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Do black people want a different standard of justice?

ataturk said:
Utterly disgusting Yo7yu can see the blacks rejopicing that a black man can murder a white woman and get away with it.

Worse than them are teh white race traitors. teh leftisst and self haters who delight in white women being raped and murdered.
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You make me proud to be a race traitor.

 
Paschendale said:
It also shows the bizarre contradiction how this country claims to be very distrustful of government, afraid of jack-booted thugs coming for them, and yet constantly supports the actual agents of that government when they kill citizens. The government is apparently really scary when it might come from far away and kill you, but when it lives in your neighborhood and does kill you (or rather, kill someone you could consider "them" and not "us"), then it's not frightening at all. I don't get it.
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Interesting, bizarre contradiction, maybe, perhaps. Trust in government, the federal government is at 20% per Pew Research, 19% per Gallup. Now trust in state government is at 62% again per Gallup and local government trust is at 72%.

Trust in Government | Gallup Historical Trends

Just looking at those figures it isn’t all that bizarre. If one equates local police departments to local government, then people trust them. But not organizations like the FBI, NSA etc, those are federal. It is the federal government that is equated to jackbooted thugs, not the local PD’s. The local PD’s are your neighbors and friends for the most part.

It was federal agents that threatened Clive Bundy, not the local PD. In Ferguson it is the local and state PD’s not federal.
 
Perotista said:
Interesting, bizarre contradiction, maybe, perhaps. Trust in government, the federal government is at 20% per Pew Research, 19% per Gallup. Now trust in state government is at 62% again per Gallup and local government trust is at 72%.

Trust in Government | Gallup Historical Trends

Just looking at those figures it isn’t all that bizarre. If one equates local police departments to local government, then people trust them. But not organizations like the FBI, NSA etc, those are federal. It is the federal government that is equated to jackbooted thugs, not the local PD’s. The local PD’s are your neighbors and friends for the most part.

It was federal agents that threatened Clive Bundy, not the local PD. In Ferguson it is the local and state PD’s not federal.
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So despite the fact that the federal cops don't kill citizens, and the local and state cops do, people still trust the local and state government authority more. That's kind of insane. It is bizarre. It's not uncommon, but it makes no sense. The supposed independent, freedom-loving, anti-government mentality that some Americans have seems to crumble into abject submission so long as the government is physically close by.

clownboy said:
That is more about location and conditions than race.
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No, it absolutely has to do with race. The significantly higher use of violence by police against blacks is just as pronounced with middle class victims as it is with lower class, and it doesn't seem to matter much based on location. Some states go the extra mile to protect police from the consequences of killing black Americans, but the baseline is still that they are killed by police in similar locations and situations much more.
 
Paschendale said:
So despite the fact that the federal cops don't kill citizens, and the local and state cops do, people still trust the local and state government authority more. That's kind of insane. It is bizarre. It's not uncommon, but it makes no sense. The supposed independent, freedom-loving, anti-government mentality that some Americans have seems to crumble into abject submission so long as the government is physically close by.



No, it absolutely has to do with race. The significantly higher use of violence by police against blacks is just as pronounced with middle class victims as it is with lower class, and it doesn't seem to matter much based on location. Some states go the extra mile to protect police from the consequences of killing black Americans, but the baseline is still that they are killed by police in similar locations and situations much more.
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Government is government, nothing about its size changes that detail.
 
why do black men rape white women at vastly times more than the other way around?

Why do 'liberals' cover it up?
 
Paschendale said:
So despite the fact that the federal cops don't kill citizens, and the local and state cops do, people still trust the local and state government authority more. That's kind of insane. It is bizarre. It's not uncommon, but it makes no sense. The supposed independent, freedom-loving, anti-government mentality that some Americans have seems to crumble into abject submission so long as the government is physically close by.



No, it absolutely has to do with race. The significantly higher use of violence by police against blacks is just as pronounced with middle class victims as it is with lower class, and it doesn't seem to matter much based on location. Some states go the extra mile to protect police from the consequences of killing black Americans, but the baseline is still that they are killed by police in similar locations and situations much more.
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Perhaps. Now I never have lived in a big city so I can't equate to that. It is my understanding Ferguson is part of St. Louis with all the problems city life involves. Even so, watching all the burning and looting going on it is very hard to have any sympathy for those causing it all. Seems they have very little respect for their own homes, stores, family, neighbors and friends or they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

If I thought a wrong was done to me or my friends, family, neighbors, I would be attacking the ones who did it. Not my friends, family and neighbors.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps. Now I never have lived in a big city so I can't equate to that. It is my understanding Ferguson is part of St. Louis with all the problems city life involves. Even so, watching all the burning and looting going on it is very hard to have any sympathy for those causing it all. Seems they have very little respect for their own homes, stores, family, neighbors and friends or they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

If I thought a wrong was done to me or my friends, family, neighbors, I would be attacking the ones who did it. Not my friends, family and neighbors.
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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

:agree: The rioters in Ferguson attacked their own people who ran businesses! WTH? The Chinese businessmen on rooftops with rifles defended their businesses during the Rodney King aftermath. They weren't much messed with, as I recall. Easier pickings elsewhere for looting, I guess! :thumbdown:
 
polgara said:
Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

:agree: The rioters in Ferguson attacked their own people who ran businesses! WTH? The Chinese businessmen on rooftops with rifles defended their businesses during the Rodney King aftermath. They weren't much messed with, as I recall. Easier pickings elsewhere for looting, I guess! :thumbdown:
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Howdy Pol, I never really understood it. I'm mad at A because A did me wrong so I am going to destroy my house, business and my friends and families houses and businesses. It like putting a gun to your own head and say, stop or I'll shoot myself.

Seems some are just using this whole thing as an excuse to loot and get stuff for themselves. I wonder if half of them even know who the kid was.
 
Perotista said:
Howdy Pol, I never really understood it. I'm mad at A because A did me wrong so I am going to destroy my house, business and my friends and families houses and businesses. It like putting a gun to your own head and say, stop or I'll shoot myself.

Seems some are just using this whole thing as an excuse to loot and get stuff for themselves. I wonder if half of them even know who the kid was.
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Lack of education. Lack of morals. Too much anger. Lack of responsibility.
 
Perotista said:
Interesting, bizarre contradiction, maybe, perhaps. Trust in government, the federal government is at 20% per Pew Research, 19% per Gallup. Now trust in state government is at 62% again per Gallup and local government trust is at 72%.

Trust in Government | Gallup Historical Trends

Just looking at those figures it isn’t all that bizarre. If one equates local police departments to local government, then people trust them. But not organizations like the FBI, NSA etc, those are federal. It is the federal government that is equated to jackbooted thugs, not the local PD’s. The local PD’s are your neighbors and friends for the most part.

It was federal agents that threatened Clive Bundy, not the local PD. In Ferguson it is the local and state PD’s not federal.
Click to expand...

I agree. In fact, if there ever were a good reason for more power in the State and local government hands, this would be it.
 
I think a whole lot of criminals caught and convicted want a different standard of justice.
 
clownboy said:
I think a whole lot of criminals caught and convicted want a different standard of justice.
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Like I've heard said, and which does seem to be the case, you will rarely find anyone in prison who admits that they are guilty. It seems to be a characteristic of most criminals to be unable to look at themselves honestly, and admit when they've screwed up, which is probably one of the reasons they end up there in the first place.

The story often seems to be "I was framed", "They got the wrong guy", "My buddy talked me into it", but rarely "Yeah, I screwed up".
 
Bodhisattva said:
Lack of education. Lack of morals. Too much anger. Lack of responsibility.
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I don't know, but just watching TV there is definitely too much anger, perhaps justified or not. Lack of responsibility, yes or they would be burning and looting their own stores and homes. Lack of morals, I don't know, don't live there. But it fits the the results, the burning and looting. Lack of Education, probably. How many dropped out of school and made bad decisions in their life, another question that goes unanswered.
 
eohrnberger said:
I agree. In fact, if there ever were a good reason for more power in the State and local government hands, this would be it.
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I think so. Where I live we know our police and our country sheriff is known and called Sheriff Jim. They all live around us and are our neighbors and friends. I wonder if that is so in St. Louis/Ferguson.
 
American said:
That's right it isn't, because people aren't perfect. Do you know what stereotypes are? It's common human behavior to believe in them, and the fact that enough blacks live the stereotype and enough blacks with social cloak (rappers, etc) promote the stereotype, that other begin to believe it's rampant among the black population. So when it comes to situation with police and others with authority you will find a tendency to believe it, and act on it. I'm not saying it's right, but the solution is at the source, which is the urban culture.....the culture the thrives in the ghettos. They need to stop promoting the thug image, and throw it off. If that doesn't happen nothing will change. People outside the culture can try all they want to overlook it, but that's just playing pretend. Like Cosby said, regardless of his current loss of credibility, he's write in saying they need to change their language and their attitude, and stop the droopy pants/hoodie bull****. Stubborn adherence to that culture will never fix things. Even young whites have adopted it to be cool. It's not helping.
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So you accept the fact that African Americans are not treated equally by the law, they are stopped, harassed by police at a much higher level then caucasians are, but according to you it is the person being stopped fault. How many times would it you being stopped for just walking down the street before you became truelly direspectful of the police and the general system. Equal treatment does mean just that equal treatment. Not being stopped just because you are black is not equal treatment

The responsibility is with the people doing the wrong, be it criminal commiting crimes or police stopping people just because of their ethnicity.
 
Perotista said:
Perhaps. Now I never have lived in a big city so I can't equate to that. It is my understanding Ferguson is part of St. Louis with all the problems city life involves. Even so, watching all the burning and looting going on it is very hard to have any sympathy for those causing it all. Seems they have very little respect for their own homes, stores, family, neighbors and friends or they wouldn't be doing what they are doing.

If I thought a wrong was done to me or my friends, family, neighbors, I would be attacking the ones who did it. Not my friends, family and neighbors.
Click to expand...

I imagine the difference in what you say you would do and what is happening there is that you assume that a wrong done to you would come from an individual. You would strike back against that individual. But when it is the whole of society wronging you? Who is your target? It is not merely one bad cop who shot someone that is in play here. It is decades of this, and of the various governments within this country saying that it won't act to protect black lives the way it will with white lives. Imagine that feeling, that your society and country are more willing to let you die and excuse those who kill you than some other preferred group of people, especially when that group is the majority. That doesn't lend itself to a tidy single person to oppose. The daily fear that you could be killed by an officer of your government, and the knowledge that even though the laws are written to protect everyone from being unjustly killed by these government officers, they likely won't be enforced if you are killed... that's something that comes from all sides.

That, I think, is the reality of black life in America that isn't well understood by whites. I only understand it intellectually. I can't fathom actually experiencing it. Even though I have been threatened over my religious identity, it was still isolated. I can't imagine what it would feel like to experience that every day. Much like what some of my ancestors experiencing living in countries that were far more openly hostile to Jews in centuries past. I don't live in fear of a Pogrom or something similar like many of my ancestors did. But in America, blacks live in fear of something very close to a Pogrom. Pogroms were technically illegal. Agents of the Russian government weren't allowed to trash people's homes or hurt them, but those rules were never enforced when the victims were Jews.

Lastly, I don't think that the differences between urban or rural life is at all relevant. Rural blacks are as unprotected by the law as urban blacks. The majority of the black population of this country lives in cities. It is also a misnomer that city life is somehow more filled with crime or danger than other places. That's not true at all. Everything is just packed denser. There are almost as many people in New York City as there are in Alabama and Louisiana combined. Do you really think that there is more crime, poverty, or hardship for blacks in this single city than in the 23rd and 25th largest states in the country? So when you compare city life against rural life, consider that you're comparing one city of 305 square miles against two whole states.
 
Rainman05 said:
I feel like this video hasn't been more relevant since.



Difference is that OJ was guilty and everyone knows it. But back then, DNA evidence was "a new thing" and everyone on the jury never had tertiary education so it was unknown to them how important DNA evidence is. Considering it is used today to exonerate people who have been convicted of crimes when there was no DNA evidence. But what can you do.

The video however, is pretty clear on the reaction that people had.
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What do you believe explains the radically different reactions in the OJ verdict?
 
Paschendale said:
I imagine the difference in what you say you would do and what is happening there is that you assume that a wrong done to you would come from an individual. You would strike back against that individual. But when it is the whole of society wronging you? Who is your target? It is not merely one bad cop who shot someone that is in play here. It is decades of this, and of the various governments within this country saying that it won't act to protect black lives the way it will with white lives. Imagine that feeling, that your society and country are more willing to let you die and excuse those who kill you than some other preferred group of people, especially when that group is the majority. That doesn't lend itself to a tidy single person to oppose. The daily fear that you could be killed by an officer of your government, and the knowledge that even though the laws are written to protect everyone from being unjustly killed by these government officers, they likely won't be enforced if you are killed... that's something that comes from all sides.

That, I think, is the reality of black life in America that isn't well understood by whites. I only understand it intellectually. I can't fathom actually experiencing it. Even though I have been threatened over my religious identity, it was still isolated. I can't imagine what it would feel like to experience that every day. Much like what some of my ancestors experiencing living in countries that were far more openly hostile to Jews in centuries past. I don't live in fear of a Pogrom or something similar like many of my ancestors did. But in America, blacks live in fear of something very close to a Pogrom. Pogroms were technically illegal. Agents of the Russian government weren't allowed to trash people's homes or hurt them, but those rules were never enforced when the victims were Jews.

Lastly, I don't think that the differences between urban or rural life is at all relevant. Rural blacks are as unprotected by the law as urban blacks. The majority of the black population of this country lives in cities. It is also a misnomer that city life is somehow more filled with crime or danger than other places. That's not true at all. Everything is just packed denser. There are almost as many people in New York City as there are in Alabama and Louisiana combined. Do you really think that there is more crime, poverty, or hardship for blacks in this single city than in the 23rd and 25th largest states in the country? So when you compare city life against rural life, consider that you're comparing one city of 305 square miles against two whole states.
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Excellent post - very well said. I especially like your very astute observation that the reality of black life is not understood by whites. Heck - for many whites - it is not even seen nor thought about as they are separated and distanced from it as much as they possibly can.
 
Perotista said:
I don't know, but just watching TV there is definitely too much anger, perhaps justified or not. Lack of responsibility, yes or they would be burning and looting their own stores and homes. Lack of morals, I don't know, don't live there. But it fits the the results, the burning and looting. Lack of Education, probably. How many dropped out of school and made bad decisions in their life, another question that goes unanswered.
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I teach many poor kids and their parents generally want them to do well in school but they don't seem to figure out that not doing homework, hanging out in parks smoking, playing X-Box, going to parties, drinking, etc is NOT GOOD FOR 14 YEAR OLD KIDS!!!! It is a sad cycle.
 
Paschendale said:
I imagine the difference in what you say you would do and what is happening there is that you assume that a wrong done to you would come from an individual. You would strike back against that individual. But when it is the whole of society wronging you? Who is your target? It is not merely one bad cop who shot someone that is in play here. It is decades of this, and of the various governments within this country saying that it won't act to protect black lives the way it will with white lives. Imagine that feeling, that your society and country are more willing to let you die and excuse those who kill you than some other preferred group of people, especially when that group is the majority. That doesn't lend itself to a tidy single person to oppose. The daily fear that you could be killed by an officer of your government, and the knowledge that even though the laws are written to protect everyone from being unjustly killed by these government officers, they likely won't be enforced if you are killed... that's something that comes from all sides.

That, I think, is the reality of black life in America that isn't well understood by whites. I only understand it intellectually. I can't fathom actually experiencing it. Even though I have been threatened over my religious identity, it was still isolated. I can't imagine what it would feel like to experience that every day. Much like what some of my ancestors experiencing living in countries that were far more openly hostile to Jews in centuries past. I don't live in fear of a Pogrom or something similar like many of my ancestors did. But in America, blacks live in fear of something very close to a Pogrom. Pogroms were technically illegal. Agents of the Russian government weren't allowed to trash people's homes or hurt them, but those rules were never enforced when the victims were Jews.

Lastly, I don't think that the differences between urban or rural life is at all relevant. Rural blacks are as unprotected by the law as urban blacks. The majority of the black population of this country lives in cities. It is also a misnomer that city life is somehow more filled with crime or danger than other places. That's not true at all. Everything is just packed denser. There are almost as many people in New York City as there are in Alabama and Louisiana combined. Do you really think that there is more crime, poverty, or hardship for blacks in this single city than in the 23rd and 25th largest states in the country? So when you compare city life against rural life, consider that you're comparing one city of 305 square miles against two whole states.
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In this case, my wrath would be directed towards the police, not my friends, family, neighbors if I deemed it was the police fault. I live 30 south of Atlanta in the country. My neighbors, a black guy married to a Koran woman, across the road is my oldest daughter married to a Laotian, next to them is a black couple and on and on. Rural life and if something was done to any of them, I would be up in arms. It wouldn't matter if it was done to Larry, his Korean wife and their two kids or that black couple, Paul and his wife and two kids, my daughter or anyone else around where I live.

Color, race has nothing to do with it. What it is is friends and family. One doesn't destroy their homes or mine because I get mad or Larry is mad at something someone else did. Maybe I don't understand, it all seems so asinine and senseless.
 
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