view may be more of fear/deference, not "mutual civilized respect".

So no, only demanding this sort of respect, earns this sort of respect.
Being respectful the way you describe instead, means you lose respect, it's weakness.

I'm not saying I am hardcore into this or whatever, I had just read up on someone in the education forums (a black educator raised in Harlem in a violent area), so it was fresh on my mind. Raised where no one cares, you simply are not taught to care. You may break free from that or figure it out, but the odds are against it...I think is the point that's sometimes made.

In any case, disturbing video.
 
a351 said:
Those guys in Oregon are the reason I don't respect threads made my middle age goofy white guys :)
Click to expand...

Your comment would deserve more respect if it were directed at the subject of the thread, instead of being a personal insult directed at the poster who started it. You disagree with the view expressed, so you attack the person who expressed it. Weak stuff.
 
BrewerBob said:
Are you intentionally ignoring what I am saying or are just not making the connection. I am not excusing the people in that video. I condemn them as you do. But you take the behavior of the people in that video and use it to cast judgement on black youth as a whole when I am pretty certain that you wouldn't cast judgement on white youths as a whole if I posted a video of white teens being violent and other white people not stopping them. That would only be evidence that the particular white people in that video didn't act appropriately.
Click to expand...

I'm ignoring the part about you assuming I'd react differently if they were white kids.
 
Lutherf said:
I don't care if you're purpledipink. If you stand there watching someone take a beatdown and don't even have the decency to help them up you have no self respect and deserve none of mine.
Click to expand...

Well now, there's two arguments there. I once saw a young tough punch a woman [his girlfriend] while she was sitting in the driver's seat, he was outside the car with the door open. I rolled up as I dialed 911, gave my name, address, current location and closed by saying "I am placing myself in harm's way."
I exited my vehicle and said "OK you heard that, my gang is on the way and they have guns. You can walk away from this if you stand down now and back off....but I want you to know I really, I mean really want you to take that swing." He backed off.

When the cops arrived the female member took me aside and gave me **** from one end to the other, from risking making the situation worse to encountering a guy with a knife or a gun. All l I could say was if there were more guys like me, there would be less like him." She said as far as she was concerned we were the same.

To your point, it's clear everyone there saw nothing. And that's where I'm with you. We should at least get the cops rolling, or enlist the aid of others, but I'm too old to take on **** heads anymore
 
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Lutherf said:
It's not nonsense.

The kid in the wife beater was there with at least three other kids. Rather than stopping their buddy from committing an assault they helped him and then jumped in to divvy up the spoils. There were also at least a dozen other people in that area that could have done something and instead stood there smoking a cigarette, sipping their soda or otherwise staying conspicuously uninvolved. I don't know about you but when I see that kind of behavior it just SCREAMS to me that those people just flat out don't care about their community. If they don't care then I don't particularly care what ills befall them and I damned sure don't think they deserve a lick of respect.
Click to expand...

So you don't care about victims of crimes ... because you think a few people should have behaved differently?
 
Lutherf said:
I wouldn't waste my time posting this if I didn't care.

The point is that being respectful of and to your surroundings and the people in your area begets respect. Not being respectful and then demanding respect does not engender respect.
Click to expand...

Low-life thugs can demand all they want, and they will never get any respect from me. There are good reasons why illegitimacy was traditionally stigmatized, and it was not by accident that making evil characters bastards was a convention in Elizabethan literature. Boys who are raised without fathers are much more prone to go astray than ones raised by both parents. When about 70% of blacks are illegitimate, it is completely predictable that they would commit such a grossly disproportionate share of violent crimes. It is the foolish, negligent people who chose to have unprotected sex outside marriage who are responsible for the resulting illegitimate births--no one else.
 
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