Thread: Corporal punishment

I think you don't need to whoop a kid's ass all the time as long as you do it right the first time that you have to and never ever bluff with a child. When that kid learns that you mean what you say and that you have a firm hand and/or unwaivering diligence to keep them in time out etc. (whatever punishment has been chosen) for as long as you say you will when they misbehave then they will learn in about 3 days to listen to you.

The people I always see having to spank their kids are the one's who bluff about punishing them. Then it's ambiguous and the kids aren't sure if the punishment will happen or not so they start testing the waters and then only sometimes get in trouble. If they know they will get in trouble, then it's more motivation to behave.

One simple example (not that this is neccessarily "misbehavior") is when someone says, "if you don't eat your dinner then you won't get dessert." Then the kid doesn't eat the food and still gets dessert anyway. Now the next time the kid hears that line about not getting dessert then she'll know it's likely to be a bunch of b.s. and ignore it.

Originally Posted by Ryanm

I think you don't need to whoop a kid's ass all the time as long as you do it right the first time that you have to and never ever bluff with a child. When that kid learns that you mean what you say and that you have a firm hand and/or unwaivering diligence to keep them in time out etc. (whatever punishment has been chosen) for as long as you say you will when they misbehave then they will learn in about 3 days to listen to you.

The people I always see having to spank their kids are the one's who bluff about punishing them. Then it's ambiguous and the kids aren't sure if the punishment will happen or not so they start testing the waters and then only sometimes get in trouble. If they know they will get in trouble, then it's more motivation to behave.

One simple example (not that this is neccessarily "misbehavior") is when someone says, "if you don't eat your dinner then you won't get dessert." Then the kid doesn't eat the food and still gets dessert anyway. Now the next time the kid hears that line about not getting dessert then she'll know it's likely to be a bunch of b.s. and ignore it.

My father only spanked me twice my whole life causing no serious damage just red heiny, but because of that I knew it was no bluff. My parents had to use the fear of consequences because a child doesn't have the capacity yet to understand why not to do certain things. It taught me thru out life that I will always be held responsible for my actions.

Originally Posted by Sarcogito

I voted for it should be abolished in all spheres. But I’m not certain legislation is the way to go with it quite yet. I personally think it is lazy parenting and it teaches children the wrong lesson. I say that having been spanked when I was a kid and I have spanked my own kids a few times in the past as well. I was wrong to do so. While I do think it is wrong to hit our kids I would have a serious problem with taking children away from their parents for, say, a spanking on the butt or a slap on the hand. I think such separation would be far more damaging to the child than the mild corporal punishment would.

My hope is it will just become less and less common as our culture matures. I don’t think the “I was spanked as a kid and I turned out ok” argument is a valid one.

Based on what I have observed in recent years, I'd say that what masquerades as parenting today is closer to "lazy parenting".

Having been with my son since the day he was born, he is 6 years old, I will say that a spanking, when necessary, is a most effective means to get a point across when the child’s mind is filled with thought of “you are not the boss of me” or other such nonsense. I am in my boy’s life to love, guide and prepare him for life. He is not my equal, I am not his friend in as much as I am his father and I have been entrusted to be the custodian of this child’s health, safety and welfare. It is incumbent upon me to act in the best interests of my child. If someone else put there hand son my child they would be reticent to do it ever again to my child or the child of another.

I do not parent by committee; I am the first and last word when it comes to my child. I make it my business to be at his school and get to know who he is friends with, who his teachers are and watch his socialization skills and how he interacts with others. I like my boy and deeply respect him. I truly am the lucky one to have been graced with him in my life.

I would like to tell two stories:

1. I was in a book store a couple of years ago. It was winter and we both were wearing our leather jackets and our fedoras. I asked my son to come with me as it was time to leave and he was reading something and said “no”. I asked him again and my son said “No”. I said enough we are leaving and took him by his hand and started to walk. He pulled away. I get the testing the waters and am a tolerant father, but, this was over the top. I picked him up went to slap him in his butt and hit the leather of the jacket. It made a big sound. I was unaware of anyone looking and I said to him “we are going to the car now”. As it turned out I was followed by a small mob yelling at me that I was a bully and other similar comments. When I got to my car and put my son in the car a woman came up to me and said that I was aggressive. I responded no I am being a parent.

2. My son recently said to me that he wanted to be like me and got his NY Yankee hat. Why a Yankee hat? Because I wear hats and it was a gift as I live in the Boston area and come from New York. I do not think I have ever sat and watched a baseball game in my life. Well my son wanted his NY Yankee hat to wear to school I had some trepidation about this as the people in this area consider sports a religion and may give my son some grief over the hat. I picked him up after school and he threw the hat in the car and said he never wanted to wear that hat again. It turns out some teenager was taunting and intimidating my 6 year old. I spoke to a teacher I pull lunch duty with and the teacher considered this bullying due to the age and persistence of the teenager. I then spoke to the principal and she was appropriately horrified and set out to find out who the teenager was.

A few days later I went to a paint store and ordered a particular color blue. The paint guy, a big beefy man with a mechanical arm, said “oh you want Yankee blue”. I was not wearing the Yankee hat. I looked in his eyes and related what happened to my boy, the man was appalled. I needed some more paint and on the way home from school went to pick up more paint. I had my son’s Yankee hat in the car and wore mine. I told my son about the man at the paint store and that I was going to wear the hat because words that are meant to cause fear are nothing but hallow sounds. I knew my son was scared, but, I asked if he wanted to wear the hat to show that man that words meant nothing and we are not going to change because people are rude. I was very proud when my son walked up to the counter and said he was here to pick up Yankee blue paint. As we left, I thanked the paint man for working with me in teaching my son a tough lesson about life.

Life lessons require all the tools I have at my disposal whether it is an open hand on the butt or standing tall in the face of adversity.

Originally Posted by Cyrillic

Your thoughts on how should corporal punishment law look like? Should it be allowed in school or/and at home by parents.
What do you think?

I don't trust the schools to do anything right these days, but parents should be able to tan their kids asses if they **** up. Especially with kids that were as hard headed as I was.

I think you could do it in schools with very large restrictions. But in today's day and age it probably wouldn't fly with the parents because many would be like "why did you hit MY kid, My kid is the best kid ever!" even though their kid may just be a spoiled punk brat. Many times parents have to say these things in order to keep up the delusion that they're good, attentive parents.

I am a strong believer in corporal punishment and always have been. I do believe that it is MOSTLY the responsibility of the parents, but I have no problem with other authority figures (schools, police, etc....) using it as well.

As a society our children have lost almost all respect for authority. I see it in many of the children I'm around on a weekly basis. This weekend especially.... My girlfriend and I spent Saturday at a family wedding with my brother, sister in law, and their three children (ages 1, 2, & 3). For the most part those kids were well behaved; or at least as well behaved as one would expect a child of that age to be. Yesterday on our way home from the wedding we stopped to see her family. All seven of her nieces and nephews were there (ages 4 mo. to 9 years) and the scene was complete and utter chaos. Nobody listening to anything that any adult said. The main difference.... the three on Saturday have had very explicit rules and consequences laid out for them. The seven yesterday have not.

Now, there is a MAJOR difference between corporal punishment and abuse. I am in no way favoring the idea of abusing a child; nor am I suggesting that corporal discipine is the ONLY effective means of disciplining an unruly child.

Originally Posted by Ikari

I think you could do it in schools with very large restrictions. But in today's day and age it probably wouldn't fly with the parents because many would be like "why did you hit MY kid, My kid is the best kid ever!" even though their kid may just be a spoiled punk brat. Many times parents have to say these things in order to keep up the delusion that they're good, attentive parents.

Not from my perspective. While I support the rules and disciplinary measures in schools, I would have a real problem with them putting their hands on my son. Indeed, I am more of a disciplinarian than any teacher or school administration could ever be. I went to a catholic school and was thrown down a flight of stairs because my hair had a "windswept look" as the Brother informed me before my unscheduled airborne excursion. In the second grade when I would ask to go to the bathroom, as well as other boys, the teacher would smash the back of our heads into the door or give a nuggie to the top of the head. Such physicality was abusive and arbitrary.

I would never subject my child's health safety and welfare to a place that has corporal punishment.

Originally Posted by Connery

I would never subject my child's health safety and welfare to a place that has corporal punishment.

I respect your viewpoint on this, but what other recourse to these schools have with kids who do not respond to any of the less "personal" means of discipline?

Both of my parents were educators. My father taught Industrial Arts/Shop for eight and a half years on the high school level before quitting because there was no level of discipline at all in the school system. He'd send the kids to the office and they were back 10 minutes later. On the other hand, he was one of the people that the students were terribly afraid of when it came to breaking up fights (late 1970's - early 1980's) because he had no problem dragging the combatants apart by whatever means were necessary. My mother taught third grade in a Lutheran school for 5 years. They were allowed to use some light corporal punishment and in fact it was the only thing that worked with a number of her students at that time. She went back to substitute teaching in the public school system in the mid-1980's and was agast at the lack of discipline in even elementary school classrooms.

We now have rules in these schools that essentially prevent any meaningful form of discipline of these children. I agree that it's the parents responsibility for the most part, but other than throwing the kid out of school what other measures are there beyond corporal punishment to actually force these parents to deal with the issues?

Originally Posted by Connery

Not from my perspective. While I support the rules and disciplinary measures in schools, I would have a real problem with them putting their hands on my son. Indeed, I am more of a disciplinarian than any teacher or school administration could ever be. I went to a catholic school and was thrown down a flight of stairs because my hair had a "windswept look" as the Brother informed me before my unscheduled airborne excursion. In the second grade when I would ask to go to the bathroom, as well as other boys, the teacher would smash the back of our heads into the door or give a nuggie to the top of the head. Such physicality was abusive and arbitrary.

I would never subject my child's health safety and welfare to a place that has corporal punishment.

OK, there are certainly limits to what could be done. I don't know, I could see it being reasonable; but perhaps it's just best to not open the can of worms at all.