Cops Shoot Up A Minivan Full Of Kids & Crazy Mom. New Mexico

CRUE CAB said:

I guess we will just have to disagree. I don't see an issue, I saw him clearly shoot at the tire and I don't have much issue with that. Except he should have shot the side wall but he did what he felt he had to do to end the situation.

Click to expand...

You didn't clearly see ****.
His body was in the way of seeing his aim. All you did was assume.

CRUE CAB said:

I guess we will just have to disagree. I don't see an issue, I saw him clearly shoot at the tire and I don't have much issue with that. Except he should have shot the side wall but he did what he felt he had to do to end the situation.

Click to expand...

Actually thinking about it I'll give you that the first round may have been aimed at the tire since at the distance we're talking about its hard to see how he could've missed putting one though the rear window if he was intent on hitting the driver.

The second and third - there's no way to tell what he was aiming But in truth even suggesting that someone has a snowballs chance in hell of hitting one of those tires at that distance is ludicrous.

The trying to stop a fleeing vehicle angle does not pass the smell test. She wasn't going anywhere in that van loaded with kids. She simply needed to be followed.



And is it just me or does the officer who broke the window's (who I think is the original officer) body language scream being pissed off.

Gaius46 said:

Actually thinking about it I'll give you that the first round may have been aimed at the tire since at the distance we're talking about its hard to see how he could've missed putting one though the rear window if he was intent on hitting the driver.

The second and third - there's no way to tell what he was aiming But in truth even suggesting that someone has a snowballs chance in hell of hitting one of those tires at that distance is ludicrous.

The trying to stop a fleeing vehicle angle does not pass the smell test. She wasn't going anywhere in that van loaded with kids. She simply needed to be followed.



And is it just me or does the officer who broke the window's (who I think is the original officer) body language scream being pissed off.

Click to expand...

Run from a cop with a car load of kids, and he will get pissed off. They are not robots.

Excon said:

You didn't clearly see ****.
His body was in the way of seeing his aim. All you did was assume.

Click to expand...

Been to enough shooting classes to tell. But I am sure you know more about it than me. Pfffft.

CRUE CAB said:

Been to enough shooting classes to tell. But I am sure you know more about it than me. Pfffft.

Click to expand...

Which means you are assuming.
Duh!
Do you not know what the word means?

Excon said:

Which means you are assuming.
Duh!
Do you not know what the word means?

Click to expand...

I am not assuming anything. I can tell he was shooting very low. I also don't see any holes in the back of the van either. And you can clearly see he was not shooting high.

CRUE CAB said:

I am not assuming anything. I can tell he was shooting very low. I also don't see any holes in the back of the van either. And you can clearly see he was not shooting high.

Click to expand...

You can not see his aim. You are assuming.
Besides not realizing that he is just a bad shot.

CRUE CAB said:

Run from a cop with a car load of kids, and he will get pissed off. They are not robots.

Click to expand...

That doesn't mean they get to shoot at a van full of kids. They may not be robots, but they are not above the law either.

CRUE CAB said:

Run from a cop with a car load of kids, and he will get pissed off. They are not robots.

Click to expand...

BS. The police are there to enforce the law. If an officer cannot do it unemotionally, if he gets po'ed because his orders were not followed, he is dangerous and needs to find a new line of work.

CRUE CAB said:

I don't care who agrees or don't. I see nothing wrong with the officers actions.

Click to expand...

Even the Chief of NM State Police says that he has, "concerns relating to the conduct of the officer who discharged his firearm".

soot said:

Even the Chief of NM State Police says that he has, "concerns relating to the conduct of the officer who discharged his firearm".

Click to expand...

What else is he going to say? He knows the drill. He is pretty close as being a politician as anyone.

CRUE CAB said:

Run from a cop with a car load of kids, and he will get pissed off. They are not robots.

Click to expand...

Clearly, that whole bunch of robo cops in the video need a firmware/bios upgrade or just.... fired them

Good riddance

ric27 said:

Clearly, that whole bunch of robo cops in the video need a firmware/bios upgrade or just.... fired them

Good riddance

Click to expand...

Because sitting home on your couch, you could do so much better.

CRUE CAB said:

Because sitting home on your couch, you could do so much better.

Click to expand...

Be careful

You have not seen disorderly or disrespectful until you wake me up at 2 am

CRUE CAB said:

What else is he going to say? He knows the drill. He is pretty close as being a politician as anyone.

Click to expand...

If his sentiments weren't corroborated by every single cop I know, and I know more than a few and am exposed to the opinions of many through military discussion forums I participate in, then yeah, I guess you could write it off as politics.

But you're pretty much the only person I "know" who is actually defending what that cop did in shooting at the van.

Heck, I would hazard to guess that even the cop who did the shooting is kicking himself in the ass for letting his emotions run away with him and going full retard.

soot said:

If his sentiments weren't corroborated by every single cop I know, and I know more than a few and am exposed to the opinions of many through military discussion forums I participate in, then yeah, I guess you could write it off as politics.

But you're pretty much the only person I "know" who is actually defending what that cop did in shooting at the van.

Heck, I would hazard to guess that even the cop who did the shooting is kicking himself in the ass for letting his emotions run away with him and going full retard.

Click to expand...

Yea, OK.

CRUE CAB said:

Yea, OK.

Click to expand...

It takes a very special kind of person who - even knowing after the facts and thinking of it - would still promote shooting at a minivan with children in it in response to the person fleeing a traffic violation stop.

CRUE CAB said:

Yea, OK.

Click to expand...

Look, understand that I actually respect that you're the only guy on the Internet who is doggedly taking the completely untenable position of defending this cop.

Discussing controversial issues isn't all that much fun if everyone is just sitting around completely agreeing with one and other.

I salute you for actually bringing some color and life to this issue.

soot said:

Look, understand that I actually respect that you're the only guy on the Internet who is doggedly taking the completely untenable position of defending this cop.

Discussing controversial issues isn't all that much fun if everyone is just sitting around completely agreeing with one and other.

I salute you for actually bringing some color and life to this issue.

Click to expand...

My only defense that I don't see anything horribly wrong with what he did. She started it, her son escalated it and you expect 3 police officers to just stand there and do nothing.

joko104 said:

It takes a very special kind of person who - even knowing after the facts and thinking of it - would still promote shooting at a minivan with children in it in response to the person fleeing a traffic violation stop.

Click to expand...

Taking a tire out and "shooting up a minivan" are two different things. If people would quit the hyperbole about "OMG he fired on bunch of innocent children".

shot up cars - Bing Images This is shot up.

CRUE CAB said:

shot up cars - Bing Images This is shot up.

Click to expand...

You do realize that that link provides cars with 1 shot & up, and even cars with no shots, right?

Excon said:

You do realize that that link provides cars with 1 shot & up, and even cars with no shots, right?

Click to expand...

You get my point. Its the quickest I could do. I was looking for a van in Africa that has about a million holes in it and the caption is "The marines were here".

CRUE CAB said:

My only defense that I don't see anything horribly wrong with what he did. She started it, her son escalated it and you expect 3 police officers to just stand there and do nothing.

Click to expand...

Nobody is saying that the police should have done nothing, as in just stood there and waved as the vehicle sped off into the sunset.

But I'm sure you'll agree that there's a lot of white space between "nothing" on the one hand and "use of deadly force against a car filled with children" on the other.

And make no mistake, even if we eliminate the hyperbole about, "OMG he fired on bunch of innocent children", he still fired on a vehicle that contained five children.

That's a simple fact.

No, he wasn't shooting at those kids. He wasn't even shooting at the mother/driver.

But even if only firing at the vehicle he was escalating the danger to those kids logarithmically.

In case you're unaware, the fuel tank on a Kia Sedona is located immediately above and behind the left rear wheel well. In other words, above and behind the spot he was "aiming" at. It's made of plastic. If he missed the tire he was ostensibly shooting at and skipped his round off the asphalt, striking the fuel tank, it's likely that the round would still have had enough energy to strike a spark if it had continued through the tank and impacted the metal frame of the vehicle.

It's possible that he could have hit a brake line that may have led to uneven stopping at speed (and since the vehicle had already been involved in one high speed chase I think it would have been reasonable for the police to expect that if they failed to stop the vehicle by shooting it the driver may have led them on another). What if that led to a crash or a roll of the vehicle when it tried to stop?

What if he missed the tire, hit the body of the vehicle, and the round ricocheted into the back seat of the van where we now know a six-year-old was riding?

I can keep spinning hypotheticals but I think those serve the purpose.

Fortunately none of those things did happen. Of course, he didn't actually puncture the rim either, which would probably have been necessary in order to flatten the tire, so it was pretty much a waste all the way around.

But it was a very dangerous waste and one that he should have had the good sense not to gamble on given the nature of the crimes the occupants of the vehicle were allegedly guilty of.

Now, if the mother was a wanted murderer, or was being pursued because she'd committed some violent crime, then okay, I can see MAYBE taking the risk if the kids weren't in the vehicle.

If there was a real and imminent threat to the lives of one of the officers or to an innocent bystander or another motorist then I can even see taking the chance with the kids in the car.

But we're talking about a speeding ticket here and fleeing.

Even if the police had to choose letting her get away with that I still think that would have been the right decision.

But they didn't have to choose to let her go.

There were two, if not three, police vehicles on the scene. The could have chosen pursuit.

Although you joked about it earlier they could have called in a helicopter. Remember we're talking about the State Police here. They have those kinds of resources and I think using them when the alternative is recklessly jeopardizing the lives of children is more than called for.

They could have set up a road block.