Chavez Says He May Seek 'Indefinite' Re-election - Page 23

LeftyHenry · 10-26-06, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

Ya and Russia is a Democracy and the last elections were declared "free and fair" by an international observation mission run by the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe's Office for Democratic Institutions and Human Rights.

Ya what about you're favorite and most unbiased source; Freedom House! They say there is no democracy!

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The Rettig report proves that no more than 3,000 were killed which is understandable due to the terrorist attacks committed by the MIR and the FPMR. Allende killed Chilean Democracy through his attempted Marxist takeover. Pinochet saved the Republic from communist totalitarianism.

That figure isn't correct at all and Allende WAS democracy. He was ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE. It was democracy. Listen to yourself. You have no clue what the **** you're talking about.

You keep ignoring the fact that there were 1972 elections free and fair.

You also keep ignoring the fact that democracy is not what you want it to be. It's what the people choose. What you're advocating is fascism.

Trajan Octavian Titus · 10-27-06, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry

Ya what about you're favorite and most unbiased source; Freedom House! They say there is no democracy!

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

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That figure isn't correct at all

You're saying that the most authoritive source on the human rights abuses committed by the Pinochet regime is wrong?

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and Allende WAS democracy. He was ELECTED BY THE PEOPLE.

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

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It was democracy. Listen to yourself. You have no clue what the **** you're talking about.

You keep ignoring the fact that there were 1972 elections free and fair.

You also keep ignoring the fact that democracy is not what you want it to be. It's what the people choose. What you're advocating is fascism.

No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

LeftyHenry · 10-27-06, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

Freedom House has given Russia it's lowest color; PURPLE, or unfree.

Quote:

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

You mean like Bush? Anyhow. The Chilean constitution needed to be violated if it meant providing healthcare, education, food, and shelter for the masses.

There was democracy under Allende. You're a bambling fool. Pinochet and capitalism are responsible for the death of democracy.

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No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

THERE WERE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS IN 1972 LOOK IT UP!! YOU'RE A JOKE!!

The natural right of right of the individual is aquedate;

food
water
shelter
clothing
free healthcare
free education through college
a job
and retirement

Its as simple as that.

Hatuey · 10-27-06, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

While true that Putin has tightened his control over the country it is by no means comparable to the tyranny of the totalitarian soviet regime.

You're saying that the most authoritive source on the human rights abuses committed by the Pinochet regime is wrong?

He never won a majority only a plurality just like the Nazi party in the Weimar Republic. It is not how one comes into power it is what one does with it once he has it and through his systematic violations of the Chilean Constitution Allende is responsible for the death of Chilean Democracy.

No a system which allows the majority to violate the natural right of the individual to be secure in his property is fascism. Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

Quote:

SANTIAGO, Chile - Former dictator Gen. Augusto Pinochet was indicted Friday for abuses at one of his regime's most infamous secret prisons, where President Michelle Bachelet and her mother were once held and mistreated, a lawyer said.

Judge Alejandro Solis said he would make an announcement Monday, when Pinochet "will be legally notified" of the indictment for the abuses at Villa Grimaldi.

But Eduardo Contreras, a lawyer for the relatives of the victims, confirmed the indictment Friday and said he expects the trial will progress "until Pinochet can be sentenced."

Local media published details of the indictment, saying the 90-year-old former strongman will face charges for one homicide, 36 kidnappings and 23 cases of torture at the prison used by his secret police in the first five years of his 1973-90 dictatorship. The reports said the indictment includes an order for Pinochet to remain under house arrest at his suburban Santiago mansion.

Solis, who questioned Pinochet for over an hour earlier this month, has said Pinochet's health, including his mental condition, will not prevent him from standing trial, and that "he is lucid enough to understand the consequences of what he says."

During the questioning, Solis said, Pinochet said he does not remember and is not responsible for the actions of his security forces at the secret prison where according to official reports 4,500 people were held and tortured and more than 200 disappeared.

Previous attempts to try Pinochet have failed after the courts dropped the charges on health grounds. He has been diagnosed a mild dementia resulting from several strokes. He also suffers from diabetes and arthritis and needs a pacemaker.

He is under indictment in one human rights case and on tax evasion related to his multimillion-dollar bank accounts abroad.

The case of the bank accounts was briefly complicated this week after a report that 9.2 tons of gold in the Pinochet's name had been discovered at the HSBC Bank in Hong Kong. The bank, however, said the documents showing the alleged deposit were fake.

Bachelet, then 22-year-old medical student and member of the Socialist Party, was held at Villa Grimaldi with her mother for several weeks in 1975 before being allowed to go into exile.

The president has said they were abused there, including being kept blindfolded for days, but has given no other details. Her mother said that at the Villa "I was kept for a week in a box, blindfolded, tied up, without food."

Bachelet earlier this month paid an emotional visit to the site in Santiago that is now a memorial park honoring those who suffered there.

Wow. Big Surprise.

Trajan Octavian Titus · 10-28-06, 03:04 AM

Quote:

You mean like Bush? Anyhow. The Chilean constitution needed to be violated if it meant providing healthcare, education, food, and shelter for the masses.

If providing healthcare, education etc is all that Allende did then I wouldn't have a problem with it, however, Allende's violations of the Constitution amounted to the establishment of a totalitarian Communist dicatorship. Not only that but Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to Chile.

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There was democracy under Allende. You're a bambling fool. Pinochet and capitalism are responsible for the death of democracy.

No Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

Quote:

The natural right of right of the individual is aquedate;

food
water
shelter
clothing
free healthcare
free education through college
a job
and retirement

Its as simple as that.

Those who sacricice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. Oh and Allende's policies brought nothing but economic disaster and hunger to the Chilean people.

Hatuey · 10-28-06, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

If providing healthcare, education etc is all that Allende did then I wouldn't have a problem with it, however, Allende's violations of the Constitution amounted to the establishment of a totalitarian Communist dicatorship. Not only that but Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to Chile.

No Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

Those who sacricice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. Oh and Allende's policies brought nothing but economic disaster and hunger to the Chilean people.

He was so good he's going to trial.

LeftyHenry · 10-28-06, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatuey

He was so good he's going to trial.

Do you have that in some video or audio form? I don't think Trajan knows how to read yet.

LeftyHenry · 10-28-06, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus

If providing healthcare, education etc is all that Allende did then I wouldn't have a problem with it, however, Allende's violations of the Constitution amounted to the establishment of a totalitarian Communist dicatorship. Not only that but Allende's policies brought nothing but economic hardship and mass shortages to Chile.

LOL you actually would. Did the American's violate the British constitution during their revolution?

There was democracy under Allende. I point to the 1972 elections for the hundred and sixty eight time.

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No Marxism killed Democracy in Chile.

How? Did you read my big words? I thought maybe if I wrote big, you'd understand easier but that didn't work.

You still haven't rebutted my point that there were free and fair elections in 1970 and 72.

Capitalism killed democracy in Chile. How? The majority of the people wanted socialism or state capitalism yet capitalism was forced on them against their will.

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Those who sacricice liberty for temporary security deserve neither. Oh and Allende's policies brought nothing but economic disaster and hunger to the Chilean people.

No as I've pointed out before, that was only to the upper middle class supurbanites who produced nothing.

Workers, farmers, and the masses in general got everything they needed through union supply lines.

Joby · 10-29-06, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftyHenry

You keep ignoring the fact that there were 1972 elections free and fair.

What the **** are you talking about? Most of the time we agree, but this?

There was massive amounts of false info leaked by the government to voters. The media was pretty much told to keep a lid on a massive number of stories or face the government. Huge amounts of money were paid so people could tap the phones of the opposition and steal their personal info to use against them. Reporters were threatened with their lives for even thinking about exposing the massive amounts of curruption occuring

...oh...****...you're not talking about nixons 1972 victory...or the fact that the US president used the fbi and foreign nationals to destroy the opposition...

my bad. continue as you were...

LeftyHenry · 10-29-06, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joby

What the **** are you talking about? Most of the time we agree, but this?

There was massive amounts of false info leaked by the government to voters. The media was pretty much told to keep a lid on a massive number of stories or face the government. Huge amounts of money were paid so people could tap the phones of the opposition and steal their personal info to use against them. Reporters were threatened with their lives for even thinking about exposing the massive amounts of curruption occuring

...oh...****...you're not talking about nixons 1972 victory...or the fact that the US president used the fbi and foreign nationals to destroy the opposition...

my bad. continue as you were...

LOL the sad part is that TOT probably believes that Nixon's elections were free and fair

while Chile's 1972 election wasn't because the people didn't elect the people he agrees with